New York Antler Restrictions State Wide?
01-29-2007, 09:48 AM
#222
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location:
Posts: 87
RE: New York Antler Restrictions State Wide?
to em there is no difference in shooting a button buck and shooting a 1.5yo buck, so to me it doesn't matter, now if they were to make it s law that a button buck must go on a buck tag, then you may have a temp. solution. Honestly nothing can be done state wide in Ny b/c the herds are so varying... it must be a county by county thing. and yes education on button bucks is needed.
01-29-2007, 09:51 AM
#223
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,102
RE: New York Antler Restrictions State Wide?
Rich,
I am not sure if you were including me in "the all of us have missed the point" comment.The only comment that I was responding to was a gentlemans assertion that 75% of all DMP's filled were button bucks.There is a vast difference in the amount of button bucks going forward when you alter those %'s.The numbers you use clearly demonstrate that.It seems like you are not suggesting the elimination of DMP's but additional education as it relates to the ability to identify button bucks?
It makes complete sense to me to eliminate management permits in certain units where the deer numbers are way down.I also believe that the number of bucks allowed to be killed should be limited in units based on where that unit's buck population is.Where many of the units in the western part of the state are producing buck harvests of over 3 per square mile,the two immediate units around me are at slightly less than 1 per square mile.
I also don't think a one buck per hunter limit is folly.It would likely increase many hunters patience and identification when choosing to kill.I am going to make a couple of assumptions here as it relates to the hunters who consistently kill more than1 buck.Chances are they are hunters who are more committed to deer hunting and as a result more knoweledgeable in their ability to identify a button buck from a doe.If these hunters fore go their extra buck,that is roughly 4500 known no doubt about it bucks that get to go forward.If these same hunters fill approximately 4500 DMP's than it is far more likely that a smaller percentage of those 4500 will be button bucks.
If the DEC didn't allow someone to purchase this years tag without having received last years report whether successful or not.That in itself would assure as complete a collection of data as possible.You don't report,you don't hunt.It is so simple it is silly.
This and precise management by unit would be a giant step in the right direction.
Please don't come back with "The Hunter Satisfaction response" I have already indicated that is number three in my list of concerns.There is absolutely no reason why habitat,herd health,and hunter satisfaction cannot be addressed at the same time!
I wish I knew how much the money side of things influenced management.DMP sales equal revenue.I would gladly pay more for my hunting privelege's if it meant more considerate management!
I am not sure if you were including me in "the all of us have missed the point" comment.The only comment that I was responding to was a gentlemans assertion that 75% of all DMP's filled were button bucks.There is a vast difference in the amount of button bucks going forward when you alter those %'s.The numbers you use clearly demonstrate that.It seems like you are not suggesting the elimination of DMP's but additional education as it relates to the ability to identify button bucks?
It makes complete sense to me to eliminate management permits in certain units where the deer numbers are way down.I also believe that the number of bucks allowed to be killed should be limited in units based on where that unit's buck population is.Where many of the units in the western part of the state are producing buck harvests of over 3 per square mile,the two immediate units around me are at slightly less than 1 per square mile.
I also don't think a one buck per hunter limit is folly.It would likely increase many hunters patience and identification when choosing to kill.I am going to make a couple of assumptions here as it relates to the hunters who consistently kill more than1 buck.Chances are they are hunters who are more committed to deer hunting and as a result more knoweledgeable in their ability to identify a button buck from a doe.If these hunters fore go their extra buck,that is roughly 4500 known no doubt about it bucks that get to go forward.If these same hunters fill approximately 4500 DMP's than it is far more likely that a smaller percentage of those 4500 will be button bucks.
If the DEC didn't allow someone to purchase this years tag without having received last years report whether successful or not.That in itself would assure as complete a collection of data as possible.You don't report,you don't hunt.It is so simple it is silly.
This and precise management by unit would be a giant step in the right direction.
Please don't come back with "The Hunter Satisfaction response" I have already indicated that is number three in my list of concerns.There is absolutely no reason why habitat,herd health,and hunter satisfaction cannot be addressed at the same time!
I wish I knew how much the money side of things influenced management.DMP sales equal revenue.I would gladly pay more for my hunting privelege's if it meant more considerate management!
01-29-2007, 09:58 AM
#224
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 184
RE: New York Antler Restrictions State Wide?
