RE: PA Regulations??
 

if we want to stay in 1902 why dont we go back to cave men throwing
sticks or stones at the animal we want

RE: PA Regulations??
 

+


good info.

most of poaching is done between hrs of 10pm to 2 am.

usually with rifle.
crossbow is only used in the PARKS where the big bucks hang out and shot will be heard.

this is why so many bolts were found at 1 park.

poacher does not want to chase buck in dark,so HEAD SHOT is best way.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

RIGHT ON

Hatchet Jack

RE: PA Regulations??
 

Douge,are you listening

RE: PA Regulations??
 

The sad thing is some folks here are so offbase and irrational about the alleged use of crossbows for poaching that there isnt much reason to take any of their other assertions seriously. It would be like having folks argue against the use of muzzle loaders because the poachers wil be able toshootdeer thru the eye at 500 yards on a windyday on private propertywith one of them. On that point I dont think there is any need to agree to disagree:D

But keep it up, like I have said before, You PA boys have some of the most entertaining, and sometimes informative, threads on this site

RE: PA Regulations??
 

You're barkin at the wrong guy Sproul!

DougE is hunting places where there are obviously good deer populations. He's doing whats legal and he's doing it the right way!

The guy who needs that reminder from you is the one who says he hunted all week and only saw the one deer he shot.

The guy who needs hit on the head with that stick is the guy who hunts 10 days and only seees 3 deer and continues to go to that same area intending to kill a deer if he sees one.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

"if we want to stay in 1902 why dont we go back to cave men throwing
sticks or stones at the animal we want"

Sounds good to me, as long as xguns arent legal. :D

Strange fascination with 1902... This is 2008. Rifles, shotguns, pistols, muzzeloaders bows...etc. No crossbows in archery. Fine with me.

You want to go back to 1902 weaponry and seasons etc. Thats your perogative to contact Pgc and let them know. Im sure they will give your suggestion its deserved consideration!;)

I just wonder what those who cant kill a deer with a real bow will be begging for next....Say 8 years after crossguns are legalized and they STILL cant kill deer. The possibilities kinda make your rock and stick throwing scenario sound pretty good to me.:D

RE: PA Regulations??
 

Lanse, relax, you probably won't have to beg much longer. PGC have shown their deer slaughtering stripes again and have preliminarily approved your shortcut so get off your knees![:'(]

RE: PA Regulations??
 

Idont recall doing any begging.I think that if there is widespread well-argued support for crossbows then include them, and if there is widespread well-argued opposition then keep them very limited in use. However,based on most of your commentsthe opposition is doing a much better job of distorting the facts and spreading disinformation than it is in providing logical arguments aginst C-bows.
Stuff like that eventually works against you and weakens your arguments. Then you sit there scratching your heads wondering why crossbows are being legalized in state after state.Yes, there is money and politics involved, but also some folks just get tired ofhearing the irrational nagging of the antis. I know that I started out being opposed to crossbows.But then after looking at both sides of the issue and getting more and more sick of hearing the constantselfish whining and lies that i hear from lots of the antis, I changed my perspective. Some of you folks are your own worst enemies in terms of this issue and you are a bit toodense to realize it.:eek:

RE: PA Regulations??
 

"Idont recall doing any begging."

Selective memory.:D

"I think that if there is widespread well-argued support for crossbows then include them, and if there is widespread well-argued opposition then keep them very limited in use. "

I disagree. and to a point agree. I don't think this matter should be or need to be argued AT ALL. This should be decided by the sportsmen of the state and pgc should have made the effort to ask before just shoving things down our throats. I think with matters such as this, it should be majority rule and if I dont like the results or you dont, tough. But that certainly far from how it is currently being done.

"Stuff like that eventually works against you and weakens your arguments. "

Do you think I give a rats butt about your judgement of my argument? (LOL). Your opinion is completely meaningless to me. my opinions are my opinions and the facts I speak of are facts. It is what it is. Of course your desire for the shortcut in no way effects your judgement of my posts. (LOL)

"Then you sit there scratching your heads wondering why crossbows are being legalized in state after state."

Actually Im not. I think you better do a recount. MOST states do NOT have them legal in archery deerseason for all. Manufacturers are largely responsible for those states that do have them legal. And that is a fact. They've also been very hard at work here as of late. Perhaps you know all about this alot more than you let on.;)

RE: PA Regulations??
 

Uh,

1.Inever said MOST states, i said that it has been happening in state after state which is true if you bothered to check the numbers of states that have recently legalized the use of crossbows or have expanded their legal in various ways. Furthermore, my understanding is that any hunting with crossbows was pretty much illegal in all states several decades ago, but now plenty of states allow it in various forms. So, there is a general trend toward legalization.

