livbucks, im sure that relish was just razzing you. Just like he tried to razz so many others.

matt, i also am not 100% convinced it is a cougar also because i cant see the tail length.yes, it is more flat than round like a cougar.but that size and color etc ,looks like a cougar but without a clear picture of tail ,i am not sure. what i can tell you is I SAW a cougar with tail in this area.also this picture has not been doctored in anyway.thoselast 2 are confirmed and truth.

Here is my suggestion, a new set of eyes, I would post this picture on the MIDWEST forums, with a simple "what is this animal"??......but say it was taken in the EAST. It could be another 6,000 hits who knows but just ask the question........
Cougardaville

I am still trying to find what the plant is, that will help with the height of this cat. Someone here should know the wild weeds of Pa.???

I am gonna say it is rhody thats been domesticated and decapataded from a dull pair of snips. The cat is about 18 inches tall from that pick.Just a guess..

The only reason there is any argument at all over whether or not livbucks pic is a mountain lion or a bob cat is due to the fact that it is a very poor picture. None of the features that everyone uses to unquestionably identify the cat are clearly visible so at first glance one could go either way. When I first saw the pic I thought cougar but on closer inspection there are features on the cat that are clearly visible and only found on a bob cat.


But what difference does it make anyway? Like I've said before, even if the pic was unquestionably a cougarwould it settle the question of whether or not wild cougars exist in PA? Of course not! How many pics have we all seen that are clearly mountain lions and said to be taken in PA already?Is anybody naive enough to think one more will settle the debate? As far as I'm concerned, until a widly accepted and traditional information source such as a government agency or university or organization of equal stature that holds the confidence of the majority of the people VERIFY the existence of a wild population of cougars in PA the majority of people simply aren't going to believe it. And because not only will these information sources not verify it butin unison say there is simply no evidence to support those who claimML's exist in PA, the majority will notonly not believe it but will ridicule those who do.

Unfortunately, this whole ML in PA thing has taken on an aura not unlike the phenomenon of people clamoring to proove big foot exists.

Very True Sylvan - proving this is a cougar or not will not really solve the question everyone wants answered it will only solve the question of weather or not the pic is of a mt lion or a bobcat -

I think this thread has pretty much turned into a thread of who is right/who is wrong, I told you so and now I am taking my ball and going home type of debate.

I did open the pic in paint and try to point out something I noticed in the pic though. You have to look carfully because the pic is not great quality but I highlighted and area that would be where the tail should be and is not entirely clear to me that the tail is not there - but, it may also be the tail blending in with the far side rear leg. What do you think?

I think we need a better pic next time.
Where is that guy that is punching the horse?

Jhoffman,
Not sure what you're seeing there?

What you have outlined, (and you even gave the base diameter a little more girth than it shows in the pic) portrays a tail that in reality isn't much bigger , if at all, in diameter than the tail of an average shorthaired housecat.
A cougar's tail appearance is about the diameter of it's forelegs and roughly 1/2 the diameter of it's neck (Fluff included). Clearly the portion of your outline doesn't come close to that.
Even if a tail of that diameter was hidden by the foliage, the base is clearly visible and there's nothing there even remotely close to what should be showing.

Not trying to be a "Know it all"........just applying what evidenceIS clearly present, not what might or might not be there.
If the tail doesn't fit.......you must aquit.

Also ,How are you guys not seeing the facial tuft in those pics either? You can see a relatively clear brown triangle of fur extending down thru the animal's neckline behind it's jaw. You can even see either the shadow of, or the black edging of it where the white of the neck picks back up.

I do enjoy the discussion , especially since I am familiar with the area this pic was taken but please don't take my interpretation of the pics as personal attacks. I am just trying to point out the obvious evidence that this cannot be a cougar.

Livbucks......

Matt/PA - I zoomed in on the image and isolated the tail area and there was just some distinct shadowing that showed something - like I said in the previous post - not sure what it is and even outlining what I saw when zoomed in on the area its pretty hard to make it out at actual size. Also like I said it could be just part of the back leg. I would like you to know that I am not someone who has just read about mt lions - I do know what their tails look like and they definately have some weight to their tails - This is just not a very clear pic and depending on light and shadows, distance, lense - well you get the picture -

It would be nice to have a nice clear pic of a mt lion though - they are beautiful animals the one my uncle had mounted was done life size - it sits in the branchs of a tree that the trunk was cut down the middle to fit flat against the was in his living room.