RE: PA Regulations??
 

Won't do it as poachers just get out of jail and hit the woods again. 2D has had major poaching problems and i think the PAPGC gives up on the frequent flyers cause they can't stop them. You can't get blood from a stone and if I got no money I become a hardship case. Revocation of a license means nothing to a poacher, it means something to people who are law abiding and make a stupid mistake. PAPGC is making money off those small violations faster than off major poaching. So who they gonna go after for a mistake and money????????????? Why do you think on the whole hunters do not have a good experience w/ the PAPGC? Because you are guilty or made to feel that way from the time they stop you to look at your tag!

RE: PA Regulations??
 

I think we, "Pennsylvania" made our mistake years ago. We should have never allowed the inclusion of compound bows to be allowed in archery season. We could have called our archery season a primitive season and drew a line in the sand. The modern compounds that we use today can hardly be considered primative. Without being a hypocrite, we can not argue that a crossbow is not a primative weapon. Sometimes we are our own worst enemies. I do not care for the use of cross bows in archery season either but I don't know what grounds I have to argue why they should not be included.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

What most most people are missing is the fact that its not the weapon,its the slob using it.
Just as you don't ban spinning reels when you catch a guy with ten trout .Banning
X bows will not stop deer poaching. [:o]
The typical slob is not going to go buy a new X bow to poach with when the trusty thurdy thurdy is behind the bedroom door.:eek:

RE: PA Regulations??
 

bwana, exactly!

RE: PA Regulations??
 

Somewhere there is a guy that shoots the deer in his yard with a paintball gun.
Shall we have full paintball inclusion? That would bring a ton of new blood into the sport for sure.
That would be a real money maker, so let's get it done.
Money rules.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

There's no need to bring Bluebeard2 into this thread .

RE: PA Regulations??
 

Believe me I don't want to see them legal in PA but I haven't that seen that will of the hunters is even taken into consideration when the P.G.C. is about to make a decision on whats good or bad for Pa's hunting community.

I feel its strictly about dollars and nonsense. :eek:

RE: PA Regulations??
 

I think you may be onto something.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

douge, DONT LET THE CROSSBOWERS HERE YOU SAY THAT OR YOU WILL BE IN SAME BOAT I AM WITH THEM.

i can shoot 20 yds in my basement with crossbow and PUT ARROW IN SAME HOLE SHOT AFTER SHOT.;)

RE: PA Regulations??
 

I AGREE, MOST OF CROSSBOW poaching IS DONE AROUND THE PARKS OR PRIVATELAND WHERE A GUN WILL BE HEARD.

ON STATELAND, I DONT HEAR TO MUCH OF CROSSBOW USED FOR POACHING, THE WEAPON OF CHOICE NOW FOR POACHING IS THOMPSON CONTENDER.

remember you can have PISTOL in truck while spotlighting.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

as long as you can carry a THOMPSON CONTENDER pistol in your truck and spotlight LEGALLY with LTCP,poaching will get much worst.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

Sheesh

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yes, isnt it DISGUSTING

RE: PA Regulations??
 

Is a contender a conceiled weapon?I would think that would be beat down in court if the guy was busted.Has he ever been pulled over with it in his posession while spotlighting?

If you're going to poach at night from a vehicle,what advantage to you have by using a contender?Why not just use a rifle.If you get pulled over and searched,both will easily be found.

It was good that the legislature turned over that stupid law,making it illegal to spot light while in possesion of a conceiled weapon.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

YES,from what i heard from deputy,they could do nothing about his T/C pistol with scope on.[:@]that is GUN he uses to poach too.233/222 cal.
from what i hear, a poacher was pulled over for SPOTLIGHTING illegally after hrs.

i think rule says you cant have rifle in truck When spotlighting but you can carry A PISTOL.

NOW, i heard this poacher had a thompson contender and a PISTOL PERMIT.

IS THIS LEGAL, CORRECT ME IF WRONG.

douge,these poachers are way ahead of all of us ,they find a way around rules.;)

RE: PA Regulations??
 

