PA Regulations??
 

A buddy told me that they are voting to allow crossbows next year in PA. Does anyone know the updates on this? Also, someone mentioned to me about in-lines in the late muzzleloader season. If the PA game commission continues to have the attitudethat killing more deer is better, then I can see them voting both in. Any info would be great.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

I believe the meeting is January 29th.
I am dreading this decision as I have about as bleak an outlook as they come in regards to letting X-bows in. I see NOTHING good coming of it. I hate it with all my being.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

Inlines in the late season? Is nothing sacred anymore?
x-guns are coming, get used to that one.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

i see them both as tools for hunters to choose from

RE: PA Regulations??
 

The decision is yours and it's called choice. You will have the option to choose wether you do or do not want to use a X-bow. Should a recurve guy be upset because someone else uses a compound? I have mixed feelings on the subject too but I have figured it's an individual choice and what do I care what weapon the other guy is using as long as it's legal. If a guy wants to dress up like Danial Boone and use a Flntlock great for him, he is hunting and having a great time, likewise can be said for archery, heck dress up like an indian if you want and use a long bow. Just so your having fun I don't see that it really matters what weapon your fellow hunterdecides to use

RE: PA Regulations??
 

Crossguns arent bows, and they have no place in bow season. They belong in rifle season.

An unmotivatedfew people looking for a shortcut into 6 weeks of fall hunting, along with manufacturers looking to crack into the huge Pennsylvania hunting market are the only few lobbying for this nonsense. Also noteworthy, theexactsame commissioners on the board who are the "antideer" treehuggers on the commission are the ones who preliminarily voted yes for xguns at the last meeting.

We hardly need more harvest either, which Im pretty certain they will bring as well. Sure they could adjust the allocation, but remember, we are talking about the PENNSYLVANIA GAMELESS COMMISSION. The ones who believe the only good deer is a dead deer. They won't make the necessary adjustments to allocations, heck they won't even do that now.

Worse yet, the added buck harvest. Cant adjust allocations to fix that anyway.

No to crossrifles.[:'(]

RE: PA Regulations??
 

"The decision is yours and it's called choice"

And many exercised their "choice" of contacting pgc and telling them they do not support crossguns....As always these days when it comes to notkilling more deer, the hunters werent heard by pgc.

Pallone, the worst commissioner to ever sit on our pgc boc said that they received lots of "no votes" from hunters, but she felt it is because hunters did not want more deer killed. So she basically ignored us and voted YES in her prelim. vote.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

they want deer all killed off,so it most likely will pass it.

using in-lines in late season, another way to get a lot more hunters in woods killing off what deer are left.


THE MASTER PLAN BY THE DCNR/PGC IS TOO KILL OFF ALL DEER THAN CAN IN STATE.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

if seasons were like before,3 days of doe only, no early doe, i could see using the in-lines,crossbows etc.

but, to allow more weapons that can kill better, only reason for that is to get rid of deer.

right now you can use in-line or crossbow in regular gun season.

isnt 2 weeks enough, it wiping out deer now.

look what the early in-line season is doing to doe.1 whole week in oct to wipe doe out.

its SEASONS LENGTH THAT I OBJECT TOO on doe killing.

we have more time to kill a doe now than we did when we had 10 times number of doe,it should be the OTHER way around.[:@]

there should only be 3 days of doe killing in wmu2g, THATS IT.

let hunters use any weapon , but only 3 daysfollowing the regular buck 2 week season.;)


also 1 deer and your done in wmu2g

RE: PA Regulations??
 

