jf5

I didn't say it was 15 to 1 , just an observation of mine.But both you and I know the balance is out though, so give me a break.But hey, Your right, I am out of state so my opinion means nothing anyway. Good luck with your herd.

doctariAFC

Yes, QDM demands shooting "lots of does". Population management also demands such.

But what I am failing to see or read is how to address the increased mortality rates of the new class of bucks - button bucks, as when increased antlerless harvest happens, so does button buck mortality.

I am waiting with baited breath...

jgbennett6

their is no way of reducing the risk of "button buck death" this is still a problem in many state.......my first deer was a button buck and i'm still proud of it. killing button bucks come with the territory.....my point was not that NYS needs to increase their DMP's. In some areas they do in some they dont. My simple point was that people are complaining that AR's will lead to nothing but 2.5 y/o being killed. Well there are some big bucks in NY, they make it through, think of how many more would make it if they had 1 more year of experience under their belt?.....

SteveBNy

We can suspect, but we don't know or to what degree without real numbers. And I am sure it varies widely through out the state - therefore how can we think a one size fits all approach would be beneficial in any way.


You are wrong - your opinion matters greatly - IF you can support it!

I am never so set in an opinion that new info and facts cannot cause me to reconsider - I welcome the opportunity!

But I will never support radical change based on feelings, emotion and opinions only. Give me sound reasons backed with facts and real numbers, a way to accurately measure progress, and I am there with you.

Steve

SteveBNy

Not true! Here in CNY and western NY - it will target the 55% of the 1 1/2 year old bucks that are 6 pt or greater. It will save only the later born and slower developing spikes and forks to become 2 1/2 with maybe 6 pts to be targeted then. How will this change anything?

AR points based could save many young bucks in areas where 1 1/2 are typically spikes and forks - here it would not do that!

Another thing I hear a lot from the pro AR crowd is they are tired of hearing the hunters that shoot smaller bucks complain about not seeing larger ones. My experiance differs greatly - most DEER hunters I know that will shoot a younger buck are happy with their harvest. Many of those who are not are starting to understand that they need to let the smaller ones go to increase their chances at a bigger one.

Education is working - just not fast enough for the major not enough big buck complainers: those who have decided they are no longer happy with small bucks - have decided that they only wish to shoot larger ones - and now demand changes to fit their wants now!

Steve

jf5

Whats the point?? If I come back with the ratio would it really change any minds?? I don't think so...it would be discarded regardless. I am not basing it on feelings or emotion. I see the sucess of the programs in other states, and Icouple that withthe experiences I have had and others have had in NY woods. No one could produce a sound reason with facts and real numbers onwhy a 3" AR should stay either. I offered a discussion about"any deer"permits without any AR and that was discarded for traditon and history.

Thanks for being decent enough about it Steve, but I am not going to bother chasing DEC numbers to fall on deaf ears. If you guyshonestly, truelythink the ratio and age strcutureis balanced then I wish you guys the best of luckwith your deer herd. I really hope you remain happy with the way things are. Good luck this fall also...

SteveBNy

Same to you - discussion and debate can only help us all.

Steve

doctariAFC

Pipe dream. Without assuring good recruitment (button bucks becoming adult bucks) we are doing nothing.

I do not understand how anyone can say we need to protect 1 1/2 yo bucks, and then say BB mortality comes with the territory. So does harvest of 1 1/2 yo bucks, 2 1/2 yo bucks, 3 1/2 yo bucks and older. I think that's part of why we call this hunting.

Again, all I am hearing is hunter satisfaction concerns, and not a whimper concerning the biological benefits of the herd itself.

I wonder how NYS produces the big bucks we have seen, especially this year, without higher AR or QDM?

jf5

See you in the woods.

BigJohn H

[quote]ORIGINAL: doctariAFC

jgbennett6 there are ways to reduce the loss of BB, DoctariAFC The answer to your Button buck question is simple and, it is a hunter safety rule. "3. Before shooting, identify your game, make sure no person is in the way and that nothing is beyond it."