PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
02-11-2007 | 10:37 AM
#31
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 189
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RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
ORIGINAL: georgepoker
ORIGINAL: BTBowhunter
Where was that pic takenGeorgepoker? that deer looks terrible.
ORIGINAL: georgepoker
Besides missing a leg, Is this deer healthy?
Besides missing a leg, Is this deer healthy?
02-11-2007 | 11:00 AM
#32
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 189
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RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
Another question? How many of seen deer look like the second photo I posted in Pa. woods over the last 20 years when the herd numbers was high? I can honestly say Not once have I seen a deer look like that. I am sure someone prob seen 1 or 2 of the pastyears, but never in the same year. So how can we conclude that deer are over populated and starving from lack of food during winter if there is no physical looking evidence? It's like a skinny chick and a fat chick. They both can be healthy but unlike deer, Most would prefer the thinner chick over the fat one. If a deer is under 100lbs and looks healthy without ribs showing it still must be starving and unhealthy because it isn't chunky.
02-11-2007 | 11:38 AM
#33
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,220
Likes: 0
From: SW PA USA
RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
Ihave seen deer that looked pretty close to that in the ANF and on the game lands near East Branch Dam along the Shawmut RR Grade. i will grant you that it has been at least 15 years ago though. I havent been in that area for that long but I have seen some pretty skinny and small deer in the ANF more recently but thats been more than 5-6 years ago.
Sproul, where can we find those pictures? Do they really exist?
Sproul, where can we find those pictures? Do they really exist?
02-11-2007 | 01:11 PM
#34
Typical Buck
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 584
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RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
ORIGINAL: sproulman
rsb, can you answer this, not being smarty pants..the deer here were brought into wmu2g years ago from MICHIGAN..they were brought in pick up trucks,if that is correct..after your answer i will have another question, thank you..
why then did those deer not die?i believe that is 15 hr drive?
ORIGINAL: R.S.B.
For every deer you trap and transfer you better bring about 32 acres of high quality deer habitat with it. It is the habitat and food each deer needs that are hard to move and there is no sense moving the deer if there isn’t the habitat and food for the deer to survive on.
Besides I have been involved in tranquilizing and moving deer in the past. Darn few of them actually survive the move.
The deer you are talking about in the study weren’t moved they were captured and then with minimal exposure to people they were collared and quickly released back into their home range. That is a mighty big difference to trapping, moving and relocating deer……that simply doesn’t work.
R.S.Bodenhorn
ORIGINAL: sproulman
sproul knows difference between a starving deer and a BIG FAT SASSY DOE..my pictures show no deer that look like they are starving..
cant you see it just excuse to get rid of deer there..yes, there may be too many for area, i am not saying that, i am saying i feel they could be trapped out by PENN STATE GIRLS and moved so hunters can hunt them next year..thats my whole bitch here..
as for cost, what did it cost to trap deer in wmu2g for 5 year study and come to conclusion we dont know how to hunt?they came up with money for that.. oh , i forgot , they are full of disease, yea right, you know who is full of it..
sproul knows difference between a starving deer and a BIG FAT SASSY DOE..my pictures show no deer that look like they are starving..
cant you see it just excuse to get rid of deer there..yes, there may be too many for area, i am not saying that, i am saying i feel they could be trapped out by PENN STATE GIRLS and moved so hunters can hunt them next year..thats my whole bitch here..
as for cost, what did it cost to trap deer in wmu2g for 5 year study and come to conclusion we dont know how to hunt?they came up with money for that.. oh , i forgot , they are full of disease, yea right, you know who is full of it..
Besides I have been involved in tranquilizing and moving deer in the past. Darn few of them actually survive the move.
The deer you are talking about in the study weren’t moved they were captured and then with minimal exposure to people they were collared and quickly released back into their home range. That is a mighty big difference to trapping, moving and relocating deer……that simply doesn’t work.
R.S.Bodenhorn
rsb, can you answer this, not being smarty pants..the deer here were brought into wmu2g years ago from MICHIGAN..they were brought in pick up trucks,if that is correct..after your answer i will have another question, thank you..
why then did those deer not die?i believe that is 15 hr drive?
Many of those deer that came here from other states came by railroad.
I am also quite sure that many of those deer, that were being shipped here, did die while being handled at the capture site, while in transit and even after being released. Just because they didn’t wave a banner proclaiming how many deer died through the process sure doesn’t mean the mortality wasn’t high.
When we handle a deer and it dies from that stress we don’t run news articles about it or anything like that. We don't hide it but we don't advertize it either; it is just one of these factors that isn’t advertised or promoted to the public or themedia.
Just to put the affects of handling deer in perspective all you have to do is take a look at the mortality causes of the does that died after being handled in the two recent study areas. Those are deer that weren’t even moved, only captured, collared and quickly released at the same location they were captured.
Of the 109 does handled in those two study areas, between January 2005 and June of 2006, seven of them were known to have been capture related mortalities with another nine being unknown cause of mortality and possibly stress related. That is equal to the sixteen that were killed by hunters.
Remember those are deer that were not moved but only captured thenquickly and professionally handled and released back into the same place they were captured. Just think how much higher that mortality would have been if they had been relocated and dumped out in a new area. Even deer propagators, who are working with domestic deer that are accustomed to being touched and handled by people, have high mortality rates when they start moving them around.
Trap and transfer of deer just doesn't work very well. Deer are to high-strung to survive the stress without being injured or just outright dying in the process.
