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Do different cases matter?

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Do different cases matter?

Old 05-13-2014, 06:43 PM
  #21  
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I use Lapua Cases, for my match grade reloads. I weigh each case, check the highest and lowest weights for load density/ case capacity.
Lapua is one of the most constant I have found. That is the case to case in a lot. Lots can and very a great deal.

I do not use mix cased for matches, for the reasons stated above. Different cases and the very slight differences does make a difference in shot to shot accuracy. But I do have mixed case ammo for plinking. All Max loads in the manuals are still well below what case manufactures build their cases to with stand. The cases may not be the best but they are all made using and within certain safety specs.
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Old 05-13-2014, 08:33 PM
  #22  
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New Reloaders are people, and people make mistakes quite often when they don't even realize it's a problem. Around 6-7yrs ago I visited a friend to check out his new home, and I noticed his new reloading equipment. I saw some of his fired brass to be deprimed and half of them had flat primers, some torched out around the primers, and some had bulging at the case head. I asked why he was loading them so hot after seeing those pressure signs. He said he thought that the flattened primers and torches were because he must not know how to run his hand primer correctly and probably wasn't doing it right, and that he figured the few bulges - THAT HE HAD NOT NOTICED - were because he was using cheap brass.

Naturally, I asked what he was charging, he was WAY over max loads. When I asked why, his response was that his velocities on the chrony weren't getting to what the manual said, so he kept putting more powder in!!! He forgot to note that his barrel was 8" shorter than his manuals test barrel!!! Thank God it all held together for him!!

So let's talk in that context... New reloaders, God bless them, are ignorant. They're still learning. We've all been there.

Originally Posted by bronko22000 View Post
OK non-believers let's look at the manuals. Take the .270 Win for example using IMR4350

Lyman 46th ed: 130 gr Spitzer; Max 54.5 (Case Winchester)
Hornady Vol II: 130 gr Spire; Max 57.6 (Case Western)

So based on my initial post of not loading to maximum charge.
So, say I'm a new reloader, and not knowing any better I heard from some dude on this forum that I can mix and match any brass. I have the Hornady manual and Winchester brass. Using your advice, I might find myself loading a 55.5grn load in my "load workup", which is 2 full grains under a max load, or a touch less than 4% under max. However, that 55.5grn load is a FULL GRAIN over the max load for the Winchester brass. Since I'm a new reloader, I only bought ONE manual, because some guy online said I only needed one (another recent thread), and I didn't realize that I was exceeding the max load for my particular case.

He11, let's make it even worse, another part of this thread said I could mix in different primers, and since there's a primer shortage going on, I couldn't find the WLR's that the Hornady manual suggested, but they had some WLRM's or maybe even some 9 1/2M's...

So now I'm using Winchester brass, specified as a standard rifle primer (whichever the 4th Lyman suggested) and a 54.5grn max load, and I'm running a magnum primer and a load that's a full grain over max!!!

What if I keep pushing my load development clear up to the max of 57.6grns, because I don't know what pressure signs look like yet?

Remember, in this scenario, consider the 100% new reloader, maybe even a new shooter. I don't know what sticky bolts mean, I don't know what a flattened primer looks like, 'cuz I don't really know what regular fired primers look like yet. So I'm going along, thinking I'm safe because I'm 2grns away from a max load...

We didn't even mix in different bullet profiles for the same description, or the seating depth! Even new reloaders have heard of VLD's, and what about the TTSX that's lead-free and knocking deer in the dirt all over the place? Say I put one of these "longer-than-normal" spire-point bullets seated to a COAL listed for a standard profile spire-point, meaning over seated, maybe even compressing my charge depending on the case, sitting on top of an OVER MAX LOAD and a MAGNUM PRIMER???

Or what if my bullet profile is off the other way, the ogive point is longer and I end up jamming the lands by 5 thou. Heck, a hard closing bolt only means that my once fired brass is perfectly formed to my chamber, right? So now I have a jammed bullet sitting on an over max load and an over-pressure primer...

Now what if I did my load workup and didn't have ANY Win brass in that bunch? I cooked it right up to the limit with this high pressure loads, maybe even decided that the flattened primers were flukes, instead of realizing they were happening in Rem brass, and NOT happening in the Western brass... Now I grab another range lot full of brass and load up a batch that DOES have Winchester brass included... So I have all of my load development that says my load was safe, those split Winchester cases sure are going to come as a surprise!

Your particular load came out at 54grn, which as you pointed out was safe in any brand of case. HOWEVER... That's you. You had all of those manuals to cross-reference and can be confident that a 54grn load will be safe with almost any spire point. But not all shooters/reloaders have that info. You're talking to a new reloader, and in a public forum with an eternal memory, such that OTHER new reloaders might find this information in the future.

