I believe there are several different ways to look at AR restrictons. I myself have not decided if its something I'm for or against. For 1 yes it'll bring out the trophy addicts if it works, and then you'll have even more problems with available hunting land. I've heard horror stories in Illinois over land rights, and trepassing. Its all Big $. I hate the whole Big $ trophy crap. It makes me sick how its become an huge industry, and I don't like the direction it taking our sport. I don't like some big name hunters who simply pay big bucks to harvest big deer to make a bigger name for themselves. Trophies is not what huntings all about.
On the other hand if managed properly it can be a added benefit to our herds health. Obviously more mature deer is a good thing. Its really kinda sad that most deer harvested in NYS only reach 1.5yrs old.
A better balanced mature deer herd can also make the hunting more interesting. The typical signs, and ways we hunt that are suppose to work can work better when things are balanced out.
I think DEC is approaching this in a good manner. They're not jumping on the band wagon, and doing test pilot areas first. I like that. See if it works for NYS, and what adjustments need to be made.

There are 4 units in the Catskills that now have antler restrictions. I know that in at least one of these units it was not very easy to draw a doe permit. So since many of the hunters in this unit can only take a buck 3 point to a side and larger and don't have a doe permit, exactly what are the odds that they will bring home a deer? Not very good if you ask me.

I also don't know where you are seeing all these hunters in the Catskills, but hunter numbers are WAY down in the last few years. I started hunting in the late 70's and there were scores of hunters out there. Today you barely see anyone. Many of the small sporting goods stores in the area have gone out of business because there are no hunters to keep them in business. Give it another few years and the state might as well give out licenses for free because nobody will be buying any!!

I would like AR's and a one buck limit.

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Agree in that zone AR is best of any AR implementation, but that consitutes problems from it that divides sportsmen. We don't need that.

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There were bucks out to shoot before AR in PA. There was no twist of fate where they disappeared for 225 years, and only reappeared magically in hunters sights post-AR. EVERYONE gets a shot at potential trophies now, and pre AR. You mean to tell me that AR makes deer a trophy?

What is YOUR definition of a trophy?

Again, you first claimed that AR had biological benefits, and increased the quality of hunting. Now, you come out and make it seem like AR is trophy management. Why are you so concerned withwhat you call"trophies"? Why is so important that everyone else has the chance to shoot what YOU call potentialtrophies?

My definition of a trophy has not a single indication of size, or quality, or sex. Here is mine: A trophy, in deer hunting terms, isa deerharvested/killed within the confines of hunting that the successful hunter values, both the animal itself and the experience of harvest. It is worth noting that the particulars of what each hunter values varies greatly amonst one another.

My old man shot that forkhorn. He valued it a trophy. We all did. I wouldn't take, or want to take a fellow hunter's ability to harvest what they consider a trophy.

Now, realizing that some hunters value trophy bucks as monster b/c and p/y classes. Well that's fine. But you cannot honestly say that they are not available without AR. AR is NOT needed to produce b/c and p/y class bucks. Look at the NE big buck club. There are plenty of entries from NY.

To those people, I say hunt harder, or look for ways to improve your chances without affecting others on a law/reg level. And, largely thats what most people do...buy land, manage it for QDM, etc.

Also, you need to realize that AR is NOT QDM. AR does not include increasing doe permits. That's a completely different ball game.Thats one of the largest issues in PA right now, if I am not mistaken...the PGC didn;t work all thatconsistently with doe permits and AR.

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You should look at NY hunter statistics. WNY carries THE highest number of hunters every year. The Catskills are the second largest region in NY, behind the 'dacks, with the southern tier athird in size. Yet, WNY still has more hunters. So, while you may see a bunch of hunters where you hunt, that could be somewhat of a localized issue, because there simply are not as many hunters as there are in WNY hunting smaller land size.

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4 week firearm season? No. It's not four weeks in the southern zone, and I believe it is roughly similar to the Northern in length. It's 23 days...three weeks, and two days. Adding five days as you quote would meaning increasing the season 23% over what we have now. Don't forget most of the regular firearms season is AFTER all of the pre-rut, and most of the rut phase...something many other state's have in their regular firearm season.

MZ season isn't regular firearms, so that wouldn't be included in that.

And why is it important for deer to regroup? Is this a battle? A footballgame? Pressure is a part of hunting, and both hunters, and deer have to deal with it. What biological evidenceis there to show thattaking a blue-law type stance here in NY as we once had is better biologically? Read up on how people are attempting to get blue laws removed in NC, VA, etc.There's no biology behind that.

Now, afull scale break. I'm not sosure.There may or may not be benefits. But, at that point we're splitting atoms.

New York does have a myriad of rules.If you want rules,go to VA and NC.Everresearch them? In one city, you can only use a rifle 8 feet off the ground at shoulder height. Another, 10 feet. Another, 8 feet to the platform.There's twentyDIFFERENT season dates. A hunter can hunt from October tothe first weekend inJanuary with a modern firearm in VA! That's not accounting bow season! Then some areas only allow shotguns, others have dog hunting, while some don't...

In AL, home to absolutely great hunting, you can shoot over 100 deer a season legally. There, the gun season ranges from Nov. 13-18 start date to JANUARY 15 (tad more than 23 days...)! They've got plenty of deer, but so does NY. Were in the top ten in total population of deer.

My point is...be careful of wanting too many rules, and that NY has a fair balance on its management practicescompared to many states.

Also, seriously...How can "buy a license, load a gun, and have fun" be bad? Isn't thatEXACTLY what hunting is about?

Brilliant!

Hmm.... if we're using the 3 points per side as the guidelines, then I've seen 2 eligible bucks in 22 years of hunting.

I live in Hurley near the Ashokan and I have yet to even see a rub let alone a deer with horns even standing on the road in the morning. I live ontop of a mountain and see about 4-6 does and fawns every morning on the way to work. I have seen 0 bucks this season thus far. My daily commute consists of driving from Hurley to Fishkill which is 55 miles 1 way. I cannot believe this

CAS, that is exactly my argument FOR A/R! Obviosuly it is not just me who rarely sees nice bucks. A/R would definately cause at least one thing to happen: more bucks surviving to a more mature age. We might have to endure a year or two of catch-up, but after that, I don't see how it would be so hard to find legal bucks if they are being allowed to survive long enough to become legal.