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RE: PA Regulations??
why dont you see hunters with crossbows in virginia
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RE: PA Regulations??
"poacher wants a QUICK KILL so he can load deer up and get out of "
Because the noise of his weapon makes it necessary. Also, a lung shot deer with an arrow (or bolt in this case) don't run very far. Might even be better for it to get out of sight slightly. "using say a 22 mag , he aims for head of deer. deer will go right down." 22 mags are loud. "respectfully to you, you are right but i feel the 22 mag is one they use most unless a shot will alert others like in a state park area or near homes ." Id say now that probably is the case because xguns arent widespread due to not being legal most areas during archery.Id imagine it would matter how "remote" your area was as well. There are plenty of farmland areas and other areas of the state that arent the big northwoods that one wouldnt be very wise to crack off with a 22 mag Judging by all the poachers Ive read about being caught by wcos while on night patrol ineven the big woods areas in game news and others, Id say less noise would be wise even in the less populated areas if possible.;) |
RE: PA Regulations??
they wouldnt want the deer to run so i dont think they would use x bow
most probaly wouldnt shoot that close to a house and most times you see 2 or3 guy jump out grab it within a min there driving down the road 22 or 22mag would be my guess as to what they use 99% of the time |
RE: PA Regulations??
I disagree. I think most wouldnt be concerned about a deer running 20-75 yards with its lungs shot out. Especially when it is no harder to get it than it would be if it were shot with a rifle at 100 yards. And NO noise. One guy dropped off to get it. Piece of cake.
Also we are talking only about night hunting from the road... What about sitting in a stand? What about hunting on foot near home? Ihave zero doubtthat crossbows will add to the poaching. How much is debatable. Might not be a ton more, but just some "switching over" from time to time. My main reasons for being against inclusion are not poaching, that is just a secondary maleffect concern. Ive already addressed the others which I feel much more strongly about anyway. |
RE: PA Regulations??
For that matter, a good archer with a compound bow and access to a bait pile can quietly slaughter dozens of deer, esp in late winter when the woods are empty and food in limited supply. No matter the weapon, poachers have been doing their deed for centuries. Recent surges in the privatization ofwildlife only encourage the practice as an act of defiance.
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RE: PA Regulations??
ORIGINAL: Screamin Steel For that matter, a good archer with a compound bow and access to a bait pile can quietly slaughter dozens of deer, esp in late winter when the woods are empty and food in limited supply. No matter the weapon, poachers have been doing their deed for centuries. Recent surges in the privatization ofwildlife only encourage the practice as an act of defiance. |
RE: PA Regulations??
here you go w/ all of your accusations about Xbow hunters. Parking lot talk because you won't open your eyes to reality. My mother who is 83 doesn't spread rumors as fast as the bunch here. The dirges you sing amuse me. Elitism shows in everything you write and the more i push back the more your true colors are uncivered. You are the only true hunters, you are the woodsman, you are the only guys who spend time in the woods patterning, working and spotting the buck.........Sproul, I love you man but 43 bolts? The rest of you guys on here, God Bless you and your stubborness. Your belief that because i shoot a Xbow I am an inferior hunter is so misguided and wrong.You ask for all the shots you get because your thought process are so narrow and wrong. I'm a bait pile hunter because i use a Xbow, now I'm a poacher because I use a Xbow, next you reason I am going to be thesevere reduction of the herd in PA because i use a Xbow.Let me clue you pal, your game program was screwed long before any Xbow came into the woods legally. 900,000 hunters and shrinking, why??? Probably because you definitely do not present a very welcome attitude w/ this elitism spewed on these pages. If i don't step in line w/ you I am an Ohio hunter w/ no skills, not a progressive hunter, not a land manager and not welcome! great job all of you! All your powerful Organizations in PA have reallyt made a difference in the PAPGC attitude towards hunters! Oh that's right you got what yopu want and to h_ _l w/ wvery other hunting discipline! Now I get it and you have proved it, if i don't hunt compound only I am not worthy to hunt the same woods as you. Great.........I will continue to support the Xbow lobby and will start supporting the Inline Lobby as they battle your narrow minded thoughts and anti hunter diatribes. Yes, I shoot the flintlock as well, but i wear my goretex and hand warmers, so traditon don't count it's plain fun. I will support these high powered lobbiebecause your narrow sights and anti hunting speeches will be the death of any hunting futures in PA.
