I live in Hurley near the Ashokan resovior and I have not seen 1 deer with horns this season. I drive to work at 5am through back woods roads on my way to the NYS thruway and all I ever see is does with fawns. I hiked my property and did not find a single rub for the second year in a row. I am beginning to wonder if there are even deer with the 3 point rule around this area?!?!?!

Salty..

There are deer there. It makes you feel bad and almost crazied to think that you will be hunting and hoping for a monster or anything to walk out for that matter and nothing will appear. But you must remember the deer that you would like to kill will not always be in a field or even crossing a road. It will be when your still hunting and the bow shoot is just to far away or gun season and there is heavy brush and you can't get the shoot. Never think there not there, for there is BIG BUCKS everywhere that we just don't see. Good luck this season.. and always remember you never KNOW !!

Interesting disussion here. I am in total agreement with Phade here. Who should dictate to a hunter what sized buck they should be allowed to shoot? Besides, the job of the Department of Conservation and any state game agency is to manage the deer herd, which does NOT mean that they have to manage it for the trophy hunter. Hunters are given licenses to control the population of deer, and concern to how many points a buck has on his head should be of little importance. I have been surprised that anti-hunting groups haven't picked up on this and publicized the fact that a state like PA is currently managing their herd for trophy hunting. Now most non-hunters can accept hunters killing deer for the table, but MIGHTY few will accept killing deer for the sole purpose of acquiring a trophy. If and when they do bring this to the general publics attention, I assure you that state game agencies AND hunters will be on the losing end here!

Interesting point, I've had less rub activity last year than normal, as well as very little to date this season.

Huntin Samsonville/Olive and the last two years have been real bad. Over here its a direct result of the gypsy moths. This year they were bad but last year they destroyed everything. Trees produced almost no acorns.
Last year only saw 5 does during rifle season, compared to twenty and thirty in a single day in previous seasons. Last year when hunting it was completely silent, to the point of being eerie. No turkeys, no squirrels, no chipmunks, simply silence. Basically no deer or wildlife to speak of and we usually have one ofeverything that lives in NY somewhere on theproperty(large tract bordering public lands).
Good news is that this year the moths were bad but they seem to be on the wane. Turkeys have been frequent visitors and even have a few squirells again. Grouse have been abundant and I have even seen two bucks in the daytime earlier in the year on the ATV's, a 3 or 4 pt and a 6pt while still in velvet. Normally only see them at night or while hunting. Been seeing lots of does and fawns so as far as I am concerned its alreadymuch better than last year. Hope it will be for the rest of you too.Going to start doing some QDM in the future to see if it helps hold the animals and provide better insurance in the future in case of another poor mast crop. Good luck.

Antler restriction should definately be decided by zone, and what is appropriate for that area. That is how the NJ system works, and its works great. I am not positive, but is PA statewide? If so, that would not work in NY. I guess I do generalize a little, because I mostly speak for one area, in wmu's in Zone 3.That is where I spend the majority of my time, although last year I huntedin zones 7 and 4. This year will be my first in Suffolk County. There must be something to A/R in Zone 3, because hunting groups there initiated this, and the DEC approved it.

As for "dictating" to other hunters. First off, as parts of PA are seeing, the downsides would only last a few years.After that,ideally, there would be bucks out there to shoot within the rules. Then EVERYONE would get shots at potential trophies. Coupled with increased doe permits, as proper QDM should be, there would be even more oppurtunitiesfor shots on deer. Also, in NJ, there are places where young and senior hunters do not have to follow the A/R rules. Is this the same in PA? We could have a similiar system here.

While I cannot go quoting "sources" for my over hunted claim, I know what I see. Hunting in the Adirondacks, and in the western tier, I never see as many hutners as in the Catskills. Every hotel is packed, there is traffic going out to the land, and there are trucks lined up once you get there. Bow season is not as bad, which leads me to believe that most hunters are opening weekend guys.

Anytime a new rule is passed, there will always be guys like your father Phade who get restricted unfortunately because of it. That applies to anything in life. It is a bi-product of majority rule. I am sure there are people in NJ who get pissed off with all their rules... multiple zones, with a myraid of regulations. NY historically has been a simple state to hunt in. A few extra rules might do us some good and improve the herd. If you research other states hunting rules, I believe you may agree with me. Our 4 week firearm season, without any off-days, is one of the longest in the country. There is no time for the deer to regroup, such as in Colorado's breaks between the 4 elk seasons. I base my opinions on extensive research into almost all 50 states hunting regulations and how they compare to NY's, and compared to most, ourshas basically been "buy a license, load a gun, and have fun".

I am pleased to see that they are changing that.

PS... one mroe thing. At least we don't have to deal with lotteries. Some people out west, in awesome hunting states, have to wiat 2-3 years to hutn where they want to and pay money to go out of state while they wait. We get to hunt, gauranteed, in EVERY OPEN SEASON, every year. Most states don't even have this.

" I never see as many hutners as in the Catskills. Every hotel is packed, there is traffic going out to the land, and there are trucks lined up once you get there."

Got to disagree with that. Things have been seriously changing. We don't get half the hunters we had 10 years ago during gun season. alot of the hardcore hunters switched to bow hunting, alot simply died of old age, and alot just don't go. Its a catch 22, with less hunters in the woods, the deer don't get pushed and merely circle back on the offending visitor. Without the fleeing deer alot of casual hunters will never see anything as they are not really hunting so much as picking a spot with a view and waiting tointercept pushed deer. After a while of not seeing anything they leave some of them giving up entirely. Don't know where you see the huge numbers of hunters but most hotels herehavelots of vacancies in season nowadays. Its because of this poor turnout they they switched the season from a monday start to a saturday starthoping the weekend will increase hunter turnout.
Regardless, don't see the point of this trophy stuff. If everybody can get a trophy then it aint a trophy anymore. So if everybody is shooting 6pointers that is somehow better than a spike? We all hunt the area and know the conditions we face and our understanding is reflected in what we consider a trophy animal. So what if it ain't P & Y or B&C, it was still just as satisfying.You get a nice heavy set 6-8 pointer or one of our spindly 10 pointers and you should be very proud of yourself. good luck to all.

leave everything alone.
way i look at it the average age of hunters is what in the mid to late 40's.
deer herd is large and healthy.
only problem is land is being hard to come by as far as hunting.
i don't see a lot of big deer where i hunt so a button buck or a 4 pointer is down as far as i'm concerned.
i'm a meat hunter.
i like the meat, especially on the young ones.

You can take doe for tasty meat, that's the way I look at it.