case of Pa WCO harassment?
02-12-2010, 06:11 PM
#21
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: PUEBLO, CO, USA
Posts: 636
As a former deputy WCO ('71-'75) I can tell you this sort of thing has happened and this sort of question has been asked thousands of times in the last 40 yrs I am aware of( even before Al Gore invented the internet). That said I think your WCO was barking up the wrong tree in all kinds of areas, despite his 52 weeks of training. The question here is 'intent'. If you are dressed in blue bibs and are obviously farming then the rifle in your window and the gun in your armpits has no bearing on your intent. He can see you farming, your neighbors can see you farming, your wife can see you farming. If you are dressed so and stick your rifle out the window then you have a legal problem.
Now had you been dressed in blaze orange bibs and orange hat and vest the whole picture changes. Seriously I think your WCO friend needs to bark up another tree and quit harassing a farmer. He is supposed to work with landowners not against them. Not that all landowners are saints, but you see my point. Perhaps he could catch some crooks. Or even a poacher. IMHO.
A lil history: You know it used to be in PA that a cop could not search a vehicle without a warrant. And the practice at that time was for the PSP or any local policeman to call a game warden to get it done, as at that time, game wardens could search your vehicle without a warrant. All he had to tell the gw was I think this guy has a deer in the trunk. I am sure it must be all different now, since all police powers are expanded and deputy sheriffs can really arrest people instead of just being wards of the court.
Go see the PGC regional LES for your area and talk to him about your game warden problem, maybe even meet with the gw in the LES's office.
And good luck.
Now had you been dressed in blaze orange bibs and orange hat and vest the whole picture changes. Seriously I think your WCO friend needs to bark up another tree and quit harassing a farmer. He is supposed to work with landowners not against them. Not that all landowners are saints, but you see my point. Perhaps he could catch some crooks. Or even a poacher. IMHO.
A lil history: You know it used to be in PA that a cop could not search a vehicle without a warrant. And the practice at that time was for the PSP or any local policeman to call a game warden to get it done, as at that time, game wardens could search your vehicle without a warrant. All he had to tell the gw was I think this guy has a deer in the trunk. I am sure it must be all different now, since all police powers are expanded and deputy sheriffs can really arrest people instead of just being wards of the court.
Go see the PGC regional LES for your area and talk to him about your game warden problem, maybe even meet with the gw in the LES's office.
And good luck.
02-13-2010, 12:37 AM
#22
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: manassas va USA
Posts: 614
As a former deputy WCO ('71-'75) I can tell you this sort of thing has happened and this sort of question has been asked thousands of times in the last 40 yrs I am aware of( even before Al Gore invented the internet). That said I think your WCO was barking up the wrong tree in all kinds of areas, despite his 52 weeks of training. The question here is 'intent'. If you are dressed in blue bibs and are obviously farming then the rifle in your window and the gun in your armpits has no bearing on your intent. He can see you farming, your neighbors can see you farming, your wife can see you farming. If you are dressed so and stick your rifle out the window then you have a legal problem.
Now had you been dressed in blaze orange bibs and orange hat and vest the whole picture changes. Seriously I think your WCO friend needs to bark up another tree and quit harassing a farmer. He is supposed to work with landowners not against them. Not that all landowners are saints, but you see my point. Perhaps he could catch some crooks. Or even a poacher. IMHO.
A lil history: You know it used to be in PA that a cop could not search a vehicle without a warrant. And the practice at that time was for the PSP or any local policeman to call a game warden to get it done, as at that time, game wardens could search your vehicle without a warrant. All he had to tell the gw was I think this guy has a deer in the trunk. I am sure it must be all different now, since all police powers are expanded and deputy sheriffs can really arrest people instead of just being wards of the court.
Go see the PGC regional LES for your area and talk to him about your game warden problem, maybe even meet with the gw in the LES's office.
And good luck.
Now had you been dressed in blaze orange bibs and orange hat and vest the whole picture changes. Seriously I think your WCO friend needs to bark up another tree and quit harassing a farmer. He is supposed to work with landowners not against them. Not that all landowners are saints, but you see my point. Perhaps he could catch some crooks. Or even a poacher. IMHO.
A lil history: You know it used to be in PA that a cop could not search a vehicle without a warrant. And the practice at that time was for the PSP or any local policeman to call a game warden to get it done, as at that time, game wardens could search your vehicle without a warrant. All he had to tell the gw was I think this guy has a deer in the trunk. I am sure it must be all different now, since all police powers are expanded and deputy sheriffs can really arrest people instead of just being wards of the court.