R.S.Bodenhorn
02-11-2007 | 01:19 PM
#35
Typical Buck
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 584
Likes: 0
RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
ORIGINAL: georgepoker
Another question? How many of seen deer look like the second photo I posted in Pa. woods over the last 20 years when the herd numbers was high? I can honestly say Not once have I seen a deer look like that. I am sure someone prob seen 1 or 2 of the pastyears, but never in the same year. So how can we conclude that deer are over populated and starving from lack of food during winter if there is no physical looking evidence? It's like a skinny chick and a fat chick. They both can be healthy but unlike deer, Most would prefer the thinner chick over the fat one. If a deer is under 100lbs and looks healthy without ribs showing it still must be starving and unhealthy because it isn't chunky.
Another question? How many of seen deer look like the second photo I posted in Pa. woods over the last 20 years when the herd numbers was high? I can honestly say Not once have I seen a deer look like that. I am sure someone prob seen 1 or 2 of the pastyears, but never in the same year. So how can we conclude that deer are over populated and starving from lack of food during winter if there is no physical looking evidence? It's like a skinny chick and a fat chick. They both can be healthy but unlike deer, Most would prefer the thinner chick over the fat one. If a deer is under 100lbs and looks healthy without ribs showing it still must be starving and unhealthy because it isn't chunky.
Some of those deer died during the last few weeks of those winters and of those does that did barely survive they were so under nourished they didn’t produce very many fawns that weighed enough to survive after they were born.
R.S.Bodenhorn
02-11-2007 | 03:09 PM
#36
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 189
Likes: 0
RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
ORIGINAL: R.S.B.
I saw lots of deer that looked that poor right here in Elk County during the winters of 2002/2003 and then again one year later during the winter of 2003/2004.
Some of those deer died during the last few weeks of those winters and of those does that did barely survive they were so under nourished they didn’t produce very many fawns that weighed enough to survive after they were born.
R.S.Bodenhorn
ORIGINAL: georgepoker
Another question? How many of seen deer look like the second photo I posted in Pa. woods over the last 20 years when the herd numbers was high? I can honestly say Not once have I seen a deer look like that. I am sure someone prob seen 1 or 2 of the pastyears, but never in the same year. So how can we conclude that deer are over populated and starving from lack of food during winter if there is no physical looking evidence? It's like a skinny chick and a fat chick. They both can be healthy but unlike deer, Most would prefer the thinner chick over the fat one. If a deer is under 100lbs and looks healthy without ribs showing it still must be starving and unhealthy because it isn't chunky.
Another question? How many of seen deer look like the second photo I posted in Pa. woods over the last 20 years when the herd numbers was high? I can honestly say Not once have I seen a deer look like that. I am sure someone prob seen 1 or 2 of the pastyears, but never in the same year. So how can we conclude that deer are over populated and starving from lack of food during winter if there is no physical looking evidence? It's like a skinny chick and a fat chick. They both can be healthy but unlike deer, Most would prefer the thinner chick over the fat one. If a deer is under 100lbs and looks healthy without ribs showing it still must be starving and unhealthy because it isn't chunky.
Some of those deer died during the last few weeks of those winters and of those does that did barely survive they were so under nourished they didn’t produce very many fawns that weighed enough to survive after they were born.
R.S.Bodenhorn
And how do you know them deer died at the lastfew weeks of winter. And shouldn't this been documented along with pictures. How is anything to be done properly or changed to correctif events like thiese are not documented. On a large scale you speak of, it should of been documented. Any specialist in a field would document these things. True?
How did they elk do up there? I would think worse because they eat more than the deer?
02-11-2007 | 03:58 PM
#37
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,220
Likes: 0
From: SW PA USA
RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
When did they start the deer herd reduction?
And if that many was to weak to give birth and you knew that winter took a toll on the deer in them 2 seasons why did the PGC still gave out those large numbers of doe tags?
02-11-2007 | 04:24 PM
#39
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,776
Likes: 0
From: Slower Lower Delaware 1st State
RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
The pics of Deer - where were they taken??The crippled deer doesn't look to be anything but crippled(3 legs).Matter of fact maybe he's scratchin his Arss with the leg.Lousy pic to judge much of anything.
The 2nd deer - looks fine to me.I have dozens of trail cam pics taken in early spring showing ribs - and some bucks looking a bit scrawny that just months before looked Very "Fat and Sassy".
What is the point??
I would also like to see those secret decoder copyright deer pics.As BTB stated if there copyright they gotta be published somewhere??
Where
Would speak volumes as to the validity of said poster - Do you Think.
The 2nd deer - looks fine to me.I have dozens of trail cam pics taken in early spring showing ribs - and some bucks looking a bit scrawny that just months before looked Very "Fat and Sassy".
What is the point??
I would also like to see those secret decoder copyright deer pics.As BTB stated if there copyright they gotta be published somewhere??
Where
Would speak volumes as to the validity of said poster - Do you Think.
02-11-2007 | 04:32 PM
#40
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,776
Likes: 0
From: Slower Lower Delaware 1st State
RE: PGC SAYS DEER ARE STARVING
Sproul I just took this pic off google. I am not sure of where it was taken from. I am just curious on if people thinks this is a healthy deer or not. I do believe that they are slaughtering our deer herds in Pa. for an agenda. And it's not because of the health or survival of the deer.
Here we go again with the Pa slaughter agenda.Its been beat to death every week,month for 2-3 yrs. Hint - Hint - We ain't gonna listen to it for another Nano Scond.