Pinwheel, et al, tune for high left tear?
11-01-2002, 03:31 PM
#1
Nontypical Buck
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Pinwheel, et al, tune for high left tear?
How does one accomplish this when using a drop away rest? I had always figured spine match was more necessary with a fixed rest because you wanted the arrow to flex off the rest the same way each shot. I can see how you could tweak a fixed rest to manipulate the "11:00 tail-high left tear approx 1/4-1/2" or so" that is reported as desireable for great groups, but is this possible with a true drop away rest that doesn't impart any effect on the arrow? What do you do in this case, manipulate tip weight to fine tune spine?
Edited by - Rangeball on 11/01/2002 16:33:27
Edited by - Rangeball on 11/01/2002 16:33:27
11-01-2002, 04:04 PM
#2
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Sioux Falls SD USA
Posts: 235
RE: Pinwheel, et al, tune for high left tear?
I'm by no means an expert but I tell you what - I had a heckuva time trying to do that with my MZE - luckily the Trophy Taker was closer so there was less moving to do...
I never got there - I was able to move it some but with the MZE on a PRO-38 I had to go about nock 1.5inches high to get a EVEN tear - vs nock low...
That's when the pro-tuner went on & the MZE went to the bottom of the tackle box.
Aim small miss small
I never got there - I was able to move it some but with the MZE on a PRO-38 I had to go about nock 1.5inches high to get a EVEN tear - vs nock low...
That's when the pro-tuner went on & the MZE went to the bottom of the tackle box.
Aim small miss small
11-02-2002, 05:41 AM
#3
Typical Buck
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RE: Pinwheel, et al, tune for high left tear?
All rests can be tuned to give the 11:00 tear, unfortunately with fall-aways it is much more difficult because the arrow is only held in correct launching position for a short amount of time, and it also does nothing to help with the arrow paradox like you get with a launcher blade or prongs or whatever supporting part of the arrow which is much more forgiving of spine variances and more widely tunable. This support can also be adjusted with spring tension, which also helps cover a wider range of shaft combinations. Therefore it is much more critical when it comes to choosing correctly spined arrows for fall-away rests and getting best groups at distance. Whatever you gain in the fletching-contact problem dept,(the original design of a fall-away was to improve this for those who could not tune correctly) you give up in tunability with them IMO. I've tried many fall-aways over the years, and always come back to a rest that is more readily tunable and gives consistent accuracy and performance. JMHO. I must say that in recent years alot of people are enjoying fall-aways, so whatever "floats your boat" is the best"standard" and "politically correct" answer here.....<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
Having said that, in this case you'll have to play with the dwell on your rest (time before it falls) and normal height and centershot adjustments to get a 11:00 tear(if you are right handed and shoot release) with a fall-away IF you have correctly spined arrows. A crank or two up or down on poundage will help in some instances to "bring it in" also.(helps correct spine) Good luck! Pinwheel 12
PS- If that doesn't work, just do as others of us have, toss it in the "annex" and go back to what works! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
Edited by - Pinwheel 12 on 11/02/2002 08:21:07
Having said that, in this case you'll have to play with the dwell on your rest (time before it falls) and normal height and centershot adjustments to get a 11:00 tear(if you are right handed and shoot release) with a fall-away IF you have correctly spined arrows. A crank or two up or down on poundage will help in some instances to "bring it in" also.(helps correct spine) Good luck! Pinwheel 12
PS- If that doesn't work, just do as others of us have, toss it in the "annex" and go back to what works! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
Edited by - Pinwheel 12 on 11/02/2002 08:21:07
11-04-2002, 07:55 AM
#4
Nontypical Buck
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RE: Pinwheel, et al, tune for high left tear?
Ok, so now I'm confused... I thought the whole deal with drop aways was in addition to allowing total fletch clearance, it made spine less of an issue, not moreso... Muzzy even shows several different spined arrows being shot on their video, and I think they do at their demonstration booths as well.
Is this really an issue to consider on a true hunting set up where shots are limited to 30 yards? Assuming arrows are properly matched, say Accs for instance, and a drop away is shooting bullet holes, would you expect acceptable groupings at 30 yards?
Also, what is so magical about the 11 o'clock tear if all you are trying to do is give the arrow something to recover from. Wouldn't any slightly out of perfect setting do the same?
