OK let me say that I am far from an elitist and DO NOT trophy hunt. My biggest buck is a 9 pt with a 9" spread. I always shot the 1st buck by me until recently when I slightly upped the ante to "a racked buck" to make it more difficult. I have never looked down upon a person willing to shoot a small buck as I have done it, and know it is still rewarding. I was against all this AR thing when it started, but as I LEARNED more and thought about it I have figured out it is a good start. I am not praying for PA to turn into a big buck state. I don't feel that the particular guidlines of AR will do that, I think it takes much sticter AR rules and management to truly do that. What I do think will happen is make a little better distribution of sizes of bucks across the state. Everyone acts like another buck will never be shot in the mountains of PA. It will be bad one year, after that the majority will grow to be over the AR limit and things will be fine. If someone is happy with shooting a spike or 4 pt then fine, they will also be happy shooting an 8 pt. There will only be one year when the odds of seeing a legal buck will be slim, after that most the 2.5 will be over the AR and the odds go back up.

Now as to questioning my decision to start this topic.....This stuff goes on. It goes on more than people think. If you down play it or pretend it doesn't exist you are lying to yourselves. The behavior has turned me off to rifle hunting, I still do but it's not with quite the same intensity. If enough hunters can talk to "fellow hunters" and try to get them out of that mentality then maybe things can change. Other than the most remote sections of the state or some private land, rifle hunting in PA isn't hunting. It is setting up to play where the other people will push the deer, plain and simple. There may be no way around that with the sheer numbers of hunters. I feel that if less pressure is put on getting that buck then less people will succumb to slobish behavior. So much has been placed on getting that buck that people panic and do bad things. Hope this has shed a little more light on the situation.

njbowhunter, I am curious! I am wondering just what your credentials are, that you can state that Dr. Gary Alt is wrong! I may agree with you that the title to this thread could have been something else, but as a hunter in this state for 30 years now, I can safely make this statement. This is PA tradition, go to camp, get pig drunk, act like a jerk, shoot multiple times at deer, maybe walk more than 10yds. down the trail to determine whether we have connected. Don`t forget to roadhunt. No, I have not done these activities, just because I have never been given to drinking, but I have witnessed this behavior from many people, including those I used to call my friends. Yes. I am probably as guilty as them for not turning them in. I would do it now. That`s one thing about getting older, sometimes you actually do get smarter. Obviously not all hunters from our state are this way, but enough are to make it an embarrassment.

Wimp, I thought that you were making some good points, then you had to go insult Pennsylvania hunters. Do you realize that there are GOOD hunters in Pennsylvania. I am just tired of hearing the same thing, Pennsylvania hunters are

a. Lazy, but yet, we don't sit over piles of corn and food plots.
b. We trespass too much, but yet I don't see that and most people around here allow you to hunt there land.
c. We litter everywhere. That is just stupid, go to Little Mahonning stream. That is FULL of trash, so why aren't you complaining about fisherman.
d. Hunters from Pennsylvania are all slobs. Yeah, good thinking, thats almost true.

Take a look everywhere before seeing a few bad cases and assuming that all people are bad. From what you are saying, you are a BAD hunter. You hunt in Pennsylvania, so instantly, you are a bad hunter. COME ON!

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
P.S. Only Chuck Adams can sit at home and see deer so get into the woods. =;^)

Buck magnet you need to calm down bud. No where have I stated that ALL PA hunters are like this. If one out of 100 are like this that is too many. What I'm trying to get across is that if more of us "good" hunters can spread the ideals we practice, then things could even get better. We should ALL be offended at what these morons do and try to clean up our own sport from within. That's all I'm trying to get across.

And as for trout fishermen, they are worse yet, so I don't want to get started on that topic. Where do you fish on little Mahoning? Even though it's a little far from me I am there on one stretch or another almost every weekend during the summer.

I hunted Pa last Nov for the 1st time during gun season. I was on private property that was posted. I wasin a stand. What I observed(wished I had a video camera) was this.
#1. 2 people set up right on the edge of the property.
#2. I had a doe coming toward me along the edge of the corn field. I was getting ready to kill the doe. BANG! Doe goes down. Wait a minute I did not squeeze the trigger of my rifle. MAgic maybe. NOT. Then a pumpkin comes up to the fenced property line. Looks at the doe then lo and behold he sees the stand I am in. He jumps the fence.grabs the doe and drags it back across property lines. I should have called the authoritiues but nothing would have happened since I heard a vehicle leaving right away.

#3. Heard some commotion in the woods behund me. Looked into the woods and saw some orange moving around. Then HAHA a deer pops out of the woods and ends up in a service road that runs along the stand I was in about 65 yards away. The pumpkins heard the deer also. They couldnt see it clearly. I could. Bang! Dead deer! They start to head to where the deer was. I open up the door and get out of the stand. They decide to leave. I get to the deer and put my tag on it. While I did that they stood at the edge of the woods and watched.

#4. Another deer was running along the edge of the cornfield and one guy fired 4 shots at it. It finally turned around and went into an apple orchard and I saw it finally cross the road about 1 mile away. BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM etc

#5. In the 2 days I was there I saw around 30 people coming onto private property that was posted. Me and the 2 guys I was hunting with are the only ones with permission.

Let me say this I know that all the Pa hunters aren't this way. I have hunted with 3 residents who I am proud to call friends. Plus I do not believe that it is just Pa that is this way. I hunted during slug gun season here in Ohio on public land and that was a horrible experience and will not do that anymore.
I agree that education is the best key to stop this. In Ohio it is better most of the time when it comes to trespassing on private property. There is no excuse not to understand the laws concerning this.
Finally I LOVED hunting in Pa and hope to make it a yearly tradition.

Edited by - WorthlessNut on 01/20/2002 08:18:50

I agree. This state probablly has the most "slob" hunters, but that is because how many hunters are out there. I agree that we should educate people on this. Teach everyone good morals and tell them what is right and wrong. It would help out a lot, then I think this state would be one of the best places to hunt.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
P.S. Only Chuck Adams can sit at home and see deer so get into the woods. =;^)

Now that it has been decided here that these behaviors do occur in large quantities in this state. What if any is the penalty now in PA for tresspassing and hunting on Private POSTED Property? What if it were a 1 year suspension of hunting license? 3 year suspension? What would it take to deter some of the Slob hunters from breaking the law?

Tribalscream,
I think the criminal tresspass is pretty substantial $300? Anyway, I think you may have the right solution here. I know if I got a fine for screwing up that would hurt, but keep me from hunting? That would REALLY HURT! Of course, the kind that would do these things probably don,t think like most of us.

That sounds like a good idea. I think that it is a thing that isn't stressed enough here though. If every news channel would play a small clip talking about getting landowners permission, tresspassing, and the fines/suspension that go along with it, the night before buck season, alot of people would be more cautious of where they hunt.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
P.S. Only Chuck Adams can sit at home and see deer so get into the woods. =;^)