Now, I must agree with you WIMP. There are hunters out there like what you have described. I don't think that there are as many as your original post sounded like, but we should educate them. I TOTALLY agree with that. I think that EVERY hunter should respect the animals that they pursue and they should pursue them in a LEGAL and ETHICAL fasion.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
P.S. Only Chuck Adams can sit at home and see deer so get into the woods. =;^)

While I agree that Wimps post gives an accurate picture of many hunters in Pa., my problem with this presentation is that it sets up a strawman to represent anyone who doesn't agree with Alt and [blindly?] follow him. To many of you guys, anyone who doesn't buy into whatever the PGC says is one of the beer swilling buffoons pictured above. While these people exist in abundance and may just spend their camp time plunging needles into the groin of an Alt doll, they are their own group and do not represent everyone who thinks Alt's approach is a lot of smoke and mirrors and lacking in the real numbers that his agressive program should already have.

Remember, there are a lot of us who are educated and non conspiratorial who believe PGC figures on anything are suspect (for good scientific reasons) and, accordingly, do not go gaga over every word that flows from the Althouse.

Well said, Wimp.

Buck magnet, you are still pretty young right, and I don't know how many places you've hunted but, the more different areas of the state you go to and the more years you spend in the woods, the more of the people I described you will see. Granted they still might be in the minority, but it is a rather large group none the less.

Missedagain,
I am by no means setting this up as a follow Alt or you are one of these guys scenerio. I do feel a lot of anti-Alt guys have these tendencies, but I do realize not all. I myself was quite Anti-Alt and PGC in general. THen I started trying to learn and listen to as much info as I could get on the topic. Take that info and decide for myself what I felt was right. My conclusions are that I have much more support for Alt now. Still not 100% but maybe 75%. I think there are too many guys out there that just absolutely despise the PGC, whether warranted or not, and now that they actually do have a good plan, everyone's pre-existing distrust for them, doesn't allow Alt to implement a better plan of deer management.

There good wimp and the truth But what is the long term result of change that is proposed,again If you never lived and hunted in other states that went thru the same thing Pa is you will never know or probably not believe me when i tell you.Im not saying these results are all bad ,but get used to them in the future.1/2 the private farms locked up to free hunting,you pay the farmer or a outfitter who rents the farm. Big bucks are on the pay to hunt places ,gamelands still not to great.Cost more to hunt,and forget seeing deer everyday and unless you pay or lease or own your own property prepare to get a buck 1 out of every 5 years.You aint going to fill your freezer with does ,the herd will be cut in half and the doe tags cut.I lived in two states and I witnessed this happen ,and Pa aint no different.

Just curious Cardeer, what states are you talking about?

Texas,Iowa ,Ill., Kansas are the ones I can be a witness to.Iowa was great ,but it is getting all locked up and the residents are just starting to realize what is happening and there starting to protest,but the money people already greased the politicians,they lost the battle and alot of there free farms to hunt on.

What I was trying to ask is where did the deer herd get cut in half? Did I misunderstand what you were trying to say?
I can only talk about Illinois from experience and their herd numbers are right where they should be. Yes private land free to hunters is rapidly dissappearing there. The landowners that pay the taxes don't seem to mind the money but some non landowning locals are not happy.

Pennsylvania is kind of unique when it comes to private property. Everywhere else you don't even think about hunting without permission but here in Pa we have all grown up with the mindset that if it aint posted it must be OK to hunt here. I think thats probably going to change here quickly.

Well said Wimp! I've hunted the ANF for 3 years now...I used to hunt private land in Clarion Co. I try to get back home to Clarion to hunt as often as I can. Too many people, not enough space. I agree 100%.

Bt ,Texas was the state I seen the biggest doe reduction.But honestly I have seen the doe herd in my area of Pa reduced more the half the last five years. And you know what ,just 2 nights ago I had 11 doe and 7 buck feeding in my back yard,what bad doe to buck ratio? In the public land thats where.