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RE: PA Regulations??
Pandora's box was opened a long time ago when the PGC allowed compound bows in PA. Then along came in-line muzzloaders with scopes(may as well be usinga centerfire rifle)I disagreed with both decisions.
So unless you are a purist using a bow with no mechanical advantage (i.e. longbow), or you use a flintlock with roundballs, I don't see how you can b*tch about crossbows. It's way too late for that. |
RE: PA Regulations??
That was a pretty good post.
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RE: PA Regulations??
When i was younger and didnt know any better, i spent a lot of time hanging out with guys with .22's and headlights in their trucks, if you know what i mean. Trust me, compared to a .22 carbine, a crossbow is too expensive,too big andclumsy, andnot accurate enoughfor "after hours" deer hunting, especially if it is being done from an automobile. Those who think that the crossbow is some sort of night time poacher's dream weapon are just flat wrong. As for those who want to poach during the day, agood compound bow is gonna be preferred over a crossbow because it provides a much quicker second shot, andmostpoachers aregonna go for more than one deer in a group if they have a chance.
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RE: PA Regulations??
I don't think the poaching thing holds too much water either. Poaching is poaching. Trying to shoot a crossbow out the window of a car would be difficult and too cumbersome to lug around. Not to mention that the bolt, if not found, could be found by a WCO and used as evidence.
My question is why now, does the PGC see a need to include them? Our season's have went just fine without them. I may be off base here, but I don't recall a big out cry from the public to have them legalized. If that's the case, what is their reasoning? |
RE: PA Regulations??
I can only speak for Illinois. They started out being legalized for disabled folks to allow them to participate in archery season. They were recently made legal for anyone 62 or over. It is safe to assume that,if there is no verifiablenegative impact from allowing limited C-bow hunting, then there will eventually be an effort to fully include them in archery season. Think that it is safe to assume that the crossbow makers will be happy to encourage this and to shell out big bucks to lobby for it.
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RE: PA Regulations??
"Pandora's box was opened a long time ago when the PGC allowed compound bows in PA. Then along came in-line muzzloaders with scopes(may as well be usinga centerfire rifle)I disagreed with both decisions. "
So? One should have nothing to do with the other(s) and each should have been and should be in the future looked at INDIVIDUALLY as it should be about what is the effect to the resource and also what is the effect to overall hunter satisfaction in both the effects and as to wether or not the majority actually WANT the implement legalized. Im not concerned with rewriting history and its not gonna be done. But that doesnt mean one bit we shouldnt strive to have sound decisions made and not just allow mistakes to occur because George Washington chopped down a cherry tree hundreds of years ago, so crossguns should now be legal!! Gimme a break! You want an easy shortcut. So lets call a spade a spade and quit dancing around the FACTS.;) "So unless you are a purist using a bow with no mechanical advantage (i.e. longbow), or you use a flintlock with roundballs, I don't see how you can b*tch about crossbows. It's way too late for that." According towhom?? YOU?[8D] 4 Pgc commissioners?[8D] Crossbow manufacturers?[8D] Call me crazy but I'd say that 900,000 Pa hunting license buyers should have some kind of say in all this. Currently MANY more have petitioned the board of commissioners AGAINST inclusion. I guess you dont support hunters having a say in anything, just like the anti-deer crew? BTW, crossbows ARE currently legal. There are several weeks to use them.;) |
RE: PA Regulations??