2.Your facts and opinions about theuse of crossbows as a weapon of choice by poachersare absurd and even some of your own fellow antis havenot backedyouon that. So, whose opinion is meaningless here.

3.And yes, the sportsmen of the state should have a major voice in the decision, but based on informed perspectives, notbiased and often inaccurate rhetoric.

Butkeep talking, you are a one man promotion for crossbow legalization and dont even know it[8D]

RE: PA Regulations??
 

"1.Inever said MOST states, i said that it has been happening in state after state "

State after state implies "alot". Its not "alot".;)

"2.Your facts and opinions about theuse of crossbows as a weapon of choice by poachersare absurd and even some of your own fellow antis havenot backedyouon that."

Sure they have. We have varying opinions on ONE issue.Poaching. There are several othersand as Ive repeated, poaching was the least of my own.I do not withhold support for crossbows because of poaching. I do so for about 6 or 8 reasons. Reasons of which many others agree with one or more. So grasp onto whatever makes you feel better in pushing your lil' agenda, but lets try to "keep it real" at least a little eh? You pathetic desparateattempts at discredit are amusing to say the least! (LOL):D

"So, whose opinion is meaningless here."

Yours.

"3.And yes, the sportsmen of the state should have a major voice in the decision, but based on informed perspectives, notbiased and often inaccurate rhetoric. "

Ha ha ha. Thats something YOU would never agree on. Because if the outcome didnt favor you, and it wouldnt, you wouldnt accept it because of your distorted views of the reality of the issue. I say it doesnt matter. If hunters dont want it, based on the facts (which dont support inclusion) or just because they dont want it for ANY reason, who the heck are YOU to overrule the majority of our hunters or to judge wether their opinions are VALID ENOUGH? Get over yourself. You sound like a complete know it all jag!


"Butkeep talking, you are a one man promotion for crossbow legalization and dont even know it"

well, ok, but only if I have your permission.:eek:

RE: PA Regulations??
 

Uh, at one point Crossbows were universally illegal for hunting. Compared to that, the weapon is now legal (in one form or another) in almost all states, if not all of them.The trend, especially over the last decade or so has beenfor the crossbow to be expanded in terms of use beyond the disabled or very limited seasons. So, by any standard you want to use, the use of the crossow is expanding. Dunno why that is so hard to grasp.

It comes down to the fact that you started off making a big deal out of the fact that crossbows would become the ultimate poachers tool. That is the type of baseless discourse that folks try to use against legalization of the crossbow. Now that you have been called onit, you are backing away from those claims. You shot yourself in the foot and got called called on it.If you are gonna come up with wild crap like that, then why should anyone pay attention to other things you claim. That is why I say that legalization (or not) of the crossbow needs to be based on intelligent, informed discussion of the issue.

Kind of silly to argue this since the crossbow is likely gonna end up being used in PA and elsewhere because folks like you are generally the best thing that the anti movement can come up with.So,I wil yield the soapbox to you, but feel free to keepgoing. Like I said, nothing is more helpful to the crossbow movement than to have folks like you talking and talking in public. You da man.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

Fact remains, as I state, MOST STATES DONT ALLOW THEM IN THEIR ARCHERY SEASON FOR ALL. Which is more "telling" than the fact a handful of states actually have legalized them thanks to the efforts of manufacturers petitioning to expand their business.

"It comes down to the fact that you started off making a big deal out of the fact that crossbows would become the ultimate poachers tool."

I actually didnt. Its not the first or foremost part of the topic Ive discussed. Its one you choose to harp on andignore all others and is the only reason its still going on. But in all fairness, It wasnt an opinion I formed out of "nowhere"... Some state agencies havestated that they had a problem with it. Take it up with them if you dontlike it.

"Kind of silly to argue this since the crossbow is likely gonna end up being used in PA and elsewhere because folks like you are generally the best thing that the anti movement can come up with."

And far better thananything YOU can come up with. Care to breech all the "maleffects" that upuntil now you've purposely and decietfully avoided? ha ha ha. I thought not.
--------------------------------------

FROM NEW YORK CONSERVATION OFFICERS ASSOCIATION.:

