i hunt in 8m and 8n and although I've only hunted really seriously these last two years i thought i saw a lot of deer. but every time i talk to a veteran hunter they all say the same thing, "the population is low", "i use to see tons of deer here", "it's not like it use to be". i don't know why they hand out so many tags either. I'm a conservationist and hate the thought of the DEC pulling a fast one but I'm starting to believe it's true. the land i hunt is public but it has a lot of food and edge and has a lot of different terrain. itholds about mid teens of deer before bow when i scout it but probably should hold double that.

i would like to try a plan like PA has. in like three or four years we could see a lot more bucks and bigger ones too. i just don't know if we could actually get the majority of the hunters to follow it. I'd like to think we could.

i plot food and make mock scrapes on a little plot of private land that boarders a ravine. we have scouted this area since bow but have not yet taken a deer. lots of does but no bucks yet. lots of rubs and BIG hoof prints but no sight of a buck. it's very frustrating. my mom's boyfriend saw 18 does one day. but not one buck. now thats just wrong right there.

it is interesting what you've all seen with the nuisance permits. that is sad that they let them rot when there is a venison donationdrop in almost every town. those farmers are just plane lazy.

I don't know if it will help the deer population around were i hunt but I'm going to try predator hunting this winter. some guy did a study on them in i believe Allegheny county and said that they were the main reason for low fawn numbers. said one den could easily take somewheres in the mid teens in fawn kills a spring. if thats true thats quite a shock to a given area for the deer pop to recharge.

we'll good luck to you atlasman, hope you can at least fill the freezer and get a decent buck.