ORIGINAL: Buck Hunter 1 here you go w/ all of your accusations about Xbow hunters. Parking lot talk because you won't open your eyes to reality. My mother who is 83 doesn't spread rumors as fast as the bunch here. The dirges you sing amuse me. Elitism shows in everything you write and the more i push back the more your true colors are uncivered. You are the only true hunters, you are the woodsman, you are the only guys who spend time in the woods patterning, working and spotting the buck.........Sproul, I love you man but 43 bolts? The rest of you guys on here, God Bless you and your stubborness. Your belief that because i shoot a Xbow I am an inferior hunter is so misguided and wrong.You ask for all the shots you get because your thought process are so narrow and wrong. I'm a bait pile hunter because i use a Xbow, now I'm a poacher because I use a Xbow, next you reason I am going to be thesevere reduction of the herd in PA because i use a Xbow.Let me clue you pal, your game program was screwed long before any Xbow came into the woods legally. 900,000 hunters and shrinking, why??? Probably because you definitely do not present a very welcome attitude w/ this elitism spewed on these pages. If i don't step in line w/ you I am an Ohio hunter w/ no skills, not a progressive hunter, not a land manager and not welcome! great job all of you! All your powerful Organizations in PA have reallyt made a difference in the PAPGC attitude towards hunters! Oh that's right you got what yopu want and to h_ _l w/ wvery other hunting discipline! Now I get it and you have proved it, if i don't hunt compound only I am not worthy to hunt the same woods as you. Great.........I will continue to support the Xbow lobby and will start supporting the Inline Lobby as they battle your narrow minded thoughts and anti hunter diatribes. Yes, I shoot the flintlock as well, but i wear my goretex and hand warmers, so traditon don't count it's plain fun. I will support these high powered lobbiebecause your narrow sights and anti hunting speeches will be the death of any hunting futures in PA. it was at RAYSTOWN PARK located in altoona area. we were fishing a early state b.a.s.s tournament in april called ICE OUT., when registering at office the park rangers told me employees that cut grass found all those CROSSBOW BOLTS on property.in areas that are no hunting . |
RE: PA Regulations??
ORIGINAL: muzzyman88 I don't think the poaching thing holds too much water either. Poaching is poaching. Trying to shoot a crossbow out the window of a car would be difficult and too cumbersome to lug around. Not to mention that the bolt, if not found, could be found by a WCO and used as evidence. My question is why now, does the PGC see a need to include them? Our season's have went just fine without them. I may be off base here, but I don't recall a big out cry from the public to have them legalized. If that's the case, what is their reasoning? you would not believe the number of hunters that are going to sell their compounds and buy crossbows,A LOT OF THEM. i was at our bass meeting on monday night, there was 22 of us there. i asked how many that hunt are going to buy a CROSSBOW. 4 DONT HUNT AT ALL. out of 18, 12 archery hunt now. 3 of the ones using compound said they are staying with it. 6 that did not archery hunt now are all going to buy a CROSSBOW. other 9 that archery hunt are all buying a CROSSBOW. 5 already got a crossbow, 2 are EXCALIBER,1 HORTON ,2 BARNETTS. SO, thats 6 new archery hunters and 15 that are orgoing to buy a CROSSBOW . ages are around 17 from 35/55 and 5 are 61 to 72. i also see in-line sales going up and flintlock sales down if the in-lines are used in the late flintlock season. i also see double hunters in late seasonthan we have now with in-lines and i see more deer killed then too. same with crossbows, you would not believe the big bucks that were killed by crossbow hunters this year in centre/lycoming countys. almost all i talked to at gander mountain said they used a CROSSBOW this year and are were fairly young and DISABLED.:eek: |
RE: PA Regulations??
ORIGINAL: Cornelius08 I disagree. I think most wouldnt be concerned about a deer running 20-75 yards with its lungs shot out. Especially when it is no harder to get it than it would be if it were shot with a rifle at 100 yards. And NO noise. One guy dropped off to get it. Piece of cake. Also we are talking only about night hunting from the road... What about sitting in a stand? What about hunting on foot near home? Ihave zero doubtthat crossbows will add to the poaching. How much is debatable. Might not be a ton more, but just some "switching over" from time to time. My main reasons for being against inclusion are not poaching, that is just a secondary maleffect concern. Ive already addressed the others which I feel much more strongly about anyway. crossbows are not going to increase poaching one bit. |
RE: PA Regulations??