Go see the PGC regional LES for your area and talk to him about your game warden problem, maybe even meet with the gw in the LES's office.
And good luck.
02-13-2010, 06:18 AM
#25
Fork Horn
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Washington County
Posts: 143
It wasnt WCO Bodenhorn, I just know he is in Elk County, The same County that this took place. The name that Potterco gave me I did not recognize.
02-13-2010, 06:28 AM
#26
Fork Horn
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Washington County
Posts: 143
I misread the PM its Sullivan County. Elk Township, So Bodenhorn is the wrong person to ask. I am still working on it
Last edited by WCO R.W.J; 02-13-2010 at 06:31 AM.
02-16-2010, 03:36 AM
#27
Fork Horn
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Washington County
Posts: 143
At first I thought this incident took place in ELK county, I contacted the WCO there and the name that Potterco gave me didnt match the WCO's, Then WCO Bodenhorn responded to me that they had no DWCO's by That name, I then realized that Potterco's PM said Sillivan County Elk Twp, I looked up Sullivan County and they have no ELk Township but do have an Elkland Township, I contact the WCO there WCO Finnegan, WCO Finnegan only has two DWCO and thier name doesnt match the name provided to me by Potterco.
I am not sure who Potterco came in contact with that day but it wasnt a PGC WCO or DWCO.
I am not sure who Potterco came in contact with that day but it wasnt a PGC WCO or DWCO.
02-16-2010, 04:10 AM
#28
Typical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location:
Posts: 659
Great. Not only do we have the standard crazies out there posing as cops, which is a felony to impersonate a police officer, but now we have folks impersonating WCO's and deputies! I actually had something kind of similar a few years ago hunting pheasnats on a co-op farm. A guy canme up and started harrassing me wanting to know if I had permission (which i did), then he wanted to see my license. i asked to see his badge and he about had a conniption. Turns out he was just a local guy that helped coordinate stockings with the landowner. Had no more legal authority than Al Sharpton. I threatened to report him to the WCO, because he clearly was trying to represent himself as someone with authority. I knew the landwoner and did menion the incident to him, which he apologized for. Turns out the moron was just upset because he had to share hunting for all those stocked birds that he was hoping to have all to his own private little party of hunters and dogs. he never actually calimed to be a WCO or a deputy, but as far as I know, no one else has authority to be checking licenses, ect., and the landowner hadn't authorized him to patrol his property or anything of the like.
02-16-2010, 04:25 AM
#29
Fork Horn
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Washington County
Posts: 143
It happens more than you think, When I was in the South Central I had a guy running around posing, I also had reports last year of a guy in Palmer Park here in Washington claiming to be a DWCO and checking licenses. I went there several times in my personal vehicle and regular hunting clothes but was never approached by anyone.
Thats one of the reasons I always say contact a WCO or supervisor if you have an odd encounter.
BTW all WCO's/DWCO are required to have the PGC issued ID on them while working, in or out of uniform.
I dont know what or who the OP met with that day maybe an Officer from another agency?
Thats one of the reasons I always say contact a WCO or supervisor if you have an odd encounter.
BTW all WCO's/DWCO are required to have the PGC issued ID on them while working, in or out of uniform.
I dont know what or who the OP met with that day maybe an Officer from another agency?
02-16-2010, 05:06 AM
#30
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 7,437
I teach Hunter Education Classes for the State of Wisconsin and am certified instructor.
We teach our students that if a Person asking to see your license. you have the right to ask to see their License/Badge. before presenting your license to them. And this question with a demonstration is a required test question on the "hands on portion of the test".
If they don't do that or come up with some excuse why (As the Conservation Officer may not be wearing a uniform) is to politley decline to show the license required. We teach the student to make sure they are polite but do get a good description, even a back tag number, and a description of the vehicle if they can and just walk away.
JW
We teach our students that if a Person asking to see your license. you have the right to ask to see their License/Badge. before presenting your license to them. And this question with a demonstration is a required test question on the "hands on portion of the test".
If they don't do that or come up with some excuse why (As the Conservation Officer may not be wearing a uniform) is to politley decline to show the license required. We teach the student to make sure they are polite but do get a good description, even a back tag number, and a description of the vehicle if they can and just walk away.
JW