timbercruiser

There were plenty of slaves and slave owners in the North.

vaspence

As a southerner, Reswire you lost me with the last post.Slavery in a dog hunting post? wtf? Edited some out after reading the below that Res is from the south.

On a different note, if the guys hunting near you are standing on the side of the road with loaded guns and don't own, lease or have permission to be there, any game warden or sheriff worth his salt will write them for trespassing. If not, not alot to complain about.

Legitimate points are being made about land parcels getting smaller and also the influx of "come here's" to the rural areas. IF it gets to the point that hunt clubs are reduced to leasing/owning less than 100 acre parcels I can see some legislative changes happening and even then more than likely on a county by county basis. But I truly doubt it will happen wholesale anytime soon.

I agree this is going to be one of those posts where the pasions run deep on both sides and we aren't going to reconcile anyone to another's point of view. I'll leave you with this, I support everyone's right to hunt in the manner they enjoy, dogs, still hunt, hell with a sling shot if it works for you and it's legal.And I wish you all the best in the upcoming season, good luck and be safe.

reswire

Timbercruiser, I know, I know. My Great,Great, Grandfather owned 3 plantations and over 60 slaves. My grandfather said he was the meanest som-bitchthat ever walked. I know stubborn first hand, and try my damnest not to emulate my forefathers. (Seldom works as you can see.)

Although not a history professor, I have studied American history as well as local history while in college.
Even free blacks owned slaves in south as well as whites.Not nearly as frequently, obviously, butin themore affluent arena of free blacks, slavery was acceptable even to them. Mypoint is not accusatory, merely meant to reflect on past and current values as well asgive reference and meaningto the word "tradition". I am a Southerner by birth and choice, and fully understand the social fabric and values of my area and region. I guesswhen people fromOhioaccuse aVirginia ciitizen of grandstandingwith an opinion of Virginia law, my Southern dander gets a little ruffled.I love dog hunting as muchas anyone, I just get totally annoyed when some clubs continue to break the law every weekend.They are causing me to loose my sport and it pisses me off.

daleh

Southern Tradition and Dog Hunting only leads to one thing Bird Dogs. Deer Dogs are something that no Plantation Owner ever had or ever will. The Southern Tradition that folks think of a deer dog hunting didn't come about to the days of tenant houses and trailer parks. I for one would love to keep that out of our history. Deer hunting with dogs is not a gentleman's sport. Any practice involving destruction of another persons property along with trespassing should be held as what it is. "Inconsiderate people participating in an illegal activity" I know some deer doggers are ethical hunters. Just have never seen nor heard of one, but you must be out there somewhere. Wonder Why This is Being Outlawed? Deer Doggers have destroyed the reputation of Sportsman in ever county and in every state. Years ago just about anyone could ask permission to hunt on a farmers land. Now they tell you to go away. Can't you read the Sign.

VA5326

This is not a analogy........... it's opinion based on half truths. Is there a moderator around to lock this thread? I'd suggest you go back to school and do a little more research. How do you know the attitudes of most clubs? Obviously, you haven't hunted with my club.

Slo-Pitch

have to disagree there. Slavery was not a tradition, it was a necessity of a large farm plantation of the time,nothing personal, slaves were farm equipment to plantation owners, nothing more, bought and sold just as farm equipment is today. In the north there were undoubtly less slaves than in the south but that was because the north had become industrealized (SP) and had no need for slaves, the south however was mostly still agricultural and that was thier livleyhood they were fighting for. Just about anyone who farmed and had enough money/land in thecountry (north and south)had slaves. White people owned black slaves, black people owned black slaves, black people owned white slaves. Slavery had nothing to do with being black it had to do with being sold into slavery for whatever reason.
I am glad we can have a civilized conversation about this.

On to the dog hunting...
I agree that the hound hunters as a majority are shooting themselves in the foot with the way they do things, only problem I have with that is, they are also shooting MY foot. I also agree that it will be a thing of the past within the next 10 years, either because of a law or simply because of the fact that all the large tracts are being sold and split up, one or the other will end hound hunting in VA. BUT... we as hunters need to stick together no matter what side of the fence we are on about this issue. If any of the anti groups win a fight against any part of hunting they are winning a fight against hunting as a whole.

Lets have a good season folks...

nchawkeye

Have to disagree on this....Deer were hunting with dogs during our Colonial times.....Read the book by Robert Bass "The Swamp Fox"...Read "The Last of the Mohicans"...There are many references to dog hunting during these times...

nchawkeye

Man, I hate it when this comes up...This is like discussing alcohol there are good and bad things that can happen....