"during archery and flintlock season small game is in. 22 are legal and wouldn't alert anyone of the gunshot out of the normal"
Really? What about trespassers on posted property?? Think they want to be heard shooting? What about poaching in summer time? What about night time? What about in fall before small game? This argument could go on and on, and we arent gonna agree. I disagree and my opinion is no less valid than yours. Doesnt make one bit of diff. though. My argument against xrifles doesnt live or die with "poaching". As Ive already stated that is just a secondary possible maleffect. There are others that are more significant. I don't think I need to rehash the long dirty laundry list of maleffects which are why crossbows shouldnt be even under consideration. They are spoken of by myself and others on many posts throughout this thread. |
RE: PA Regulations??
crossbow will help poaching i think that is a poor excuse for those who dont want them
as for the inlines i think there great more modern weapons its not 1902 anymore adjust and overcome |
RE: PA Regulations??
"adjust and overcome"
That would be good advice for those too unmotivated to use a bow in bow season, but instead beg for shortcuts. Maybe thats your idea of "adjusting and overcoming"? BTW, I believe that is ADAPT and overcome.;) And in case you missed it, inlines arent being proposed. That shortcut already has its own season. |
RE: PA Regulations??
here you go w/ all of your accusations about Xbow hunters. Parking lot talk because you won't open your eyes to reality. My mother who is 83 doesn't spread rumors as fast as the bunch here. The dirges you sing amuse me. Elitism shows in everything you write and the more i push back the more your true colors are uncivered. You are the only true hunters, you are the woodsman, you are the only guys who spend time in the woods patterning, working and spotting the buck.........Sproul, I love you man but 43 bolts? The rest of you guys on here, God Bless you and your stubborness. Your belief that because i shoot a Xbow I am an inferior hunter is so misguided and wrong.You ask for all the shots you get because your thought process are so narrow and wrong. I'm a bait pile hunter because i use a Xbow, now I'm a poacher because I use a Xbow, next you reason I am going to be thesevere reduction of the herd in PA because i use a Xbow.Let me clue you pal, your game program was screwed long before any Xbow came into the woods legally. 900,000 hunters and shrinking, why??? Probably because you definitely do not present a very welcome attitude w/ this elitism spewed on these pages. If i don't step in line w/ you I am an Ohio hunter w/ no skills, not a progressive hunter, not a land manager and not welcome! great job all of you! All your powerful Organizations in PA have reallyt made a difference in the PAPGC attitude towards hunters! Oh that's right you got what yopu want and to h_ _l w/ wvery other hunting discipline! Now I get it and you have proved it, if i don't hunt compound only I am not worthy to hunt the same woods as you. Great.........I will continue to support the Xbow lobby and will start supporting the Inline Lobby as they battle your narrow minded thoughts and anti hunter diatribes. Yes, I shoot the flintlock as well, but i wear my goretex and hand warmers, so traditon don't count it's plain fun. I will support these high powered lobbiebecause your narrow sights and anti hunting speeches will be the death of any hunting futures in PA.  .......................... |
RE: PA Regulations??
shortcuts are not always bad :D
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RE: PA Regulations??
Sproulman:
You asked ,,,why dont you see x-bows in va?,,,im gonna enlighten ya right now,,,,i dont see em for the simple reason that their legal,,,their expensive,,,and they down right suck to carry around in the woods,,,whats more ,,it's like back in the day when yer Mom told ya to keep yer finger out of your nose,,,and you picked it anyways,,,,and then when she laid off of ya about the nose pickin you somehow out of the blue just quit the nasty habit,,,once yer allowed to do something (anything pertains) it takes the fun out of doin it! |
RE: PA Regulations??
if that holds water
i say no speed limits so people drive slower:eek: |
RE: PA Regulations??
Vais roughly same size,Pa yet it only has one third the total hunter numbers. Nuff said. No magic, no nosepickin', just simple logic.
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RE: PA Regulations??
Cornelius:
Yeah i have one question for ya regarding your previous post about the amount of hunter #'s in Pa. Vs the # of hunters in Va. Are ya ready for this????? How many pi$$ed of hunters are there in Va. compared to the unGodly # of Pi$$ed off hunters that are in Pa?????????We have no shortage of deer here,,,as a matter of fact we will be shootin does here until march of "09" |
RE: PA Regulations??