Sure, you can work up any combination you like, but it might take a keen eye wrought from experience to determine when things are getting hairy. Inexperienced hands make mistakes, keeping components consistent across the board is one way to help mitigate some of those mistakes.
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Old 05-14-2014, 03:09 AM
  #23  
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While I agree with most of what is been said and Nomercy's what if scenario's, the SAAMI specs for reloading books today have dropped off a solid 100 fps on almost every caliber listed. I have some older books 40+ years old that have some interesting load data. That being said knowing how to reload and using the right specs is going to be a lot more important than Remington vs Winchester brass. Because in the normal scenario's of reloading the SAAMI specs are not going to get you blown up. Now as mentioned before different powders, primers, bullets and seating depths might cause you issues if your new to the reloading world. There is a reason you should own a caliper and a powder scale while reloading. But what if your scale is not right and you don't know how to calibrate it? Some powders will vary +/- 2 grains through a powder measure if you don't throw the arm the same way and speed everytime. Some powders will do that regardless. Lots of variables, to the new guys I say stay well under max loads until you learn to play the game.

Saying all that I have stuck a bolt in a friends gun using my loads that work well in my rifle and are under max by 2.3 grains according to today's SAAMI specs. Chambers and actions also play variables on these scenario's. Do not put a friends reload in your rifle and do not load for other people unless you have the rifle in hand to test loads as you go. You truly need to work up loads for each individual rifle. Lots of variables folks lots of them. The cheaper the components, equipment and firearm usually brings out the most interesting results.
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Old 05-14-2014, 07:46 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by Ridge Runner View Post
1 at 437 and ya got it figured out, good for you.
RR
That sounds a bit sarcastic and isn't even worth commenting on. But just FYI I am not a newbie. I have been reloading since 1965. In my 30s I shot many NRA sanctioned matches back in the 80s including nationals where I was in the top 50. And I was probably using mixed brass then too.
Do what you want and I will continue to do what I want.
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Old 05-15-2014, 02:13 PM
  #25  
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Most of you are mixing factual information with stupid people. When I started reloading, I got a reliable book and did some reading. The worst case described in the previous post shows a person that no amount of coaching or knowledge will help. It did not take me long to figure out there is a whole lot of rumor involved when you get a couple guys talking about reloading. If you can not read and comprehend, you should not be reloading. Reloading has caused way more problems than it ever solved. I can not even guess how many guns I worked on that were having problems that were directly related to reloading. The story usually starts with "My neighbor told me...".
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Old 05-15-2014, 07:48 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Gunplummer View Post
If you can not read and comprehend, you should not be reloading.
And what happens when those people that CAN 'read and comprehend' go online and research... It's the 21st century remember, libraries are going out, apprenticeship and mentorship are a thing of the past, and people do all of their learning by asking questions online...

So they 'read and comprehend' online that EXPERIENCED RELOADERS are saying you can mix and match cases, any load data works with any bullet of a given weight and shape (i.e. all spitzers are created equal), and you can even mix and match primers... "Just as long as you're under the max load"...

The friend that I 'caught' overpressuring his rifle was a national level archery competitor and operates a multimillion dollar dirtwork company that he started while he was in high school by buying a Bobcat instead of a Trans Am with his car loan. "Stupid" he aint. Not some city kid or book-worm that didn't understand how to change his oil or thought his rifles were magic sticks that operated beyond his comprehension. He was just inexperienced and acknowledged it. He figured he was executing incorrectly or using inferior components, not that he was making a mistake on loads. A generation ago, a guy in his shoes would have had an uncle or neighbor or father, grandfather, etc who would have taught him the ropes. But for whatever reason, that older generation decided all of our generation don't deserve to get taught anything the way they were, so a lot of us got left to learn on their own.
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Old 05-16-2014, 05:18 AM
  #27  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunplummer
If you can not read and comprehend, you should not be reloading.

And what happens when those people that CAN 'read and comprehend' go online and research... It's the 21st century remember, libraries are going out, apprenticeship and mentorship are a thing of the past, and people do all of their learning by asking questions online...

So they 'read and comprehend' online that EXPERIENCED RELOADERS are saying you can mix and match cases, any load data works with any bullet of a given weight and shape (i.e. all spitzers are created equal), and you can even mix and match primers... "Just as long as you're under the max load"...



***And that's exactly why I made my "irresponsible" comment and am sticking with it!
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Old 05-16-2014, 02:15 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by bronko22000 View Post
That sounds a bit sarcastic and isn't even worth commenting on. But just FYI I am not a newbie. I have been reloading since 1965. In my 30s I shot many NRA sanctioned matches back in the 80s including nationals where I was in the top 50. And I was probably using mixed brass then too.
Do what you want and I will continue to do what I want.
and stating that you can use any brass, bullet, primer as long as its under max in the book, is setting yourself up for failure, because all you lose is accuracy. why even hunt then? why risk being one of those stories when a hunter has a deer get away wounded, yet exclaim you aimed right behind the shoulder so that's where it had to been hit when all you lose is accuracy? any reloader who takes those kind of shortcuts (especialy when they have the experience you claim to have) should not be posting about it on public forums teaching new reloaders that being lazy with load development is ok. Just my opinion.
RR
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Old 05-16-2014, 03:54 PM
  #29  
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^^^+1000 Sir!!!

Last edited by Topgun 3006; 05-16-2014 at 04:00 PM.
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Old 05-17-2014, 03:48 AM
  #30  
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Bet not one of ya follow the manual to the letter.

Some manuals information was developed with a test barrel and not a rifle. How many of you hunt with a test barrel?

Some manuals used a specific rifle brand and model. How many Use what the manual listed as the test rifle?

Yup just what I thought.

Al
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