Coyotes are a factor for sure. Especially fawns and deer yarded in deep snow...I see it where I hunt in MA too...

Those deer are from NH and Ontario

Problem with that is how would you ever word that in a law? It's a natural progression for all hunters to move from "brown its down" to "first legal" to "bigger than my last one" to "only big will do". Not all hunters move all through this, some never get past the first stage, all of which is fine, but a personal choice. If a 10 year old kid spends 6 years on youth weekend, then they MIGHT move up that progression naturally. However taking a 10 year old kid out and making him pass up deer cause they don't meet some standard set by someone else, that just doesn't make sense.

The idea of youth weekend is to get the kid a shot chance and then have to teach him how to do it. Its not as easy as we all think. I have two boys both of who completely botched their first chances every on youth weekends. Take the shakes/buck fever we all get and transplant it into a young kid then step back and watch the fun [&:] My oldest had to be talked through his first successfull shot, my youngest this year (13) didn't take the shot cause he didn't know what he could/couldn't do with a walking deer at 20 yards with a rifle in his hand (my fault for not getting him into a position so I could whisper in his ear).

Youth weekend is also for teaching lessons. I have my son convinced now that you can NEVER make a mistake by NOT shooting. You may not get a deer you could have, but when you do NOT shoot you can't make a mistake and wound one. Taking bad shots is the mistake. This little guy has turned into my most consistent and dedicated hunting partner, we've now logged MANY hours in the woods and he now has to follow the "adult" rules since its general gun season. He's had deer around him that we couldn't shoot, he's been busted moving when we didn't see the deer, and he's been caught literally "with his pants down" once We have no deer, but we have fun stories to tell come Christmas!

This is a great forum. I have been reading it for a while but have just never taken the time to sign up. But, being a Vermonter, I thought this post would be a good start.

I don't think any one cure will solve our problem in VT. Many things have compounded to put us in the state we are in now. Coyotes, habitat, winter, jacking, etc. all add to our problem. At least the state is listening to hunters and making an attempt to fix it, no matter how short it falls of the solution. Hopefully when I have kids old enough to hunt youth weekend, which is good the way it is, they will have some success. Until it does get better I will continue to do what more and more Vermonters are doing and hunt in other states.

Also, I do believe the Benoits shoot there deer in Maine. Which is why I walked out of a seminar when "Vermont's Hunting Family" said they hunt in Maine. Maybe they should be "Maine's Hunting Family".

My cousin lives in Waitsfield with his son. His son got a spike over youth weekend after 4 or 5 years without a deer. You can only imagine his excitement. Without a doubt another hunter in the making.

Thanks for the clarification.

Habitat is the biggest issue. I live in central Vermont and have been doing habitat improvement on our 95 acres for 4 years now. We started with logging and have progressed through planting trees and bushes, releasing existing apple and oak trees, creating a sanctuary, and planting food plots. My 10 year old daughter started hunting this year with me. Although neither of us took a deer, we had close to 40 sighting between youth weekend and rifle season. I would say somewhere in the neighborhood of 15 to 20 different deer. I think we are on the brink of some fantastic hunting. I had pictures this summer/fall of 4 different 1.5 year old bucks plus there was a 6pt and 4pt near by. This stuff really works! The turkeys, grouse, and bearalso benefit from the habitat improvements.

Antler restriction and limited antlerless harvest will only help. The kill will be down, but hopefully everyone will hang one for a year or two and start to see some good results. The state really needs to agressively log the state land to create more browes and improve the deer yards.

I am a board member of the First Vermont Branch of the Quality Deer Management Association. This is a great organization dedicated to habitat improvement and keeping the herd with the carrying capasity of the land. Make no mistake, this isn't about growing trophy antlers (although it is a great by-product), it's about having a healthy well managed herd. Anyone who has an interest in deer hunting should really join this organization (www.qdma.com). If you would like more information on what the Vermont branch is doing, shoot me an email at [email protected].

. . . Rob

I agree Rob. The other factors play a role. But habitat is #1

Here are some of the early kill numbers. About 95% reported through 12/21/05.

Archery: 1,677
Youth: 1,296
Rifle: 3,834
Muzzleloader: 1,351

Total so far in 2005: 8,158
Total for 2004: 11,925

Down 31.6% to date, but will improve slightly as final reporting is done.

. . . Rob

need some help with those coyotes??? let me know! I'll be happy to help!

I am sure many hunters in VT would be glad for you to come up and harvest as many as legal. I believe the season is open all year there. Here in MA, the season is open until earlyspring. Please come here and take as many yotes as you can.