archer58

It would seem that a tactic of the U.S.P., is to have it's members join hunting forums and try to gain some support.
I just can't figure out why most of them can't spell.

rile1564

What he initially meant to say was he received a B.S. from U.S.P, not P.S.U!!!! It was just a spelling error to go with the rest of his spelling/grammar errors!

rybohunter

The more he talks, the less everyone listens.

Gobbler G

My response about Pa. deer heard is this. First: Fellow hunters, please do not bash another hunter who complains about not seeing deer. Yes there is plenty who spend no days in the woods until the season arrives, then come opening day he blindly walks into the woods and expects to kill a deer, and we all know most likely what the end result is going to be! "But!" there are plenty of hunters who have been complaining about our deer program and I believe it is justified.Here are some of my views. First about me:[/align]I'm strictly a bowhunter. I have harvested 27 buck with a bow. Seven of the bucks that I killed will score 130 to 148 being the biggest. All taken before our new deer program. Now, Gary Alt takes over the deer program and is all gun-ho about turning our deer program around. Good! "But," even though I believe his heart was in the right place, his head was not. I really believe a little ego played into some of his decisions.He stated many times, I"m going to make PA. the pioneer in deer management. Well Gary was not the pioneer nor even close. Quality deer management started in Texas in 1969. Now over the last three years, quit a few hunters have been complaining about NO deer in there area. Well according to Leonard Larue the III, Doctor James Kroll and Charles Alshiemer,this is over 100 years of combined deer experience, by shooting off the mature doe early, you can temporarily cause a void of deer, even in prime habitat.Because is natural for the young deer to disperse.This is how a void CAN happen. Next: deer collisions. Sorry, this should NEVER account towards how many deer we should harvest. Now before anyone starts bashing me,please let me explain. There are to many variables that go into deer to car collisions. EXAMPLES: There is no doubt, we have taken the deer numbers down in my area in unit 2c. This winter I visited just 5 high schools and talked to the head of the schools drivers-Ed program. These 5 schools put out over 3,000 new drivers on the road. Point: you can have only one deer in your area, but the amount of more drivers every year, you are still going to INCREASE the chance deer to vehicle collisions. Another one for collisions, they had worked on a major highway in my area for over two years now. For over a two month period, the traffic was being detoured off the highway through rural areas. For a two month span, the detour did increase thenumber of deer collisions. One more, about 3 miles from my house, is farm house with some decent number of deer in the area. It has been for years a noted spot for deer crossing. And most of the time, it was your usual very early morning,late evening and the rut, that you would see deer cross at this farm. Now, you can have deer flying across the road in front of you at any time. More deer? absolutely not! The new owner has two St.Bernard's that he likes to let roam at will and they have deer running at all times of the day. And I have a few more, but I think I made my point about to many variables that play into deer to car collisions. Last one: When Gary started this program and set up the new management units and the hunters said they are to big. He responded, the units are made up of similar habitat make up. Well like I stated earlier, I live in unit 2c. My house is located on the edge of town with most pieces of woods being 10 acres or less. I would say you can classify this asurban deer. Just two miles down the road is typical farm country, I would classify thissuburban deer area. And just 25 minutes do east, I'm in the Chestnut ridge, mountain deer area. So we got three distinct types of habitat that the deer are using, but being managed as one! Knowledgeable hunters have been trying to point all this out since the start of the new deer program. But we hunters are being told by the Pa. Game Commission we need to STAY THE COURSE! The course has been OFF TRACK to long!![/align][/align]

rybohunter

I'll play along....

Shooting mature does off early createss a void....maybe if you killed EVERY doe during an early season, I could see that. But the amount of deer taken early in this state is surely not going to create any "voids" of deer. AND its been thought that shooting mom, keeps the dispersal rates lower.

like it or not, deer are not just targets for hunters. Man/deer conflicts do and will forever have an impact on how many deer we are able too keep in a population. PA hats lots of roads and lots of drivers who don't pay attention and run over deer. THis raises cane on down the line. therefor we need to try and keep the numbers lower and hope there are less collisions. I don't like it either, but that's how it is these days.

What many are failing to grasp was the issue that the numbers of deer were too high for the habitats to support in a healthy manner for both the deer and the habitat itself. It's much more complex than managing for jimbob who wants to see 20 deer everytime he steps foot in the woods.

And yea I agree about the units, they should be smaller, but even in a small unit you could go from town to no where in a short period of time. they aren't going to create units that circle every little town.

Gobbler G

Dear rybohunter

My point was first, hunters bashing hunters who complain about not seeing deer.
That some are legit. Again the three biologists that I mentioned, said they experienced voids when taken mature does early. That the young DO disperse.
And this happened on there property with limited hunting. So with the pressure
some area's get in our state, it is possible to create a SHORT TERM VOID OF DEER. The collisions, I agree with you about if to many deer. Again, I pointed out some variables that caused an increase in collisions that deer density had no part of. And yes it would be totally crazy trying to break down every little section of the state. But I believe it would be better to back to a county by county deer management.

rybohunter

Unless you have almost no deer to begin with,and shoot EVERY doe you see, I can't buy into this "void" of deer theory, I don't care if the Pope says it happens. This is the first time in all my learning about deer that I have ever heard of it.


I agree county size or smaller would be ok, but I like the use of roads/rivers as boundries.

mikepsu54

that

mikepsu54

Gobbler g understands because he lives in 2c.I know that the pittsburgh area has had a deer problem for a long time.......why dont you hunters do something about it down their????Or are you trying and just not good enough of hunters to get the job done.
.

mikepsu54

County zones would lead to better deermanagement. excellent point.