ORIGINAL: tsoc
Rich,
I am not sure if you were including me in "the all of us have missed the point" comment.The only comment that I was responding to was a gentlemans assertion that 75% of all DMP's filled were button bucks.There is a vast difference in the amount of button bucks going forward when you alter those %'s.The numbers you use clearly demonstrate that.It seems like you are not suggesting the elimination of DMP's but additional education as it relates to the ability to identify button bucks?
It makes complete sense to me to eliminate management permits in certain units where the deer numbers are way down.I also believe that the number of bucks allowed to be killed should be limited in units based on where that unit's buck population is.Where many of the units in the western part of the state are producing buck harvests of over 3 per square mile,the two immediate units around me are at slightly less than 1 per square mile.
I also don't think a one buck per hunter limit is folly.It would likely increase many hunters patience and identification when choosing to kill.I am going to make a couple of assumptions here as it relates to the hunters who consistently kill more than1 buck.Chances are they are hunters who are more committed to deer hunting and as a result more knoweledgeable in their ability to identify a button buck from a doe.If these hunters fore go their extra buck,that is roughly 4500 known no doubt about it bucks that get to go forward.If these same hunters fill approximately 4500 DMP's than it is far more likely that a smaller percentage of those 4500 will be button bucks.
If the DEC didn't allow someone to purchase this years tag without having received last years report whether successful or not.That in itself would assure as complete a collection of data as possible.You don't report,you don't hunt.It is so simple it is silly.
This and precise management by unit would be a giant step in the right direction.
Please don't come back with "The Hunter Satisfaction response" I have already indicated that is number three in my list of concerns.There is absolutely no reason why habitat,herd health,and hunter satisfaction cannot be addressed at the same time!
I wish I knew how much the money side of things influenced management.DMP sales equal revenue.I would gladly pay more for my hunting privelege's if it meant more considerate management!
Rich,
I am not sure if you were including me in "the all of us have missed the point" comment.The only comment that I was responding to was a gentlemans assertion that 75% of all DMP's filled were button bucks.There is a vast difference in the amount of button bucks going forward when you alter those %'s.The numbers you use clearly demonstrate that.It seems like you are not suggesting the elimination of DMP's but additional education as it relates to the ability to identify button bucks?
It makes complete sense to me to eliminate management permits in certain units where the deer numbers are way down.I also believe that the number of bucks allowed to be killed should be limited in units based on where that unit's buck population is.Where many of the units in the western part of the state are producing buck harvests of over 3 per square mile,the two immediate units around me are at slightly less than 1 per square mile.
I also don't think a one buck per hunter limit is folly.It would likely increase many hunters patience and identification when choosing to kill.I am going to make a couple of assumptions here as it relates to the hunters who consistently kill more than1 buck.Chances are they are hunters who are more committed to deer hunting and as a result more knoweledgeable in their ability to identify a button buck from a doe.If these hunters fore go their extra buck,that is roughly 4500 known no doubt about it bucks that get to go forward.If these same hunters fill approximately 4500 DMP's than it is far more likely that a smaller percentage of those 4500 will be button bucks.
If the DEC didn't allow someone to purchase this years tag without having received last years report whether successful or not.That in itself would assure as complete a collection of data as possible.You don't report,you don't hunt.It is so simple it is silly.
This and precise management by unit would be a giant step in the right direction.
Please don't come back with "The Hunter Satisfaction response" I have already indicated that is number three in my list of concerns.There is absolutely no reason why habitat,herd health,and hunter satisfaction cannot be addressed at the same time!
I wish I knew how much the money side of things influenced management.DMP sales equal revenue.I would gladly pay more for my hunting privelege's if it meant more considerate management!
01-29-2007, 10:16 AM
#225
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 184
RE: New York Antler Restrictions State Wide?
Just so we're totally clear here, and perhaps to serve as informational understanding to some (I think many know this, but some may not), NYS DEC does NOT manage bucks and does.
What is managed is Antlered Deer (3" or greater) and Antlerless Deer (<3")
When one reads the harvest reports, one column does say "Bucks" (like Buck Harvest, Bucks per Sq Mi). This is not really "Bucks" but it is easier to write and takes less space than "Antlered".
Just so we're clear on that, as although it seems like symantics, it really isn't. We don't manage Bucks and Does, we manage Antlered and Antlerless.
What is managed is Antlered Deer (3" or greater) and Antlerless Deer (<3")
When one reads the harvest reports, one column does say "Bucks" (like Buck Harvest, Bucks per Sq Mi). This is not really "Bucks" but it is easier to write and takes less space than "Antlered".
Just so we're clear on that, as although it seems like symantics, it really isn't. We don't manage Bucks and Does, we manage Antlered and Antlerless.