I agree that the poachers are scum and it's very hard to catch them.However,the guy would be poaching whether or not if he was allowed to carry a conceiled weapon.

If you look at the law,it really doesn't define specifically what a conceiled weapon is.i would think that a WCO would be able to charge a guy and argue in court that a scoped contender is not a conceiled weapon.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

poaching comments are funny on here. no one is going to go buy a crossbow just for poaching. they would not be any easier to poach a deer with than a regular bow. your not shooting a crossbow out of the window. you have to get out to have room to shoot it. poachers don't use high powered rifles for poaching either. 22s with subsonic ammo is the choice for serious poachers. out to45 yrds a head shot will drop them in their tracks. no noise to be heard, take gun home come back for deer. all this gibberish about poachers useing this and that is just gibberish. pro poachers know how to do it and do it right. they are way ahead of you all. don't even need a spotlight,cheap night vision scope and you have someone who would prob never get caught. how many roads or back roads you have drove down and never seen a car or between 8 and 5 working hrs? poaching isnt very hard to do if someone wanted to do it. how many deer does poachers take a year? not enough to even put a dent in the deer herd, like a penny dropped in a 55gal drum. not a dent. more deer are killed by cars than poachers. yes try to say these weapons will invite poachers is just excuses that people are making up to help try to stop the crossbow introduction. its to late,crossbows are coming and nothing anyone can do about it. its about time. we need to catch up with the rest of the states in modernized weapons and new rules and laws. i am tired of the 50s and 60 laws we still have. legalize all weapons for hunting. lets move forward into the future because the past is no longer here.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

Here, here, petropedro. I applaud all the hunting groups that have moved in a forward directionto sharing the woods for more than just a solitary type of weapon hunting. I had a blast flinting this year and absolute blast. But i would not shut someone out for hunting an inline. What was the weapon of choice for poachers prior to the hated Xbow? Must have been an inline.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

"no one is going to go buy a crossbow just for poaching."

Sure they will. And they would bereally stupidnot to. Its the perfect poaching tool. Of course I dont see it much better if they also decide to use it in a legal manner for half the time.;)

"they would not be any easier to poach a deer with than a regular bow."

Far easier to shoot. Far easier to use from a vehicle. Far easier period.

"your not shooting a crossbow out of the window. you have to get out to have room to shoot it. "

Better check your tape measure and measure most full sized vehicle windows! That is simply a false statement.

Crossbows are a poachers dream tool.

There are many maleffect to crossgun implementation and VERY few bright spots.

Bad: Loss of tradition, probably eventual shortening of seasons, less buck and lower age of bucks due to added buck harvest, more doe harvest, most likely more poaching though exact extent is debatable, brings in more slobs, more crowded woods in a time cherished for the peace andsolitude, causing rift among hunters, more mature bucks going nocturnal, loss of legislative voice in matters due to majority being xgun hunters like occurred in ohio...etc. etc. etc.

Good?:Pgc doesnt get spanked by a few legislators who want them, and xgun companies hit the financialjackpot.

Good? [:'(]

RE: PA Regulations??
 

Well then let's have open hunting fom Oct 1 to Feb 1, any weapon, no rules. That should do.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

Pa Crossbowers have plenty of opportunities. sras, muzzleload season and rifle.

Better yet, canned preserve hunts. No bothersome effort necessary.:D

RE: PA Regulations??
 

Don't forget that they can alsobe used all muzzleloader season.That's more thanadequate.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

Cornelius08, DougEand the rest. You can use your bow in any season you want. I am limited so you do have the upper hand on length of season.So again you show your elitism in passing judgenment on my choice of weapons. But hey,seriously now, [>:]line those deer up in the pen, in the front yards, in the city xquare I don't care. Just get out of the way as I don't have to practice just point in the general direction and shoot!!I by all kinds of licenses for PA,I work 40 hours a week, I don't want o work for a deer, heck they are all over the place. Since I don't have to have any skills, you should with your canny woodsmanship be able to find all those wounded deer I sling bolts at............Like i said in another thread you want tradition hunt w/ astick bow, breech cloth and moccasins and trace your indian ancestory for proof to get a bow license. Otherwise that argument don't hold water pilgrim. Xbows rule!

