T_in_PA3

I still don't get how anti's are taking over DCNR by increasing hunting opportunities??????

Four Sox

One iddy bitty example, DCNR wanting longer seasons and more DMAPs to kill more deer in areas like 2g and shooting offabout Regeneration like the foresters on here dobut at the same time expanding the elk herd by leaps and bounds, kind of hippocritical wouldn't you think???



Read Lost's links, this guy Slinsky gets it!!!!!!

germain

T,all you have to do is check out Rendell's past records.I mention him because of the liberals he appointed to the DCNR and the interest he has in it not to mention his PA wilds program.
Now do a background check on the people he put in high positions at the DCNR and that information speaks for itself.

T_in_PA3

But, in order to get the regeneration and habitat they are looking for they need hunters.

Four Sox

I guess so if they are so hell bent in adding a bunch of yellow collared elk to the picture!!!

Crazy Horse RVN

"Meat Shooter Beetle Juice" Your the one who quoted from the radio show. It's incumbant upon YOU to provide theproof. Why not ask your friend and/or employer Cal DuBrock for a copy of the radio show tape. He's the only person besides Mr. Slinsky who would have one. That implies that you and DuBrock are in intimate contact with each other.

germain

This is kinda beating a dead horse but after the statements these people made about hunters/hunting I don't think hunters are a main concern.With the deer numbers so low in many areas they are going to have a tough time getting enough hunters to kill the amount of deer they want eliminated.It's just not worth the trip for people to travel 3-4 hours north and hunt with numbers so low.Sure the few people who live in the area and have the year to scout can find the few pockets of deer left.I personally think there's more to this extreme deer reduction then regeneration but that's another story.
I sure don't claim to be a biologist T but I do have eyes and hunting experience.I did a little test at my cabin.Under the thick canopy there was basically just fern growing.I opened an area up and in a year there was thick growth including wild flowers,oaks,blueberry,and other plants.Yet where I didn't cut the trees down just 20 feet away it's still ferns.I've seen deer eating in this new growth and the white and red oaks are still there.If you would like I could see if I still have those pics and post them.
In another area there's an opening in the woods where young white oaks are thriving in multiple stages.But the sun gets in.If you look to the left or right under the canopy there's no growth.So from what I see with my own eyes tells me if you properly open the canopy even with deer regen will happen.You can kill every deer in the county and if the sunlight doesn't get in new growth won't occur.
When the tornado went through in 85 needless to say new growth occured in the area,so thick you couldn't walk in it.But the new trees that grew were junk trees.Why?Because that's basically the forest type in the area.The deer didn't eat all the oaks,the cherry,maple,and beech shade out the few oaks that sprouted.There's alot more to it then kill all the deer and in this process this state is going to lose alot of license revenue.

DougE

Germain,you're correct about what grew back after that tornado.It was mainly junk but it did provide some browse and alot of cover.That blowdown area washuge that it overwhelmed the deer and the herd multiplied during the mild winters of the 90's.That area is now getting into the pole timber stage and is far less beneficial to the deer.There's still plentyof deer in there but they're just hard tofind.I hunt grouse in there alot and you can criss cross through there all day and never see a deer.The sign is always present though,so I knowmore than a few are in there.I hunted that area in the first day of archery season this past year and had no problem arrowing a deer.I saw 6 deer by 8:00am which is more than I saw in one day on private land where I also hunt.the FLIR results will be out soon and that's one area that they flew over.

I don't think anyone will argue with you about light being an imprtant factor for regeneration.I also don't doubt that youare seeing excellent regeneration after opening up the canopy near your camp.Now that the herd's down,I'm seeing the same thing all over.Had you done that back in 1995,I think you'd see much different results.Still,there are many shade tolerant speies that should be presentunder a mature canopy.Those species disappeared long ago because of too many deer.Check out the area near Kelly Cellar that was fenced up until two years ago.There's 100 acres that's as thick as anything I've ever seen.Granted,it's all red maple at this point because a host of other factors effected the oak regeneration.However,it still illustrates what kind of regeneration you can expect with lower deer impact.I didn't want to believe it either,but the deer have had a huge impact on the habitat in this area of the state.The didn't causethe damage all by themselves but at this point,they're one of the biggest limiting factors.Once the habitat gets to the point where it is now,the carrying capacity is diminished and it takes less deer to further impact the regeneration.

I also agree with you that the herd is way down from the area near your camp all the way accross Rocton mountain.That's a huge area with many area of tough access.No way did the hunters reduce the herd all by themselves in that area.Hunting pressure has been way down in thatarea.The habitat is so poor,recruitment has certainly been effected.Back in the early nineties,it was nothing to see 100 deer grazing on the side of the road from the top of Rocton mountain until you reached Mitches restaraunt.Those years of high deer numbers definately took it's toll on the habitat.Unless the deer like mountain laurel,there's not much else to eat without a good mast crop.

I'm not crazy about the liberal appointees running DCNR myself.I'm not sure of their motives but I've yet to see any proof that they want to do away with hunting.

sproulman

there really is no plan to make food plots etc for deer. the dcnr way is to kill off deer so forest can grow. it cant grow with all shade.if the forest was going to be managed for deer and not trees, maple etc for wood, we would have great hunting and lots of deer. its being managed for trees, flowers and bugs now. not deer.the only reason you see new growth in last few years is because the winters are getting warmer and the small stuff is getting a better start and longer time to grow.leaves come off in fall and then in nov,we used to start getting cold weather and snow.NOW, weather is warm into end of dec and back warm in march. this is giving small trees ,say extra 3 months to grow. it is making big impact on the growth you are seeing.its not really low deer numbers its more growing timehere in pa.there is no way dcnr is concerned about deer and its health. they could care less about if deersurviving.they know deer eats a tree growing and theydont want that.its all big money now and deer are not in picture. its wood, jobs,groups that dont hunt.if they can get us out of woods, the better they will feel. you should have seen faces of hikers in stateforestlandwhen i was walking with pistol.is was almost like, we are going to stop you from carrying pistol or gun in woods, buddy. you could see it in their faces. if we dont wake up and see what is happening .its plan to get us out of woods with GUNS.people i see in woods are not hunters or have interest in hunting or guns.without deer etc.these people will now be in control.look at sportsman clubs. they are changing their names to environmental clubs .money that used to go to feeding deer etc. now is going for canoe trips, hiking trails, 4 wheeler trails,horse trails,camping areas,elk viewing,fischer viewing,eagle viewing.on and on. when the non -hunters out number the hunters, which will happen, then hunting will be a thing you only have memories of.i hope we can wake up and put pressure at election time on our local politicians.if not, i see no future on deer hunting in pa.

Four Sox

Read my Sig Sproulman, thats a start!!!!!!