Just because the PGC approves something or gives out 3/4 million doe permits does not mean the hunter must do it or try and fill all the tags. When will hunters get it ?? the future of pa hunting is in our hands,not a group of political cronies. I ceased hunting with a now x-friend when he told me this year,Hey the PGC gives me the right to kill as many does in 5c I want and that makes it legal. And I am going to kill what I deserve.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

Choice, the deer still have to there when you hunt. I see no shortage of does in 2D absolutely no shortage of deer at all. I shoot compound and Xbow as well as Inline and flintlock. My choice what to pick up and head into the woods with that day. MY CHOICE on MY GROUND! I have seen the egotistical bow hunting community degrade the Xbow experience and start the war.They have absolutely no room for anyone else in the woods but themselves. That includes small game hunters by the way! If you are a purist as you guys state, drop the compound and go stick bow!!!!!!!!!!!! You wonder why the PAPGC gets over? Keep making anti hunting statements like those above by the same anti Hunting supposed PA sportsmans group! Sproul I agree w/ the 3 day doe hunt 100%, but it will never be again. I think the last week of the 2 week gunseason we had in 2D is what we will all see next year.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

You try to diminish the topic of x-bow inclusion, but the fact is that the ramifications of the change to deer management will be large. It has nothing to do with one weapon over another. The effects are the only concern.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

There isa proposal to add crossbows to the regular archery season.It will most likely pass imo.

There is no proposal to add inlines to the flintlock season.A bill was started last year but it died a quick death.We won't be seeing that in the near future.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

I am not worried about X-bows killing too many deer that is for sure. The rifle season will always take the lion share. I am against X-bows on principle in that they are not a BOW. They are cocked and fired from the shoulder. I am also worried about the detrimental effects of additional hunters in the woods and the enjoyment of the overall hunting experience. Hunting natural deer movements and enjoying the woods without them being overcrowded will be over. You will have gang drives and more people in the woods than ever over the course of the fall.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

That is why they are x-guns or bolt-guns to me.
They store the energy with no fatigue factor to the shooter.
They anchor to the shoulder and have fixed sights front and rear that are not affected by shooting form.
They release by trigger.

GUN.

Say what you will. If they are legal I will probably end up using one someday when I am older.
Regardless, I still don't think they should be legal in BOW season.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

I see two sides to the Xbow debate. One side of me sees the obvious, the PGC doing whatever they can to get more hunters in the woods and buying a license. This means introducing new weapons, seasons, bag limits, etc. Face it, they know they're losing hunters by the truck loads.

The thing that bothers me most about the xbow is that many, many guys believe they can shoot further and more accurately with one. Which, if anyone has ever shot one or tried to sight one in knows, is simply not true. They're no more effective than a compound.I fear that this mentallity will lead to more marginal shots taken and ultimately more wounded deer.

On the other hand there might be less wounded deer because the average joe who picks his bow up a week before season and heads to the woods will tote a crossbow, which you really don't have to "practice" with in the sense that its more of a gun rather than a bow.

I don't know, I am leaning more toward no crossbows because it just doesn't operate like a bow, compound or traditional. I'm a compound guy but I don't hold myself on a pedestal. I have no qualms with the use of crossbows, just the mentality that usually comes with them.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

I am dead against allowing everyone to use xbows. Let those who have disabilities have the advantage of using an xbow. Take that from them then what edge do they have. Those who need it should have the ability to use them, those who don't can hunt archery just as we have always done. A weapon with a scope, firearm trigger and capable of shooting without any practice and little skill has no place in the same season with a traditional bow or compound. I hunt archery for the challenge and by allowing xbows I feel the season will become exactly what rifle season is.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

I own one and have killed several deer with one. All in gun season.

Having experience with both gives me a better perspective than some.

trying to be fair here.....

Gun like features of the crossbow...

Stored energy.
ready to shoot when game appears.
easy to learn to shoot.
fired from the shoulder and can utilize a rest.
easily shot from a sitting, kneeling, offhandor prone position

Bow like feaures......

Needs to be as close as a conventional bow
Kills by hemmorage not by shock necessitating more precise shot placement than a firearm requires.

advantages over a conventional bow.....

