Steve,
I am not familiar with NYS. Where is that. I guessit wasn't like that then all over the state when I started hunting then. I hunted in the southwest portion of the state in Greene, Fayette and Somerset counties. When hunting in Greene county the first Saturday of the season I remember I was sitting in a valley of State Game Lands and had so many deer run, the best estimate that I can give as at least 40 deer total from different groups ran in.

In your previous post you asked out of state hunters what their deer herd looked like. I am from New York state (NYS) and I can honestly say that I have never seen deer in such numbers in the more rural parts of the state. The same holds true for many of the more rural parts of the Northeast US. Many hunters see very few in an entire season, nevermind 30 or more in one day. You should consider yourself lucky that you have such a spot to hunt. Many people do not. In numerous areas of my home state they don't even issue doe permits. So with antler restrictions a person hunting an area like this could not shoot a doe and needed to wait for a buck of at least 6 or 8 points before he could take a shot. I would think it would be more wise for this person to stay in bed than to bother to go out and waste his time hunting.

In the old days when I use to hunt upstate at deer camp there was no concurrent buck/doe season and because I only got thereone week a year with no preseason scoutingI was lucky to see a buck. Some times three or four years in between bringing home a buck. NEVER once did I consider hunting a waste of time.The anticipation of the coming seasonand all that goes with it, the prep, equipment checks, sighting in the gun kept me coming back year after year.Time in the woods is never wasted!!!!!!!Deer or no deer.

Thats not what I have now, and I am glad that I don't. I am talking back when I first started hunting 18 years ago.

Even 25 years ago our adult breeding B/D ratio was around 1:2 and now it may be around 1:1.75 and that difference would not be noticed by a hunter in the field. As yet their is no evidence that ARs have produced the predicted results of higher breeding rates or productivity.


As yet, there is no credible evidence that shows the average weight or antler size of 2.5+ buck has increase. Any increase in the weight of the average buck being harvested can be attributed to the fact that it is illegal to harvest the smaller buck in each age class. There is also no evidence that shows the health of our herd ,as defined by the PGC ,has improved.

[quote]Even 25 years ago our adult breeding B/D ratio was around 1:2 This is about the best credible evidence that I could think of. I don't think these where the pictures we would have seen 10 years ago.

http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?a=519&q=173372

Actually that is not even being close to credible evidence. There are pictures in the PGN's going back to the 40 or 50's with racks which would easily match those pics.

OK I will agree with you on that, but I wasn't around in the 40s and 50s to compare. I was around in the late 80s and early 90s and I know what it was like then and I as well as others like the now.

What kind of credible evidence would you like then? To actually have one of those standing right in front of you to believe it?

I agree with you, I don't consider it a waste of time either. In many low deer density areas in my home state people are not allowed to shoot a doe and if they are only allowed to shoot a buck with 6 or 8 points they will be going deerless more times than not. If there isn't much for them to look forward to in terms of hunting success, I don't think their interest in hunting will be long lived. Yeah, I agree that hunting isn't all about killing, but then again there are plenty of other things someone could be doing instead of hunting and still be enjoying the outdoors and nature. Hunting is not the only way to enjoy nature. The truth is that hunting isn't all about killing something, but being successful will surely keep you interested in it way MORE than not being successful will!