Oh I agree my friend. And the solution is not to ADD to that disgust here in Paby adding more harvest. And then po-ing even more because their season is getting screwed with badly.
Are problems currently arent because we dont have crossbows, but very well might worsen with them. I guess you suggest we p- off just about everyone about somethngin order to make more people happy?:eek: |
RE: PA Regulations??
Coreneilius08 Back at you my friend! XBow addict!
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RE: PA Regulations??
I suggest that you guys "live and let live",,,I dont feel that the current "deer" issues are with the PGC,,,i feel that they are at the hands of the hunter,,,,You guys and i mean Pa. residents and non residents alike that have any sort of hope for the future of hunting will stop blaming every Tom,,Dick,,,And Harry for the problems that you have caused yourselves,,,You and only You can change the outcome of the upcoming hunting seasons and it sure as he!! wont be changed by the weapon one uses,,,Your greed will kill the deer not the weapon,,,Set your own limitations,,,If (and i wont be any time soon) i want to use a x-bow to hunt with in Pa.,,,just who the f!!k gives you the right to determine my needs and desires?
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RE: PA Regulations??
"I suggest that you guys "live and let live",,,I dont feel that the current "deer" issues are with the PGC,,,i feel that they are at the hands of the hunter,,,,You guys and i mean Pa. residents and non residents alike that have any sort of hope for the future of hunting will stop blaming every Tom,,****,,,And Harry for the problems that you have caused yourselves,,,You and only You can change the outcome of the upcoming hunting seasons and it sure as he!! wont be changed by the weapon one uses,,,Your greed will kill the deer not the weapon,",
Its Pa game commissions job to INSURE OVERHARVEST DOESNT OCCUR....Not allocate WAAAAY too many tags then expect them not to be used? (LOL)[:'(]Which isnt even the case, they want them to be to cater to ecoweineys and timber interests. Responsible management should be expected If they can't do it, then we need someone who will. No need to include me in with those you blame either. I havent shot a doe in years, by choice. Lot of good it has done! (LOL) ",Set your own limitations,,,If (and i wont be any time soon) i want to use a x-bow to hunt with in Pa.,,,just who the f!!k gives you the right to determine my needs and desires?" When your greedy "needs and desires" undermine those of the many, then im sorry, but we have a problem.Thats the way it is. Dont like it? Tough. Exercise your "needs and desires" during rifle season with your xgun and quit trying to screw up everyone elses. BTW, nice language hero. Dont know who you are trying to impress, but it aint me son.;) |
RE: PA Regulations??
your post says it all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your lookin for Someone ,,anyone,,,to give you what you need,,,this probably holds true through every aspect of your life! I have not hunted Pa. since 2003 for one and only one reason,,,i cant justify killin a deer there,,,why,,because on the land that i own they just are not there,,,and whys that,,,because family members in the past have just burnt up tag after tag layin em over,,for their own greedy needs (in my opinion). The PGC does'nt owe me a thing just because i bought my Pa. hunting liscense,,,God gave me a mind to think for myself,,,and i tell myself that if i want my kids and grandkids to experience what i had 30 years ago,,,then i need to lay off,,,,That means lay off with a gun,,,recurve,,,x-bow,,,compound,,,flintlock,,,,the whole 9 yards!
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RE: PA Regulations??
"your post says it all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your lookin for Someone ,,anyone,,,to give you what you need"
Says the man crying for a shortcut into archery season.  As for your nonsense about taking upon ourselves to manage the herd, then I guess we can just get rid of Pgc all together. By your logic, No sense keeping them around and paying them for absolutely no reason is there?[8D] |
RE: PA Regulations??
rem i agree with last 2 post
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RE: PA Regulations??
Lets just agree to disagree,,,because for some reason you still hav'nt got the fact that im not a x-bow hunter,,,,i shoot a hoyt compound,,,(watch the word "hoyt" start another pi$$in match) According to the above post you feel that the PGC will take care of all your needs,,,so continue "by all means" relying on them
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RE: PA Regulations??