Minimal movement required in presence of game
no chance of fatigue from holding at full draw
can be shot effectively from many more body positions than a conventional bow
easy to learn

disadvantages to the crossbow.....

noisy
bolts are less stable especially at longer ranges
less accurate from offhand position without a rest than a bow in most hands

The claim by crossbow proponents that it is still a close range weapon are true but sadly thats not the message that the industryseems to promote.
It's relatively easy to pick one up and be reasonably accurate with it in an afternoon. I practice year round with my compound but only need to shoot a few nolts each year with the crossbow.

The problem as I see it is that hunting with a broadhead tipped projectile is a sport that requires a considerably higher level of responsibility and commitment. The hunters willing to make that commitment already have done so. The crossbow seems way too likely to attract those looking for the "easy way" to get in on the longer season.

By accepting the extra challenges that come with hunting with a conventional bow, a bowhunter "earns" a longer season. We are understandably concerend that the longer season we have earned might be shortened by those looking for an easier way. I have no problem withhunting by a less challenging method till it threatens the one that so many archers have worked so hard for.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

I don't see a problem with making them legal for Senior license hunters or something of that nature.
Add X-guns and Sunday hunting to Archery and see what the ramifications are......
SHORTER SEASON!

Kiss the rut goodbye!!

Bob, you are a little more patient with the issue than I am, andI totally respect your position.
I can plainly see the benefits of using a x-gun in firearms season to encroach Safety Zones where gun hunting can't touch.
I have NO problem with that. The whole existence of BOW season will be lost however,when they are included statewide.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

BTB, how gracious you are w/ praise for yourselves! Gawd, it must be great to sit in your treestand w/ yur compound and feel you have "earned" the rights ot be the only ones in the woods! I am hunitng small gane at the same time you are in that tree, but you probably don't feel I should be in your earned woods! You and your Org. are a trip! You play it like you are or use both weapons, but the entire comparison is slanting down hill for your compound boys to again have your own season. Forgetting that I pay for a license, pay taxes and have a voice and opinion. IN fact my opinion certaninly does not degrade other types of weapons nor ask for "my! earned right to be in the woods!" I don't care what you are in the woods with, we need more hunters in the woods. Agaoin, I will be humting w/ my Xbow next year in the woods at the same time you are, that was told to me by a source in Horton for you copnspiracy theories.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

i am gessing no one remebers when the trad long bow guys was saying the samething about compounds
will ruin there hunting bla bla bla the first year or 2 there was more guys out there then they found out
it wasnt as easy as they thought they hung there compounds and probaly a few still sit there all dusty
i think a x bow is just a tool sure there will be more guys out there the first year or 2 but then they
will find out its not as easy as gun you still have to get close do scouting be paitent there x bows will
sit in a closet or somewhere else not all will be ruined IMHO
i started with a trad bow compounds came out i got one of them still take old trad bow out every year
but do most of my hunting with the compound i will buy a x bow if it is passed and hunt with it
funny in pa almost anyone can say my shoulder hurts to the doctor sign this. in ny it almost impossible to get
one unless the only wat to release it is by breath
a good archer will ajust and overcome any challenges a xbow will bring

RE: PA Regulations??
 

Bowtruck, I was around for that one. Hunted (and killed a few deer) with the recurve before the compound came in. That WAS 35+ years ago and a lot has changed.

I'm not 100% against crossbows but if they are to be brought into regular bow season in a state with 300,000 hunters, we need to have a method of transition and to be able to reverse any trend that might lead to the shortening ofour already short season.


BH1

Why don't you just stay in your own beloved crossbow state? I did my best to be fair and to point out some valid concerns that are shared by many bowhunters including those that lobbied long and hard so that the likes of ungrateful outsiders like you could hunt in November with a bow in our state.

You're damned right we EARNED it!

RE: PA Regulations??
 

