jf5

No, thats a question for a biologist. But I can say with cofidence its not 1 to 1 or even 3 to 1. In areas of eastern NYI see 15-20 does for every buck.

SteveBNy

Without the numbers, HOW can you possibly say it is needed, would work or even might hurt the herd?

Without the numbers, it would be impossible to know results.

You see 15 to 20 does per buck.
What does this have to do with the actual b/d ratio?
How many of those "does" are BB's?
Are they all marked and identified so that you can be sure you are not counting some twice?

Biologists I have read say that a 15/1 d/b ratio is virtually impossible to have.

Steve

jf5

C'mon Steve, there not a state in the Northeast that has a balanced B to D ratio. NY is certainly one of them. Are you saying it is balanced?? What is the B to D ratio then??What is your biologist saying is prime for that area??

Impossible 15 to 1?? Not so sure thats true. Hunted PA back in the 90's, I would say it was happening thereeven with the BB'sin theequation. It also adds to note that if 90% of the buck you are seeing is BB's, then there is an age strcuture problem because they are getting shot when they become spikes/forks.

SteveBNy

Not counting them as bucks when buttons.
But they are counted as bucks as 1 1/2 year old at preseason.
Figure up to 1/3 of the "does you see are BB.
That means even if all the 1 1/2 and older are killed in season, next August the herd will be close to 2/1.
For a 15/1, the fawn recruitment rate would have to be way out of whack and/or a disproportionate # of BB would need to not make it to 1 1/2.
Also, at what date in the year do you figure balanced b/d ratio?
The ratio Aug 1st will be far different then Jan 1st.

Just asking you to support the need for mandatory AR here in CNY - having the numbers would go a long way.

Steve

jf5

But I can same the same for not supporting it if you don't have the numbers either.Do you honestly think its 3d to 1B or less??

SteveBNy

Say anything you want,but you want the mandatory change - you provide the reason - and the proof.

I want to see how someone from out of state knows what the herd needs in CNY.

I think it is closer to this then 15,20 to 1.
Can you show me where the mistake is in my example?

Steve

tsoc

The perception of buck to doe ratio's can be very misleading.Is it the prior to the hunting season,or after the hunting season? What are we seeing in the field and does that relate exactly to what animals are actually there?
Years ago (probably 10 or 12) I had seen as many as 45 deer at one time in the field in front of my house.A neighbor would put out corn for them every morning.The neighbor would begin to feed them immediately following the end of all deer hunting seasons.What was remarkable to me at that time is that that particular winter before bucks had begun to drop their antlers I had only seen one legal buck amongst the group of deer that regularly came to the corn that was put out.I should have paid closer attention to the amount of adult doe's and yearlings and also attempted to identify the button bucks.There are all kind of variable s to consider with ratio's.An unhunted area versus a heavily hunted area.Possibly more mature bucks in the unhunted area to begin with,driven by their need for security and much less mortality in the unhunted area.Determining ratio's is or can be a pretty complex matter.
From a hunting perspective,it can be incredibly discouraging if you arein poor or heavily hunted area's.

Fletch NY

I am against any AR in NY. I also believe any person supporting it may as well join PETA for the good they are doing deer hunting.

Out of all the ones on here in favor of AR I would bet my house all of you have taken a few or more not mature bucks. But now you want to tell all those that come behind us they do not have that same oportunity!!

Oh and high grading, exactly lets go shoot all the best genes out of the herd to make it better!!! That is precious! Rocket science for sure!!

I would love to see how supportive you would be of this if you did not get to keep the antlers!! This big buck perversion will be the end of hunting mark the words here.

Then the lets get back to natural!!! Duh we are part of nature and me shooting a deer and eating it is natural!

Oh but the deer ratio is unbalanced. It needs to be one to one so the rut is forced into a melee so we can shoot these big bucks easier. Even though more will die from fighting and stress!! How bout shoot more does!! Oh we can not do that!! We may not see 50 deer a day.

I have yet to meet a farmer who only harvests the old herd bulls. Admit you all just want some antlers to brag about. Well go buy some synthetic ones and let tradition and real hunting and hunters be.

You all want Ohio deer but forget we do not have the soil, amount of ground in crops not developments, forests with actual high quality deer feedand easy winters.

We may as well split here and those not in favor can be hunters and the ones in favor can be sportsmen. The diference you may ask? Sports are competition.

I hunt for deer 50 days a year, have hunted for over 30 years,put 2 to 3 deer in the freezer a year, do not buy any beef(do not need it), have not taken a 1.5 year old buck in quite a few years but I sure as heck would not be sorry if I did. I consider hunting a way of life not a sport.

This is the best quote I read on here:

"If my chances at a wall hanger are somewhat reduced because my neighbor shoots a 4 point then fine. If he's happy then I'm happy for him. After all, if he shoots a monster my chances are also reduced somewhat now aren't they? I really don't believe thinking that what somebody else shoots is my loss is a healthy way to look at hunting."

jgbennett6

fletch,.are you kidding me, Ny def. has teh Genes. and the agriculture to produce big bucks, it has already been proven. And you say "oh no dont shoot the does"...but QDM requires teh shooting of lots of does, and i do my part of that, however. i'm not going to tell you what to shoot......given this scenario.be honest.you have a nice big 8 point 2.5 y/o and a 4pt 2.5 yo show up both have the same body size. but the 8 pt is behind brush, the 4 pt in teh open what are you going to do?..shoot the 4 pt....fine but if you say 8pt then you have no right to call other guys rack hunters. the whole idea of AR's is so that more 2.5 y/o will make it, yes that is young, but they are smarter and more evasive then a dumb horny 1.5 yo..............sorry but those are almost as easy to kill than squirrels.....yes more 2.5 y/o will be killed but more will make it to 2.5 y/o so therefore more will eb around.

tmeservey

Great point!