RE: PA Regulations??
 

"You can use your bow in any season you want. I am limited so you do have the upper hand on length of season."

THis is Pa and you are whining for crossbow legalization here. You live in Ohio. You have a longer season there to use your crossrifle than we have here to use our real bows due to fewer hunters and no rifle season. You also have much better buck quality in Ohio. Im sorry, but given all that, Im just fresh out of sympathy for you.

You dont like our season structure? Dont hunt here. That simple. For most of us it "works" and has for some time. As for season lengths being equal, they arent nor should they be. Archery is long for a reason. Muzzleloaders and crossguns have the next highest possible days afield and rifles have the shortest time. The more efficient the weapon, the less time, that simple.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

Well buck hunter,I work about 60 hours a week and find plenty of time to practice,scout and actually hunt for deer.As far as your wounded deer,track them yourself.

Crossbows are an easy cop out.If you want to use one,keep it in Ohio where you're allowed to shoot them over feeders.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

BH1 As I said before, why not simply stay where you are in Ohio with your crossbow? You have said you don't want to put in the time. Here's an idea, save some driving time too! The crossbow is the center of the issue here but PA doesn't needthe crossbow, you, or your attitude[:'(]

RE: PA Regulations??
 

Ancient and archaic is what comes ot mind when I think of anything having to do w/ PAPGC and it's rules. I'm hunting in PA, don't worry about that one my friend. I spend a ton for deer licenses to fill the freezer and have ground there. Again, my and other more modern hunters will buy what we need, enhance the hunting opportunities to more than am elite few bow huntersm and get deer. It's funny how you say OH deer buck population is great. We coexist w/ other hunting types and still pull massive racks and deer out. Yea, I know crops etc. but look in eastern and SE OH and you will see habitat same as PA. Did you think maybe it's the way the program and people have run the deer program in the past, closed minded and using antiquated systems and ideas that might have done that? An example isthe OTC license sales, states all around you have them installed and running for years, PA well that is it's own story....... Maybe w/ progressive thinking and ideas that outsiders bring to the table PA can make a deer herd comeback, however w/ feelings and thoughts as expressed by a few here who seem to think the majority should be listening to them only, I beleive you will still be complaining,and maintaining your "the woods, it's mine, mine all mine" attitudes as your game hunting keeps going down hill. I will always hunt in PA, no matter where i live. But that does not mean I will not be lobbying w/ what resources I can to see and make change that I and others feel would be for the betterment of the game program.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

RE: PA Regulations??
 

Well Corny, I'm with ya 100% on this one!!

BH1, like I said, don't like things in Pa? Good! Stay home! Sell your property in this dump and save your gas money. We'll manage somehow without you.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

Sounds like the same ole "Pa BS Rhetoric" to me,,,and whats more,,,most of the guys pissin and moanin about x-bows bein legalized are the same guys that have been pushin "thin the herd" for the last 6 years,,,(not that x-bows will kill any more deer than the common recurve). I cant believe a true hunter would try to limit another hunter as to what he/she may use to pursue their love ofthe sport. X-bows have been legal here in Va. for i think 5 years and i have yet to see 1 hunter with a x-bow on public lands (which i hunt alot) and to try to push the idea that legalizing x-bows will somehow intise hunters to road hunt is totally absurd! But then again,,,you have the few like "Ole Sproulman" who has somehow reincarnated himself to the likes of "Robin Hood" who shoots 5 shots into the same hole with his x-bow that will keep this kinda BS Rhetoric filling the hunting forums

RE: PA Regulations??
 

Oh yeah and before ya say it,,,you can put me in the same boat as BH1 and make me stay here where the oppurtunities and deer are many,,,I like to be able to use whatever whenever,,even tho i have not had the opportunity to use a x-bow for deer,,,i bet it would tilt some off their center to know that i can use my ruger 10-22 to shoot squirells

RE: PA Regulations??
 