Great point about having "our own season" I would support the decision to allow Xbows in their "own" season similar to flintlock compared to inline muzzleloader but just because you choose the easiest stringed weapon as what you prefer doesn't mean allowing Xbows has any benefit to the "archery" experience.
Young hunters should learn tradition and have a sense of pride in that tradition.Show them the easy way and that's what they will prefer to do, too few youth today have any work ethic and promoting this method of hunting contributes to exactly that. No one can argue it takes alot more dedication to be proficient with a long bow than with a string gun. It's sad for me to see youeither never had or have already lost your sense of pride in the sport of archery.
Another thing... If Xbows are allowedit needs to be mandated that anyone using one has to pass theBowhuntercourse. Anything less would be completely irresponsible on the behalf of the Game Commission.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

i has been that long hasent wheres the time go
i understand the concern but think it will work out in the wash

RE: PA Regulations??
 

I agree that there will be an initial rush followed by a glut of crossbows for sale in the local classified ads.

When muzzleloaders were first legalized and given their own season special season was designated in select game lands only. After they were legalized statewide, their use grew so fast that the antlerless deer harvest got to high in certain counties and the PGC decided to make a Muzzy hunter choose between a regular doe tag and a muzzy stamp. The issue went away withthe advent of bonus tags and flintlock muzzy use has leveled off.

I would be OK with a slow start like they did with ML's back then but I'm against this all at once leap into uncharted waters. The staff and commissioners have all admitted that they really don't know what the impact will be. It doesnt make sense to jump right in under those circumstances.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

for a few years didnt they make you choose between archery and muzz
or was that something else

RE: PA Regulations??
 

I dont think they belong period. Slow, fast or medium implementation.

They arent bows. We definately don't need added harvest. Dont need LOSS of real bowhunters voice in legislation effecting bowhunters as has happened in ohio, with crossgun toters now the majority of archery season participantsout there.

It also creates a rift among sportsmen that lingers on and on. Its been many years since Ohio implemented them, and still there is great resentment about the issue still today among many ohio archers.

As for anyone who saysthat we just don't want them in the woods... Correct me if Im mistaken, but a man carrying a bow takes up just as much space as one carrying a crossgun. Noone is preventing him from filling that space out there in the autumn woods NOWother than himself.If one would rather sit on the sofa instead of in the woods because crossbows arent legal, then no, they do NOT deserve an additional 6 weeks afield in the nicest time of year. Put in the time and dedication and do it the right way. Dont beg for provisions to be made for cheap shortcuts.

I also disagree with the inital onslaught of xgun buyers then decline. Exactly the opposite occurred in ohio. Long gradual increase. Many will run out at first, then after the shock has worn off and some of the unacceptance wanes, slowly others follow suit in picking them up. Also more and more get "experience" with them by hearing stories from friends using them... Maybe Shooting abuddies crossgun....Lots of more affordable "used" xbowsfor first time buyers become commonplace..etc.

I don't think we would come close to seeing the full extent of how many would pick up the weapon until at least 8-10 years or so in.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

they never made you chose between archery and muzzy but when muzzys first came to PA, the growth rate exploded in a few short years causing the PGC to be concerned about the uncontrolled doe kill by the new muzzy hunters (hard to imagine now eh?)

What they did was put a limit on muzzy stamps and made a hunter surrender his doe license application in exchange for the muzzy stamp.

Also for a time. muzzyseason got shortened to 4 days.

At that time, early archery was 4 only 4 weeks long usually ending around November1.Late archery Started Dec 26 and ended very shortly afterNew year.

Ever since the early archery season was extended into November(which happened in the early 90's), there have been repeated efforts to take back that last two weeks by jealous, rifle only, hunters.Don't beleive for a minute that the coming of the crossbow won't refuel those fires

RE: PA Regulations??
 

"causing the PGC to be concerned about the uncontrolled doe kill by the new muzzy hunters (hard to imagine now eh?) "

Yep. Pgc actually having been concerned about overharvest at one time... Hard to believe. But that was before ecoextremists ran the ship.