I guess I'm having trouble understanding why spine, straightness and weight matched arrows wouldn't fly to the same spot from a bullet hole tuned bow...
Edited by - Rangeball on 11/04/2002 10:50:00
Is this really an issue to consider on a true hunting set up where shots are limited to 30 yards? Assuming arrows are properly matched, say Accs for instance, and a drop away is shooting bullet holes, would you expect acceptable groupings at 30 yards?
Also, what is so magical about the 11 o'clock tear if all you are trying to do is give the arrow something to recover from. Wouldn't any slightly out of perfect setting do the same?
I guess I'm having trouble understanding why spine, straightness and weight matched arrows wouldn't fly to the same spot from a bullet hole tuned bow...
Edited by - Rangeball on 11/04/2002 10:50:00
11-04-2002, 11:15 AM
#5
Typical Buck
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RE: Pinwheel, et al, tune for high left tear?
Range-
For all intents and purposes, yes, your setup will be fine at realistic hunting distances (20-30 yds) with a fall away. As far as them demonstrating how it is "easier" to use a variety of spined shafts with a fall away, I feel that is simply a marketing ploy, I'd like to see that one for myself cause I'd have to ask alot of questions, ones they would not want to hear! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>. As stated, any rest can be tuned given correctly spined arrows, but a standard rest IMHO will cater to a wider range of spines because it is more adjustable and you have the added dimension of adjustable spring-tension support. The only real thing you can adjust on the fall aways is the dwell. (but not the tension)
The "magical" tear has been sought after for many years, and many, many techs and top archers long before me came to the conclusion that the 11:00 1/4-1/2" tail high left is the most consistently accurate setup for a right-handed archer who shoots with correct form and a release. I personally have come to the same conclusions, as I always go "the extra mile" in my tuning. Most guys do not, and will find a softball or baseball sized group at 20 yds sufficient and therefore can tune to a bullet hole and not group-tune or supertune or whatever and still be somewhat accurate even tho they may be "knucklballing" or getting a false tear even! At 20 yds, my groups better all be touching. This is what I've come to expect from any of my setups. At 40 yds, I like them the size of a golfball or slightly bigger if I'm shooting well. Some may say such tuning and grouping is a bit "extreme", but I say it's best to try to get yourself and your equipment as accurate together as you can be. Could make the difference between a quick, clean, harvest and a long, nail-biting search or even the loss of a wounded animal, the way I see it.
Plus it's nice when in competition to be able to score at least as well as your opponents!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Seriously, it's all up to what you feel comfortable with, and how you want to do things. There is no "set in stone" way, however I do feel that after having so many top archers and techs coming to the same conclusions it may be wise to try it with an open mind and see. Might just gain you a few points, or a better shot on your next animal. Good luck, good shooting, Pinwheel 12
For all intents and purposes, yes, your setup will be fine at realistic hunting distances (20-30 yds) with a fall away. As far as them demonstrating how it is "easier" to use a variety of spined shafts with a fall away, I feel that is simply a marketing ploy, I'd like to see that one for myself cause I'd have to ask alot of questions, ones they would not want to hear! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>. As stated, any rest can be tuned given correctly spined arrows, but a standard rest IMHO will cater to a wider range of spines because it is more adjustable and you have the added dimension of adjustable spring-tension support. The only real thing you can adjust on the fall aways is the dwell. (but not the tension)
The "magical" tear has been sought after for many years, and many, many techs and top archers long before me came to the conclusion that the 11:00 1/4-1/2" tail high left is the most consistently accurate setup for a right-handed archer who shoots with correct form and a release. I personally have come to the same conclusions, as I always go "the extra mile" in my tuning. Most guys do not, and will find a softball or baseball sized group at 20 yds sufficient and therefore can tune to a bullet hole and not group-tune or supertune or whatever and still be somewhat accurate even tho they may be "knucklballing" or getting a false tear even! At 20 yds, my groups better all be touching. This is what I've come to expect from any of my setups. At 40 yds, I like them the size of a golfball or slightly bigger if I'm shooting well. Some may say such tuning and grouping is a bit "extreme", but I say it's best to try to get yourself and your equipment as accurate together as you can be. Could make the difference between a quick, clean, harvest and a long, nail-biting search or even the loss of a wounded animal, the way I see it.