I don't mind 6-7 guys getting together with beagles, having one walk through a cutover and pushing deer out to standers, picking up the dogs and moving to another area, kinda like rabbit hunting, I've done it and done properly it is enjoyable and safe....Deer hunting like this has a very rich and enjoyable tradition, especially here in the South......

What I do not like is....15-20 pickups of guys with CB radios, a seat on top of the dog box so a guy with a 30-06 semi-auto can take pot shots as a deer runs across a field...They spot light deer down east to see where bucks are feeding at night (legal in eastern NC, before 11:00pm as long as no gun is in truck)...Then the next morning, they let 12-15 black and tans out and if the deer crosses a highway they are lined up, just off the road with their shotguns (and rifle close at hand)....And another 12-15 black and tans ready to throw on the buck if they see him....We own 3 family farms in this area, we don't live on the farm, these guys know it....Not only will they drive around gates, through fields, drop off a guy (or 3) with radios, they will also drop their dogs off beside the road, put them in our cutover and try to run deer off our property to property that they can access....

These guys have no concern for others property, because all they own is a pickup, deer hounds and a shotgun....They know that you don't want to confront 15 rednecks with a shotgun....The CBs are used to alert each other when the game warden is near, repeated calls to the game warden have done no good, because he is usually 3-4 counties away....We have 4 different clubs in the county, 3 are this way...When you talk to the president of the club, he says he will talk to his guys or blames it on one of the other clubs...Nothing is ever done, ....Its absolutely ridiculous to own 850 acres of prime land and never know if you can get in a quiet hunt or not because of these poachers.......

Trespassing laws in NC are too lax and these guys know this....By the time you know they are on your land, they are gone....Crops are run over, paths torn up by 4wd trucks and several deer hounds left until they get picked up.....Of course its standard practice to take tracking collars off non producing hounds during the last week of the season and leaving them in the woods to fend for themselves....Last year, I went home for a relaxing few days of turkey season....3 deer dogs ran a pack of does by my setup about 8:00 in the morning (in April!!!!)....

That's my take on dog hunting............

nchawkeye

Retriever...You reminded me of another fact...Most of these dogs have tracking collars...Many times when I happen to be hunting on our farms and the dogs come through there are 3-4 pickups parked on the road with the antenna out, tracking the dogs....Even though this frustrates me, and has for over 35 years, I have never shot a deer dog, in fact, it is a felony in NC to do so and with family still in the area and brother owning a business there, I am not going to go that far......Now, I have been considering setting coyote traps, just want to insure it works on canines only...

And you are correct, it has been beaten to death, and like the baiting issue, I don't usually respond because by the time I see, its up to 6 pages and nobody is reading, just argueing and determined that they are "right".....Funny thing is, it seems most that are dead set against either live in an area where it isn't legal and have no experience, makes me wonder why, if they have no experience with, why they answer.....

btw....I didn't answer the poll, guess I need to see..."It's fine by me, if legal as long as you have 2,000 continuous acres and keep their dogs within that area"....In fact, I'd like to see a $50.00 bounty on deer dogs caught on your property....I bet those good old boys would think twice then....

Now...Let's see who will be first to say..."Dogs can't read posted signs"...
Or "Dogs don't know where property boundaries are"....I say, if you can't keep them on your property, keep them in the dog box....

nchawkeye

Romans had slaves...The American Indians had slaves....

The first slaves that were bought into the Colonies came in 1619...Into Jamestown, captured from a Spanish ship by pirates...The Spanish had used them for years in South America to mine for gold...Spain was THE world power in the late 1500s and 1600s, because of this gold...Both the English settlers at Roanoke and Jamestown were more scared of the Spanish attacking than the local Indians (just like they did the French in Florida in 1565, and wiped them out)....

These first 24 slaves bought into Jamestown were from the coast of Africa, where they had been bought by the local tribes, they even had slaves...England had recently given 100 acres of land to any planter that had been in Virgina since 1616...Spanish tobacco was being raised and shipped back to London, where there were 7,000 shops to buy tobacco...During these times, tobacco was used as money, it is what saved Jamestown...The investors were ready to pull out, because no gold or silver had been discovered...What many don't realize is that many people that came to the New World were also sold into being an indentured servant for a period of time...

Just like customs of burning at the stake, beheading, bleeding patients to purge the body of bad blood, hanging, scalping and many more customs, slavery was wrong...It should have been abolished when the 1st Continental Comgress met in Philladelphia in 1775....But Boston was the hotbed of the American Revolution and the Northern States knew they had to have the support of the South to win the war...This is why a Virginian, George Washington, a slave holder was put at the head of the American Army, so the South would support the Revolution.....

See....Its the Norths fault that slavery endured for another 85 years or so....