Spine Dumb, I am
02-08-2003, 08:14 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Detroit
Posts: 858
Spine Dumb, I am
So I'm having some issues getting the Mighty Mite to lock on. First the setup...
MM @ 63#, 28" (+/-)
MZE
C.X. Terminator selects 4560 @ 28.75 & 100gr point for 390(+/-)grains
Release/noloop
Shooting 3spot (vegas) league and I cannot get my arrows to stay consistent. I pull my partners arrow on accident (Cabela's carbon hunters spined for a 60#er) and '"X". Just a fluke right...I shoot his next round..."X","X","X". ..WTF!! His arrows are at 29.25, not sure of the weight but????
Am I overspined? What are the sypmtoms of an overspined arrow? Could this be the problem or is it something else?
Let me know what ya'll think before I go buy a dozen of 9 different kinds of arrows, miss my mortgage payment and have to move into a van down by the river with the wife, youngun' and runt beagle!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Trushot }}------>
MM @ 63#, 28" (+/-)
MZE
C.X. Terminator selects 4560 @ 28.75 & 100gr point for 390(+/-)grains
Release/noloop
Shooting 3spot (vegas) league and I cannot get my arrows to stay consistent. I pull my partners arrow on accident (Cabela's carbon hunters spined for a 60#er) and '"X". Just a fluke right...I shoot his next round..."X","X","X". ..WTF!! His arrows are at 29.25, not sure of the weight but????
Am I overspined? What are the sypmtoms of an overspined arrow? Could this be the problem or is it something else?
Let me know what ya'll think before I go buy a dozen of 9 different kinds of arrows, miss my mortgage payment and have to move into a van down by the river with the wife, youngun' and runt beagle!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Trushot }}------>
02-08-2003, 10:39 PM
#3
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Manitowoc WI USA
Posts: 79
RE: Spine Dumb, I am
I just ran you through 'The Archery Program' and show this arrow off the chart weak! I reccon this is your problem. I tried lowering your draw weight to 55 pounds and 65 grain tips and it only helps get your arrow to red/yellow weak.
Perhaps a better selection for arrow would be the 300 with 75 grain tips.
Happy Shooting!
Get with the Program!
>>>------Tony Virnoche------>>>
>>>---The Archery Program--->>>
Perhaps a better selection for arrow would be the 300 with 75 grain tips.
Happy Shooting!
Get with the Program!
>>>------Tony Virnoche------>>>
>>>---The Archery Program--->>>
02-09-2003, 05:24 AM
#4
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Detroit
Posts: 858
RE: Spine Dumb, I am
Russ,
Paper tune yes,group no. I'm not real sure on how to "group tune" other than the obvious...tune till your smacking nocks and adjust the sights from there. Does that about sum it up? If so that's, essentially, what I'm having problems with.
TAP,
Seriously?? I must have been drunk when I looked at the chart because I thought , if anything , i'd be over. I even added 5lbs to the actual draw weight(thanks Phil and DoninVa)to make sure I wasn't under and because I know the Bowtech's are aggressive. Simple enough though... I'll try the lighter tip and see where I stand.
Thanks...I'll let ya'll know after I play some more.
Trushot }}------>
Paper tune yes,group no. I'm not real sure on how to "group tune" other than the obvious...tune till your smacking nocks and adjust the sights from there. Does that about sum it up? If so that's, essentially, what I'm having problems with.
TAP,
Seriously?? I must have been drunk when I looked at the chart because I thought , if anything , i'd be over. I even added 5lbs to the actual draw weight(thanks Phil and DoninVa)to make sure I wasn't under and because I know the Bowtech's are aggressive. Simple enough though... I'll try the lighter tip and see where I stand.
Thanks...I'll let ya'll know after I play some more.
Trushot }}------>
02-09-2003, 09:50 AM
#5
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Blissfield MI USA
Posts: 5,293
RE: Spine Dumb, I am
Kelly, take 3 of your arrows over to Jeff's(pine grove) and have them cut down some, that will make them stiffer. You are shooting 29 inch arrows with a 28 inch draw and muzzy rest (over draw). You have plenty of room to play with I am sure. Did you see the arrows I was shooting thursday? These suckers are only 22 1/2 inches long! They fly like darts any way especially at 20 yards. All my misses were from me getting slap happy with the trigger or freezing below the target or in most cases both!
How did you and Paul shoot with those cabela's arrows? He put some of them on the arrow spinner and they were pretty whacked for the most part. May not make much difference indoors, but I would be leary to screw a fixed head on one.
Also consider your arrows overall, I don't think it is the arrows myself, but I haven't seen any of the guys shooting in the 590's using 50 dollars carbon arrows. Like I said, it probably has nothing to do with the arrows, but they are cheap for a reason. They are probably not that consistant from arrow to arrow. I would suggest that if you want cheap arrows go to aluminums, they are much better arrows for the money, at least from a quality stand point. Just my opinion on that one though.
If I had to guess I would say most of it boils down to shooting a short fast aggressive cammed bow with an overdraw on it, shooting a triggered type release. Let's be honest, that's not the most forgiving set up you can have for target shooting. Not that it can't be done, it just would take great form and lot's of practice. I would be willing bet most peoples problems stem from some sort of form problem, or some form of target panic. I know Alan tried to shoot last week with a Proline Mountain 30 like Jeff shoots, and he didn't do very well compared to his target bow. Could have been in his head too, archery is a very mental sport I have discovered.
Keep plugging at it and remember to have fun. Most of us are there to goof off and fling some arrows around. I don't even look at the scores most of the time. If you start getting stressed out and worried about it, then it won't be fun anymore. What is the point in that? If you wanted to be stressed out you could work more hours, or stay home with the family, right.
