btb does go along with RSB most of time other than the comment RSB made about hunters,there he disagreed.

guy i tangle with does not come on much,i wonder if he went to HABITAT school or applying for next years DMAP tags

RSB disagreed with the PGC when they cut the tags in 2g, he had stated on the other site, antlerless should be unlimited in 2g to let the forest recover. I don't understand how anyone could agree with him, unless they are a meat hunter. I never hunted the NC and never will, but I don't see him as a friend of the hunter.

I'm sure glad he is in Elk County and not here where I live and hunt. If you guys in Elk County like him, please keep him.

That is just pure nonsense. I have stated over and over again that i don't need to kill another deer and that I often hunt without carrying a weapon. I also stated I saw 6 buck in two days of hunting during archery so your mindless cheap shots are an out right lie.

The fact is the PGC biologists were wrong about the B/D ratio, the cause of late breeding and the need for ARs and I was right and the deer and the PGC stats prove I was right. On the other hand you and RSB have yet to be right about anything.

Just because you don’t understand how wildlife populations are controlled by their habitat doesn’t mean other people more in touch with how nature really works don’t understand it. More and more hunters are becoming more educated about how the deer/habitat balance works so more and more hunters are shifting to my line of thinking all the time.

Since you don’t seem to think unlimited antler less licenses can be a good thing for deer numbers perhaps you can explain how the areas of the state that have had unlimited license for close to two decades now have increasing deer populations even though their past five year average antler less harvest has been more then 4.5 times as high per square mile, city streets included, as it has been in unit 2G.

If they can’t over harvest, or even reduce the deer numbers, with harvests like that why do you believe they could over harvest the deer where it is much harder access with so many seriously remote areas? The fact is that you and bluebird neither one have even the slightest clue how remote the areas of 2G really are or how under hunted the deer area.

R.S. Bodenhorn

for the life of me ,I can't understand why you continue to flaunt your total ignorance on a subject that has been explained over and over again./ The antlerless harvests in 2B simply failed to exceed recruitment and therefore the herd expanded even with increased antlerless harvests. Despite the fact that the herd continued to increase for 2 decades the herd still did not come close to exceeding the carrying capacity of the habitat so breeding rates and recruitment remained high. But in 2G harvests exceeded recruitment and the herd was reduced to much lower levels than the habitat could support and as a result recruitment dropped like a rock along with the sustainable harvest.

ROTFLMFAO!! Have someone read the posts to you from a few weeks ago. If you think I'm a suck up to RSB you obviously cant read. If I agree, I'll say so and I'll do the same if I disagree. Go back and read again Skippy!

Uh yeah, over 50 years ago! Actually it was at least two on ONE side if we wish to join you on your half century trip back in time. And that means what? It'srelevant how?

No the biologists were not wrong and I know the results of the resent management are an improvement in this area over what was occurring before antler restrictions. It is you who is wrong about the need for antler restrictions, just as you are wrong about the how deer should be managed in relation to their habitat.

Before the affects of antler restrictions the five year average adult buck/adult doe ratio the volunteer survey teams were seeing 1 adult buck per 3.80 adult does and the average since has been 1 adult buck per 2.72 adult does.

The adult doe breeding rates, from the highway killed deer I have checked, for the same time five year time periods have also shown a great improvement of 84.4% adult doe being bred before antler restrictions to 98.0% being bred since. Also before antler restrictions it took over five months to get those adult does bred, but since antler restrictions that breeding window has declined to six weeks and even included the few juvenile doe that were bred.

The fawn recruitment rates in this area have also improved since antler restrictions, based on the number of fawns per adult doe the volunteer survey teams have seen. Before antler restrictions the five year average was .54 fawns per adult doe and has increased to .63 fawns per adult doe since antler restrictions.

That is an improvement in all of the things that the professional deer managers said they expected to achieve with the antler restrictions. I know darn well it is working because I get to see the affects of it doing exactly as it was intended. Now everyone else can also see that it is working in this area. If antler restrictions and the current deer management is working that well in this area I am also sure it is working in most other areas of the state too.

At least it is working for the benefit of better deer management. I agree though that it might not be working as well for those that just wanted to shoot the first piece of antler they saw so they could get their hunting over with as quickly as possible. But then, unlike some hunters, I tend to believe professional deer managers should manage for the betterment of the resource instead of just hunter appeasement.

R.S. Bodenhorn

And I can’t understand why anyone would fail to understand that it is that good habitat that allows that higher fawn higher recruitment in those areas with unlimited antler less harvests and that it is also the poor habitat that keeps the fawn recruitment so low hunters can’t harvest but a fifth the number of deer per square mile in those poor habitat areas.

I can’t understand howany knowledgeable or logical thinking personwould fail to see that it is largely the years of attempting to carry too many deer that created that poor habitat in the areas of the state that can’t recruit more fawns even at such low deer harvests. Nor can I understand how anyone could fail to recognize that it is that continuous demand to keep trying to support way to many deer on that poor habitat that keeps preventing the habitat from recovering enough to one day have both higher harvests and better fawn recruitment.

Just because you have never figured out how nature works or that the deer and habitat are not two separate issues doesn’t mean the professional resource managers haven’t learned those things.

When left unchecked the deer numbers will control their habitat until it reaches the point that habitat also controls the deer numbers. Once the habitat is controlling the deer numbers there is only one way to fix the resulting low deer numbers and that is to harvest as many deer as possible until the habitat can recover enough to support more deer. That is the only thing that works.

As long as hunters fail or refuse to either understand or accept that fact the deer numbers will never increase much or for long in the poor habitat areas. What is even worse is that we will continue to see more and more of those poor habitat and declining deer population areas until more hunters do understand and accept that message.

R.S. Bodenhorn

You sort of disagreed with him after the other hunters jumped all over him. Did you disagree before or after he felt his words were a little harsh?

Seems to me that PGC supports always say, that had they listened to a certain Biologist years ago, we wouldn't have the problems we have today.

Had we been allowed to harvest more than one deer a season, back in the 50's and 60's, you and a lot of other hunters, wouldn't be hunting today.

So go crawl back under your rock with RSB and do whatever it is you two do.

When you do take a break, try and picture what hunting was like back then. Twenty some hunters driving deer on the first Saturday and usually not seeing one buck, half or less seeing a doe or two, yes we hunted, didn't sit in a tree and wait for someone else to put a deer into us. Twenty some hunters again in doe season and harvesting five to seven deer was a great first day. I recall having 21 hunters posted the first day of doe season, until we were going to start driving at nine, not one hunter had seen a deer.

It's time for you to grow up and start thinking for yourself.

Do you also read palms and tarot cards?