Plus it's nice when in competition to be able to score at least as well as your opponents!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Seriously, it's all up to what you feel comfortable with, and how you want to do things. There is no "set in stone" way, however I do feel that after having so many top archers and techs coming to the same conclusions it may be wise to try it with an open mind and see. Might just gain you a few points, or a better shot on your next animal. Good luck, good shooting, Pinwheel 12
11-04-2002, 12:18 PM
#6
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Potsdam NY USA
Posts: 28
RE: Pinwheel, et al, tune for high left tear?
If it's an 11:00 tear for a right-handed archer, what is is for left handed?
1:00 (opposite to the right) ?
5:00 (opposite diagnaly) ?
7:00 (opposite vertically) ?
I'm left-handed and in the process of tuning my MZE right now. I've found that it takes quite some time to get correct.
1:00 (opposite to the right) ?
5:00 (opposite diagnaly) ?
7:00 (opposite vertically) ?
I'm left-handed and in the process of tuning my MZE right now. I've found that it takes quite some time to get correct.
11-04-2002, 12:40 PM
#7
Nontypical Buck
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RE: Pinwheel, et al, tune for high left tear?
Arrow Guy, my understanding is you would want a 1 o'clock tear if you are left handed...
So Pinwheel, what do you think of the new breed of containment type rests, such as the whisker biscuit, GKF shootout, Bodoodle zapper, etc? Can they be properly tuned to achieve the 11 o'clock tear, or does the added arrow won't fall off feature interfere with this?
So Pinwheel, what do you think of the new breed of containment type rests, such as the whisker biscuit, GKF shootout, Bodoodle zapper, etc? Can they be properly tuned to achieve the 11 o'clock tear, or does the added arrow won't fall off feature interfere with this?
11-04-2002, 03:12 PM
#8
Typical Buck
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RE: Pinwheel, et al, tune for high left tear?
Boy, Rangeball, you sure know how to get me in hot water with the manufacturers!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> But, since you did ask, I will answer this one.....
I do not personally care for them. I find no problem with any rest that SUPPORTS,(and I actually promote such rests as you know) but I do not care for any that HINDER, or even ALTER arrow flight. Whiskers, rubber funnels, etc. have to have the arrow pass THROUGH some sort of media other than air, and this is where I feel precision accuracy can definately be lost, especially with a helical fletch.(which I also promote as you know) Notice I said PRECISION accuracy! For those shooting at a volleyball or even a softball at 20 yds, sure, they may work just fine, a piece of felt on the shelf used to work well enough on my old recurve for that, too. But IMO you cannot get accuracy at distance like you can with other rests, undue fletching contact simply won't allow it.
Rests like the zapper only have to contend with fletching contact with the blades of the rest. But if set-up correctly and you can get them to shoot without any contact,(like most rests) no problem. They SUPPORT, without the arrow having to pass through anything other than air. That's it.
Just my own thoughts, Pinwheel 12
I do not personally care for them. I find no problem with any rest that SUPPORTS,(and I actually promote such rests as you know) but I do not care for any that HINDER, or even ALTER arrow flight. Whiskers, rubber funnels, etc. have to have the arrow pass THROUGH some sort of media other than air, and this is where I feel precision accuracy can definately be lost, especially with a helical fletch.(which I also promote as you know) Notice I said PRECISION accuracy! For those shooting at a volleyball or even a softball at 20 yds, sure, they may work just fine, a piece of felt on the shelf used to work well enough on my old recurve for that, too. But IMO you cannot get accuracy at distance like you can with other rests, undue fletching contact simply won't allow it.
Rests like the zapper only have to contend with fletching contact with the blades of the rest. But if set-up correctly and you can get them to shoot without any contact,(like most rests) no problem. They SUPPORT, without the arrow having to pass through anything other than air. That's it.
Just my own thoughts, Pinwheel 12
11-04-2002, 03:15 PM
#9
Nontypical Buck
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RE: Pinwheel, et al, tune for high left tear?
That's good news, cause I'm looking at the GKF shoot out rest pretty hard right now. I like the fact that the arrow won't fall off in a hunting situation, but can be fine tuned per your recommendations... Are you familiar with it? What say ye?
11-04-2002, 03:24 PM
#10
Typical Buck
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RE: Pinwheel, et al, tune for high left tear?
I haven't yet tried the shootout, but I can say that GKF makes excellent products. I have been using their rests for many years and have always found them to be more than capable of handling the task at hand. I don't believe you could go wrong in using one. Pinwheel 12