60$ 22 compared to 300+$ crossbow for poaching. must be some stupid poachers out there. 22 is quieter than crossbows with subsonic ammo. it is quieter than an air gun. an air gun can kill a deer out to 50yrds. but the 22 is cheaper to use. like i said, poaching deer is not hard to do and no poacher would go out of their way to buy an expensive crossbow just for poaching when his 22 has been doing the job for how long now? bulky crossbow that takes 15 to 22 inch bolts or a slender rifle with a pocket of ammo? tough choice for a poacher to make.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

we can use 17 calibers and 22 calibers here to hunt deer but not in rimfire. 10-22 would be fun to hunt squirrels with.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

BH1, how dare you have an opinion that differs from BTforumdominator's!

RE: PA Regulations??
 

RE: PA Regulations??
 

It isn't hard to do considering it has a rifle stock and you can rest it on a bench like a gun. My father uses one due to injuries he sustained to his hands. He uses it b/c he has to if he wants to archery hunt. He has said himself it isn't a true archery weapon and he hates not being able to bow hunt as he used to. The first time I shot his X bow I held a 1/2 group in my first 3 shots. Boy what an achievment, I guess I could be Robin Hood too after a dozen shots.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

crossbow is used to poach at parks mostly or places that are private where a gun shot will be heard.

look at how many crossbow bolts were found at 1 of our parks ,i believe i read 43 bolts were found.


but, the THOMPSON CONTENDER pistol is now weapon of choice in 223/222 caliber.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

petropedro, I pay over 1000 for my bow set ups and I dont even have to worry about being arrested because Im not a poacher. I have no doubt a poacher would do the same with so much to lose.

Why on earth wouldnt a poacher buy one if they could use them both legally in season AND out of season for poaching if they so chose?;) On the other hand, it wouldnt reallly pay for them to pay that much CURRENTLY when they arent even supposed to be in the woods with them.;)

As for your 22 "subsonic" theory I say BULLSQUAT!

I use many of the low velocity 22s for trapping and some of them wont even kill a danged trapped coon with the barrel inches from its head! Ive seen coon need be shot 4 times or more with the bullet not even penetrating the skull with rounds like minicaps etc. Let alone a large buck at 20 to 50 yards! And the rounds I use that do kill coon readily have the barrel a foot from its head and the skull is thinner by far than a deers.

Crossbows are the poacher dream tool. Im not some asnine poacher but If I were, I GUARANTEE i would have one. ITs the best tool for the job. Plenty effective unlike hit or miss kills with "subsonic 22 crap" and quieter than everything else that is easy and convenient to use.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

poacher wants a QUICK KILL so he can load deer up and get out of there.

using say a 22 mag , he aims for head of deer.

deer will go right down.

nows, on crossbow, he has to take a behind shoulder shot,most likely the deer is going to run away at night,poacher takes a chance at getting caught.

respectfully to you, you are right but i feel the 22 mag is one they use most unless a shot will alert others like in a state park area or near homes .

RE: PA Regulations??
 

"Sounds like the same ole "Pa BS Rhetoric" to me,,,and whats more,,,most of the guys pissin and moanin about x-bows bein legalized are the same guys that have been pushin "thin the herd" for the last 6 years,"

Not me chief. Im 100% against the extent of hr we have gotten.

"I cant believe a true hunter would try to limit another hunter as to what he/she may use to pursue their love ofthe sport."

If a "true hunter" loved their sport, they wouldnt need additional provisions made to practice it. Theyd already be huntin' with the legal weapon.

"X-bows have been legal here in Va. for i think 5 years and i have yet to see 1 hunter with a x-bow on public lands (which i hunt alot) "

Virginia is roughly the size of Pa at 42,769 sm. Pa is 46,058. Virginia has around 300,000 TOTAL HUNTERS. Pa over 900,000. Any questions?;)

Try hunting Ohio. xguns are all you see everywhere. Including those who like to circle the national forest roads throughout the day by vehicle.[:'(]...and they still have just over half the hunters Pa does.