I agree about rifle hunters outcry likely to increase. And I cannot blame them one bit. When you consider the extreme unnecessary reductions that equal WAAAY fewer deer for them, then add greatly to the pre-rifle season ranks with xguns...

Id say there is a legit gripe there. I don't rifle hunt at all. But I see no good in riling up thethe majority...who are the rifle hunters. Doing so will lead to things not favorable to our season. We have been getting by just fine without crossguns.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

i do agree we have been getting along without crossbows
but most americans these daays are lazy there probaly not crossbows are not guns .
going to take the time do scout and get deer close
to the gun hunters that whine we have first choice i say
yeah so by a bow and dedicate the time i do to shooting scouting
trimming woods instead of picking up gun on thaanksgiving shooting
a couple times and saying well thats meat in the frezzer
myself i shoot my bow most every day 10 months a year
but i used to shoot comps and stuff now i too old to run around
shooting all over

RE: PA Regulations??
 

Until bow hunters do their fair share of managing the herd ,they have no grounds for denigrating rifle hunters. In some WMUs bow hunters harvest over 50% of the buck before rifle hunters set foot in the woods. But, those same bow hunters do not harvest twice as many antlerless deer as antlered deer in those WMUs . So they harvest the best of the buck and leave the doe for the rifle hunters to kill.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

BTB, I never remember a limited supply of muzzleloading stamps. When was that? Also, when was the season only 4 days long?

RE: PA Regulations??
 

I can only say that it was in the early 80's. Looked back at the pic of my first flinchlock deer and it was inback of a house I lived in from 80 to 83.

The muzzy season then was only 4 days immediately following the two day doe season. I can't remember whether the limited numbers were in that same period but I think so.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

bb gun hunters have the same choice if they want they can buy the arch license
and go out early and take their chance at getting a buck
not denigrating gun hunters i am one but they have same opps to go out in archery
how can they complain

RE: PA Regulations??
 

For the same reason bow hunters are complaining about x-bow hunters Archers are harvesting a lot of buck that were once available for rifle hunters, now bow hunters are complaining that x-bow hunters may harvest buck that that bow hunters migh harvest or that their season might be shortened.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

BTB,

Are you sure your memory serves you correctly. Maybe mine doesn't but I have been using the flintlock since 1980 and I always remember the season just as it is now. That is starting on the day after Chistmas and lasting for a week and a half or a two week period. I never remember their being a limited supply of muzzleloading stamps. At one time there used to be a limited supply of doe licenses and I do rember a time when I had to forfit my doe license application as you have mentioned. I do know that the muzzleloading season was slowly introduced. For some reason 1974 seems to stick in my mind as the first year muzzleloaders were introduced.

RE: PA Regulations??
 

They really can't. And most gun only hunters are live and let live guys, but then there's those few thatare simply jealous that we get to hunt first. Even though they could do it just as we do , they don't want to work that hard at it.

It's kind of like the guy who only wants to work part time at Sheetz and drives an 88Cavalierbeing jealous when the contractor who works 80+ hours a week pulls in to get a coffee in his new $45,000 Silverado HD pickup

RE: PA Regulations??
 

bb maybe its archers that dont want to adjust but for me
i am on x bow sites looking them over
its just a tool

RE: PA Regulations??
 

I don't think the 4 day thing lasted more than a year or two but I remember it well because I had a real hassle getting that Friday off the year I killed my first muzzy deer. I just called the buddy that hunted with me and he remembers it was that way that year as well. As for the limit on numbers, you've now got me second guessing myself. Perhaps it was only something they proposed. Obviously weare both a bit long in the tooth and the steel trap memory I hadonce now sometimes seems more like a steel sieve;)

I am, however, 100% sure on the 4 day thing though! It did happen at least once.:D

RE: PA Regulations??
 

btb i dont know why they cant
i work up to 80 90 hrs a weekhaving a business has flaws ihave a family 4 kids
to each their own but why a select few complain is beyond my comp