"The New York Conservation Officers Association was founded to promote "Conservation for Future Generations". With our commitment to ensure that future generations of New Yorkers will enjoy an abundance and variety of wildlife, we promote an adherence to the highest levels of outdoor ethics and sporting methods, and encourage respect for our wildlife and other natural resources.
We believe that management of our wildlife resources should be based on sound biological principles, population dynamics, and sustained yield principles. We feel strongly that this management should not be influenced by the profit margins of industry.
We, as officers sworn to protect our state’s wildlife, have concerns that poaching trends may be influenced by the legalization and advancing technology of crossbows. Because of this advancing technology, Ragnar Benson, the most well-known, self-proclaimed poacher on the North American Continent, has embraced the crossbow. Benson, the author of "Survival Poaching" and "Hardcore Poaching", has now published a book about the use of crossbows for various purposes, including the illegal taking of game. It is inevitable that, if crossbows come into widespread use, their use for poaching will become a problem for us to contend with. The proponents and manufacturers of crossbows have always maintained that the crossbow is not an effective implement for poaching, and that it would never gain prominence for that purpose. We, of course, disagree. The only factor that has prevented the crossbow from becoming a significant problem for wildlife enforcement officers is that not many people own them. If their use becomes legal, and ownership increases, we are certain to see their use also increase for the illegal taking of game. We would agree that the crossbow is not the most effective implement for poaching. However, when the violators consider the fact that their chances of getting caught will be considerably reduced because no shots will be heard or reported if they use a crossbow, they are certain to take up its use for their illegal activities. Why should this type of person have any concern over the fact that they may wound a few animals before they are able to take one into possession? When the chances of discovery have been almost completely negated by not using the traditional firearm and relying on the silence of the crossbow, the poacher may confidently continue to take additional shots at game that has been missed and remains undisturbed. If they hit and wound an animal and it runs off, they can simply continue their search for another victim until they are successful, because no concerned citizen will hear any shots to report to the authorities. The poacher would not be best served by the most efficient weapon at his disposal, when another best reduces his chances of being caught. Taking this into consideration, the crossbow could readily become the most effective poaching implement."


Hmmm. Interesting. Take note of red areas I highlighted for your convenience. Again, Nywco statement and views, not mine.;)

RE: PA Regulations??
 

Now I gotta go, so before you go runnin off at the chops making excuses about this or that or blah blah blah, I'll address your post ahead of time as appropriately and with as much consideration as Im sure it will undoubtedly deserve.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

Crossbow Hunting Laws and Regulations for all 50 States

Cornelius:
above is a website i found that may help ya out? (read all disclaimers before ya get too carried away) It has a 2008 trademark date at the bottom so all info should be correct as of this year. It will make your "Opinions" seem a bit more legitimate than using the old "Poaching" excuse for why you think crossbows not be legalized

RE: PA Regulations??
 

How is giving me a link that only confirms exactly what Ive said have anything to do with anything? As I said, the huge majority of states dont allow xguns for everyone during archery. That link shows what most of us already know.

Crossbows shouldnt be legal because we dont need more harvest in Pa. We who arent seeking shortcuts shouldnt be forced to put up with fewer and lower age class bucks. Its not a bow and doesnt belong. Rifle hunters shouldnt have to put up with even fewer.MOREbuck shouldnt be killed prior to the rut. Degrading the quality of the hunt by adding slobs and many more huntersand causing a circus atmosphere. Padding manufacturers bank accounts shouldnt be reason forimplementation. Not right to teach our youth "If something requires effort, dontput it forth, change the rules". And they can already be usedexactly as they should be. In firearms seasons. Thenwe can also add very likelyincrease in poaching according to New YorkConservation OfficersAssociation as yet one more of many.;)

Some may disagree with one, two, or more. But it onlytakes ONE reason tosupport NOT including them, when there is absolutely no good reason for inclusion other than a crutch to take the place of skill.;)

RE: PA Regulations??
 

not a bow?

RE: PA Regulations??
 

That device was and still is ILLEGAL to use in PA.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

i see very little diffrence between these and crossbows.then take the recurve and compare it to a compound. very little diffrence other than naggers who are crying how more people will be in the woods and might get their big buck before they do. nothing more than that reason they dont want them. poaching has nothing to do with it. just a lame excuse to keep them out of season.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

i dont think it will be much longer. what ya think? just making comparison that crossbow is a crossbow and not a gun for those who are confused of what is what.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

Isn't that the mentality that is destroying the American way of life??
Barney Frank was a prime (or sub-prime) example of it.
No Money??.....NO PROBLEM. We will lend you the money anyway, backed by the Federal Government of course!

RE: PA Regulations??
 

If you bolt enough add-ons onto anything, you can make it into whatever you want.
I bet I could make a bow shoot blackpowder without much effort, and some duct-tape.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

you would have to add a barrel also. you can take an arrow and put it down the barrel of a single shot shotgun or muzzleloader and it will still be a gun and not a bow. we all are intelligent enough to know what a gun is compared to a bow as in form. well most of uscan anyway.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

I dont think a crossgun is fully a gun. Id say for accuracy sake it would be best described as a "hybrid" Between a gun and bow. Not a gun and not a bow...