He he he. You sure you didnt mean H-O-Y..................................RTON? (LOL);)
"so continue "by all means" relying on them " He he he. Not sure what that is supposed to mean? First you say not to shoot deer with bow gun ml or other (which I said I havent shot a doe in years) and then you infer that PGC somehow has no responsibility to manage anything... Yet I am somehow I am "relying on them"... He he he. Aside from me NOT holding a gun to 800,000 sportsmen of the state and demanding noone shoot another doe, what exactly do you think I should do to break my unhealthy reliance on pgc and solve the states problem of hunter all time high dissatisfaction?....Petition that crossbows be made legal? Ha ha ha. [:'(] I feel bad because I rely on so many. I rely on the president not to get our country blown off the map, I rely on my boss to give me the pay check I work for, I'll probably rely on the fire department if my house catches fire and maybe, if Im not too ashamed to lower my self, perhaps a doctor if I ever in deparate need of one...(LOL) But I still dont NEED crossbows, unlike some.;) |
RE: PA Regulations??
ORIGINAL: Cornelius08 "during archery and flintlock season small game is in. 22 are legal and wouldn't alert anyone of the gunshot out of the normal" Really? What about trespassers on posted property?? Think they want to be heard shooting? What about poaching in summer time? What about night time? What about in fall before small game? This argument could go on and on, and we arent gonna agree. I disagree and my opinion is no less valid than yours. Doesnt make one bit of diff. though. My argument against xrifles doesnt live or die with "poaching". As Ive already stated that is just a secondary possible maleffect. There are others that are more significant. I don't think I need to rehash the long dirty laundry list of maleffects which are why crossbows shouldnt be even under consideration. They are spoken of by myself and others on many posts throughout this thread. |
RE: PA Regulations??
its hard to place 1 shot that your not expecting anyway
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RE: PA Regulations??
I dont think our crossbow sales have been skyrocketing lately where they arent legal to hunt with. Thatsdue to people not exactly being willing topay a grand to take them out into the woods to shoot stumps and tomato cans.
Make them legal and the number of crossbows in peoples hands will increase greatly over currently. And it seems even though you quoted my statements, you didnt pay much mind to this: ""This argument could go on and on, and we arent gonna agree. I disagree and my opinion is no less valid than yours. Doesnt make one bit of diff. though. My argument against xrifles doesnt live or die with "poaching". As Ive already stated that is just a secondary possible maleffect. There are others that are more significant. I don't think I need to rehash the long dirty laundry list of maleffects which are why crossbows shouldnt be even under consideration. They are spoken of by myself and others on many posts throughout this thread."" |
RE: PA Regulations??
"its hard to place 1 shot that your not expecting anyway"
The word "hard" has nothing to do with placing a crossbow shot. |
RE: PA Regulations??
by place i ment hear 1 22 22mag its hard to place 1 shot when you hear it with any rifle
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RE: PA Regulations??
ORIGINAL: Cornelius08 "Pandora's box was opened a long time ago when the PGC allowed compound bows in PA. Then along came in-line muzzloaders with scopes(may as well be usinga centerfire rifle)I disagreed with both decisions. " So? One should have nothing to do with the other(s) and each should have been and should be in the future looked at INDIVIDUALLY as it should be about what is the effect to the resource and also what is the effect to overall hunter satisfaction in both the effects and as to wether or not the majority actually WANT the implement legalized. Im not concerned with rewriting history and its not gonna be done. But that doesnt mean one bit we shouldnt strive to have sound decisions made and not just allow mistakes to occur because George Washington chopped down a cherry tree hundreds of years ago, so crossguns should now be legal!! Gimme a break! You want an easy shortcut. So lets call a spade a spade and quit dancing around the FACTS.;) "So unless you are a purist using a bow with no mechanical advantage (i.e. longbow), or you use a flintlock with roundballs, I don't see how you can b*tch about crossbows. It's way too late for that." According towhom?? YOU?[8D] 4 Pgc commissioners?[8D] Crossbow manufacturers?[8D] Call me crazy but I'd say that 900,000 Pa hunting license buyers should have some kind of say in all this. Currently MANY more have petitioned the board of commissioners AGAINST inclusion. I guess you dont support hunters having a say in anything, just like the anti-deer crew? BTW, crossbows ARE currently legal. There are several weeks to use them.;) |
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