Try cutting a few arrows down though to make them stiffer and see what happens. Maybe Tony could tell you what length would make them spine right. As long they are not so short they draw past the rest they will work fine. You have an overdraw type rest, you might as well use it right, that's what I did. Turning down your draw weight wouldn't hurt either. It might make that draw curve seem a little smoother and be easier to shoot. You don't need the speed and Ke to kill a vegas target<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>.
Good luck and see you thurs
Paul
How did you and Paul shoot with those cabela's arrows? He put some of them on the arrow spinner and they were pretty whacked for the most part. May not make much difference indoors, but I would be leary to screw a fixed head on one.
Also consider your arrows overall, I don't think it is the arrows myself, but I haven't seen any of the guys shooting in the 590's using 50 dollars carbon arrows. Like I said, it probably has nothing to do with the arrows, but they are cheap for a reason. They are probably not that consistant from arrow to arrow. I would suggest that if you want cheap arrows go to aluminums, they are much better arrows for the money, at least from a quality stand point. Just my opinion on that one though.
If I had to guess I would say most of it boils down to shooting a short fast aggressive cammed bow with an overdraw on it, shooting a triggered type release. Let's be honest, that's not the most forgiving set up you can have for target shooting. Not that it can't be done, it just would take great form and lot's of practice. I would be willing bet most peoples problems stem from some sort of form problem, or some form of target panic. I know Alan tried to shoot last week with a Proline Mountain 30 like Jeff shoots, and he didn't do very well compared to his target bow. Could have been in his head too, archery is a very mental sport I have discovered.
Keep plugging at it and remember to have fun. Most of us are there to goof off and fling some arrows around. I don't even look at the scores most of the time. If you start getting stressed out and worried about it, then it won't be fun anymore. What is the point in that? If you wanted to be stressed out you could work more hours, or stay home with the family, right.
Try cutting a few arrows down though to make them stiffer and see what happens. Maybe Tony could tell you what length would make them spine right. As long they are not so short they draw past the rest they will work fine. You have an overdraw type rest, you might as well use it right, that's what I did. Turning down your draw weight wouldn't hurt either. It might make that draw curve seem a little smoother and be easier to shoot. You don't need the speed and Ke to kill a vegas target<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>.
Good luck and see you thurs
Paul
02-09-2003, 10:13 AM
#6
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Blissfield MI USA
Posts: 5,293
RE: Spine Dumb, I am
One more thing Kelly, I don't even need a program to tell you your arrows are weak. I just re-read your post and noticed you were using 45/60's with 63lbs of draw weight. That number designation (4560) means the arrrow spines from 45 lbs to 60 lbs, normally at 28 inches with a 100 grn tip. That puts you a bit weak from the get go, but then consider you are using a bit longer arrow (probably not enough to matter though), out of a bow with a very aggressive cam system. Like I have said before, bowtech needs it's own column on the chart. There should be Mild cam, Hard cam, and BOWTECH!! .
Cutting them down a little and dropping some poundage should make them better. That is not going to garuantee you will shoot better though. My 1714's were a bit weak before I cut them down, they still grouped pretty good, just looked a bit funky on the way to the target is all. Broad heads are where you are going to see spine issues really show up and make you pull your hair out.
Again, good luck and I hope you get things figured out.
Paul
P.S. I forgot to tell you, you can e-mail me if you want to BS or something. I was going to give you my address but I forgot to. It is [email protected] . You know your restraunt is right down the road from the factory I work in! Same goes for Paul, just what I need is another freind named Paul, I already have two<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> .
Cutting them down a little and dropping some poundage should make them better. That is not going to garuantee you will shoot better though. My 1714's were a bit weak before I cut them down, they still grouped pretty good, just looked a bit funky on the way to the target is all. Broad heads are where you are going to see spine issues really show up and make you pull your hair out.
Again, good luck and I hope you get things figured out.
Paul
P.S. I forgot to tell you, you can e-mail me if you want to BS or something. I was going to give you my address but I forgot to. It is [email protected] . You know your restraunt is right down the road from the factory I work in! Same goes for Paul, just what I need is another freind named Paul, I already have two<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> .
02-09-2003, 07:35 PM
#7
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Detroit
Posts: 858
RE: Spine Dumb, I am
Thanks Guys....4560...Duh! I need to where a helmet to shoot! I can't believe I didn't put 2 and 2 together! I played with it today and found the little set screw on the Muzzy that hits the plate to stop the rest had worked it's way out and was almost on the floor resulting in the rest stopping inconsistently. I also turned the poundage to an even 60# and put on a 75 grain tip and was tapping them good again.
Not before I went and bought some alum's though! I picked up a dozen with the shaft diameter of a Pool cue! I'll get them cut and fletched tomorrow and see how they do. They're half the size of the 10 spot already so it should be interesting.
Paul,
Yeah his arrows are a little sloppy. That's why I was so pissed! I pulled one of his on accident and tagged the "X". I looked and I was...well I'll try another. All three dead on! And I'm shooting slop with mine! I think I've got them worked out though...we'll see on thursday.
Trushot }}------>
Not before I went and bought some alum's though! I picked up a dozen with the shaft diameter of a Pool cue! I'll get them cut and fletched tomorrow and see how they do. They're half the size of the 10 spot already so it should be interesting.
Paul,
Yeah his arrows are a little sloppy. That's why I was so pissed! I pulled one of his on accident and tagged the "X". I looked and I was...well I'll try another. All three dead on! And I'm shooting slop with mine! I think I've got them worked out though...we'll see on thursday.
Trushot }}------>
