I'am not totally against shooting does. I bought a doe tag for the farm in 3d because we would have between 5 and eight coming out every night in the pasture and the bucks would come down to the house and use the red maples for rubs. Some one else beat me to the hr because come flintlock there were only three.

I base my opinion on all the criteria you just listed. Frankly, I think you need to take a hard look at some of your rationalizations. You claim my results are because I live in a higher DD WMU than you do but, of course, you really don't know the DD of MY hunting spots now do you? You tend to ignore the fact that I also hunt in WMU's and on public ground with lower deer densities too. You cant address that in a way that satisfies you so you call it luck.

When DougE tells us that he finds plenty of deer on public ground in 2G (generally agreed to be the lowest DD in the state) you explain that by claiming he benefits from a lack of hunters.

we get accounts from various other hunters in other WMU's including yours with far better results than you claim.

You have many varied rationalizations for hunters successes all over the state. The truth is you don't really know any of these guys personally (or very few if any ) and dont have any right to make the generalizations you do. I sems to me that maybe you need to examine your hunting area and your tactics and commitment level before you offer baseless guesses as to the explanations for the experiences of others.

It's always easier to simply say the other guy has it easier, luckier, better than you etc etc than it is to really sit down examine why your results arent the same.

And I'll bet the farm that you didnt pursue those three.
Rright Pats?

Part of the problem is hunters that would still go out and hunt those deer despite the fact that the herd had obviously been thinned enough there.

Among the different hunting areas and groups I hunt with, virtually all of them have adopted a policy of knowing when to quit on a given area. Hopefully more and more will adopt that kind of thinking as time goes by.

No you obviously do not do that. If you did you and Doug would realize if more hunters hunted harder and killed more deer there would be less deer to harvest the following year no matter how much harder hunters hunted. If you still think I am wrong , then please tell us how many additional buck and antlerless deer the PA hunters could have harvested by hunting harder in 2008, without reducing the herd and future harvests. If you can't do that then you are not dealing with the reality that HR does in fact mean lower harvests and more unsuccessful hunters no matter how hard hunters might hunt.


BTW, I got my buck this year and it was easy because I got lucky enough to see a legal buck. The other five hunters in our group didn't see any buck and didn't get a shot at a mature doe. I guess in your not so humble opinion they didn't hunt hard enough!!!!

When Dougie takes me on this hike I'll report what we find.Until then I have to admit I'm skeptical.I don't doubt he does pretty good on the timber lands but as for Mosh state forest I've covered quite a bit and haven't found decent deer numbers.There's too many roads which makes for easy access.
He'll have to make a believer out of me.

you hit nail on head there bob.THIS IS WHAT BOTHERS ME MOST,I TELL HUNTERS THAT ONLY 2 DEER ARE LEFT IN AREA AND 80, YES, 80 WERE IN THERE AFTER THEM THIS YEAR.they dont care.40 years ago our dads /uncles would not kill doe off in WMU2G like was done today.some say thats why we have no doe now..........right.....
dcnr says, TOO MANY DEER.but yet the DPSM is down to say 2 from what i am seeing and doe killing goes on and on in WMU2G.
as for douge,if you get out like he does and hunts on treasure lake privateland or publicland he hunts, yes you will see a FEW DEER or lot of deer if on privateland.
douges idea of lot of deer is seeing say 6 deer when he goes out.
he forgets that that area used to hold 50 deer .in his mind 6 is seeing deer.in my mind seeing 20 every time i went out years ago was normal.
no way those 80 hunters are going to be happy seeing douges 6 deer.so they get DESPERATE and go after the 2 that are left where i hunt...........

if you dont own privateland dont expect to even see a deer where you hunt unless you do as douge does and hunt in treasure lake or get in your truck, go scout and drive distance and find a few deer and join the othersthat are going to kill those few doe........
heck, some of biggest gangs here local in clinton county now go to 2b to kill their doe on privateland.
they all filled their freezers and tags.

No, they are still there as of last Thursday. I take a common sense approach towards doe hunting, if I don't see what I feel is a decent number of deer I won't take one. I like to see some bred does make it to next year. After all, they are the key to next years hunting oppurtunities.

So are hunters responsible for managing the herd or is the PGC and DCNR responsible for managing the herd?

Of course the PGC is responsible for the general management of the herd statewide. That doesnt mean hunters cant or shouldn't act responsibly when they see that enough animals have been harvested from their area. Thats exactly what Pats is doing, acting responsibly. we could use more hunters like him.

Do you have an answer to my question?

Doug hunts an area where most hunters would probably say there are too few doe , but Doug has no qualms about harvesting 5 or six. So is Doug right or are the other hunters right? Should some hunters refrain from shooting doe so others can harvest 3 or 4?