But closer to gun than bow.;):D

RE: PA Regulations??
 

no barrel and uses a string to launch a 14 to 22 inch projectile without powder,far cry from a gun. like i said,some dont know the diffrence between round and square shaped objects.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

String and arrow type projectile but Stock, rifle scope, self contained trigger. No need to draw. Pointed and shootand shouldered exactly like a gun.

Like I said. hybrid.

You cant turn a sow ear into a silk purse no matter how much you stomp and hold your breath.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

So who bougt Ragnar Benson? nad here we go relying on a self proclaimed criminal whpo wrote 2 books on paching and coming out w. a third to make a statement of belief regarding the Cross Bow and Poaching?/ Ha-ha-ha-ha
Come on anyone can write that crap, James Michener , book called Chesapeak talks about duck poaching and the family that was breaking the law. PLease

RE: PA Regulations??
 

The article only mentioned Ragner and his nonsense. The rest had nothing to do with him. He also didnt write the article. It was from the New York CONSERVATION OFFICERS association.;)

RE: PA Regulations??
 

crossbow= bow says so in name
a gun is a firearm where is the fire in crossbow

RE: PA Regulations??
 

Sorry, but "bow" doesnt have "cross" in its name.:D

"where is the fire in crossbow"

Thats what happens when you put the rifle stock to your sholder, place the xgun stock on your knee or monopod (or truck window) and pull the trigger.... You "FIRE".:D

RE: PA Regulations??
 

i guess any bow is a gun because you FIRE IT
the stock comon you got to do better than that
i guess if you put a stock at the end of a sharp stick
and throw it at a deer it would still be a gun to you
hope to retire my switchback next yr

RE: PA Regulations??
 

No it wouldnt be a gun. And just like a crossbow, it wouldnt be a bow either.


Instead of being a "hybrid" cross of a gun and bow like a crossbow, your new invention would be a bizarre cross between a gun and stick.

Although your stick with the gunstock would probably be closer to being considered a bow than a crossbow is since you didnt say anything about having a built in trigger, detachable monopod or a rifle scope on it.;)

RE: PA Regulations??
 

LANSE, you have to admit,the above is intertesting and i guess is happening where crossbows are available

RE: PA Regulations??
 

Sproulman:
1) What exactly do you find so interesting about that post? I find the whole article to be quite disgusting considering that the New Yuk conservation officers assoc is calling the hunting public a bunch of poaching sneaks,that are out of control and given another form of weaponry will just make them have to work all the more diligently at capturing them. That article is what gives organizations like PETA fuel for their fire
2) Where in that article did you read anything that gives you the idea that poaching is happening in areas that allow the use of crossbows?

RE: PA Regulations??
 

rem, only place i heard that POACHING was happening with crossbows , was at RAYSTOWN LAKE IN RESTRICTED AREAS.

the ranger said they found 41 bolts from crossbow.

now, if you read my post, i said the thompson contender 222/223 was latest weapon being used by the hard core poachers.

if you read what i said , i dont hate crossbow ,i hate all new crossbow hunters that will be in early archery season and many that think they can shoot 60 yds.

i was at wal-mart yesterday.

i heard a hunter who says he kills a lot of deer each year.
he goes from county to county.

he said,HEY THOSE CROSSBOWS CAN SHOOT 60 YDS, JUST AIM OVER DEERS BACK AND SHOOT.[:@]

that is awful to think that there are going to be people doing that.[:@]

now, in my area, only place i think a crossbow will be used is near a home or PARK.

shoot the deer with crossbow, let your buddy out of truck, you disappear for 1 hr, come back and load deer up.

now, crossbows dont have to be legal to do this.anyone can get crossbow and letting them legal MAY increase the number of this type of person but i still think the rifle and now the best one PISTOL

making it LEGAL to carry PISTOL in archery season and while SPOTLIGHTING is one big mistake, for sure.


AGAIN, I WAS COMMENTING TO THAT ARTICLE BECAUSE IT WAS CONSERVATION OFFICERS THAT SAID CROSSBOW WILL BE THE WEAPON OF CHOICE.

i dont 100% agree with that because if that was true, thats what they would be using MOST now, its not ,the THOMPSON CONTENDER PISTOLin 223/222 is weapon of choice now out the window of truck for poaching and road hunting. [:@]

RE: PA Regulations??
 

I feel so much better about myself now my THOMPSON CONTENDER PISTOLis in 30-30 no poaching here.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

This crossbow thing is another cancer of our AR and trophy hunters. The trophy hunters want an earlier chance at shooting a trophy buck and the bow hunters don't want the competition.

Plain and simple, it's all about greed, so I shake my head at the reasons for and against crossbows.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

go to front of class

RE: PA Regulations??
 

In a state such as PA where you can only shoot one buck per year,does any reason butraising revenuemake any sense?:eek: