Go Back  HuntingNet.com Forums > Regional Forums > Northeast
 License problems in NY- NY Outdoor News. >

License problems in NY- NY Outdoor News.

Northeast ME, NH, VT, NY, CT, RI, MA, PA, DE, WV, MD, NJ Remember, the Regional forums are for hunting topics only.

License problems in NY- NY Outdoor News.

Old 09-13-2005, 04:22 PM
  #1  
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Caledonia, NY
Posts: 773
Default License problems in NY- NY Outdoor News.

How 'bout that? Scary huh? We actually lightly covered the problem here too!

Taken from NY Outdoor News site:
DECALS snafu costing some hunters DMPs

Thursday, September 8, 2005 8:50 AM CDT








By Brad Sisson Contributing Writer

Albany -- A flaw in the DEC Automated Licensing System (DECALS) is costing some hunters their chance at obtaining a second Deer Management Permit (DMP) for the upcoming season.
The problem stems from an oversight that lets hunters apply for DMPs in areas where they have no chance of getting the permit. Forty-three Wildlife Management Units (WMU) in seven of the nine DEC regions are classified as having no second DMPs available for the 2005 deer season.

John O'Pezio, the lead biologist for the Big Game Section of the DEC and the Division of Fish and Wildlife's representative on the DECALS team, admits "the constraint in the {DECALS} system is less than ideal, but one we hope to fix in the future."





He attributes the error to the DECALS allowing only one classification for a WMU. "The current system does not give us a second option to close a WMU to application for a DMP. Either it is open on both first and second permit selection, or it's closed altogether," said O'Pezio.

O'Pezio conceded that hunters from across the state have already been affected, and that more will be as license sales progress.Niles Hickey of Caledonia, Livingston County, and a longtime hunter in WMU 9P, applied for his second DMP for that unit which, unknowingly to him, is one of the 43 that do not have second DMPs available for 2005. Hickey was subsequently turned down, and found out about the DECALS flaw just after application. He feels that the DEC is acting too slowly on a problem that should have been apparent from the beginning.

"The state shouldn't lead on hunters in this sort of fashion. We pay good money for our licenses, and it gives the sport a black eye to find out hunters threw away their tags (choices) after the fact," said Hickey.

In addition to the system error, Hickey believes the slow action by the state in addressing the problem is further evidence that the DEC is not handling the management of New York's deer herd efficiently.

"During the off-season, both hunters and the DEC agreed that DMP numbers needed to be reduced, yet we still see farms being handed nuisance or DMAP (Deer Management Assistant Program) permits with little scrutiny," said Hickey. "Add that in with the problem in DECALS, and you've got many concerned hunters who feel like they've been burned one too many times."

In light of the DECALS flaw, the DEC has sent out temporary corrective measures to outlets where licenses can be purchased. They believe this to be the best possible option available right now, according to O'Pezio.

"Agents and clerks in stores and the phone center have been sent notices that ask them to read the list of closed Wildlife Management Units in order to prevent a hunter from applying for areas that have a zero probability," O'Pezio said. "On top of that, we have been monitoring our online sales to alert hunters prior to application for DMPs."

Despite the best efforts of the DEC to limit hunters from losing their chance at a second Deer Management Permit, O'Pezio acknowledges implementation in the field is tough.

"Unfortunately, there will be hunters who apply through DECALS for zero probability units as their second DMP selection; the issue could affect a large number of our hunters for 2005," he said.

Currently, there is no information available that shows exactly how many hunters have applied for zero probability units in the past, or so far for this season's licenses. Hunters who do apply for DMPs in zero chance units are out of luck when it comes to re-applying for a different area. "Once a hunter makes their selections, they have no recourse from that point forward," O'Pezio said.

Even with the corrective actions, O'Pezio feels there is a certain level of responsibility which the hunter has to assume when applying for DMPs.

"The probabilities of Deer Management Permits vary from year to year, and even more so this season. We send out booklets that inform hunters of the odds for each unit before licenses go on sale, and they need to look at the chances for selection," he said.

When asked for a timeline on the correction of the problem, O'Pezio said "the development of DECALS has progressed a bit slower than we have liked, forcing us to put off some enhancements of the system to complete it. There is no question that the issue is high on our radar. I wish I could tell you it will be fixed by next year, but we really do not know at this point."
Phade is offline  
Old 09-13-2005, 11:10 PM
  #2  
Nontypical Buck
 
BuckAlley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Altmar New York USA
Posts: 1,247
Default RE: License problems in NY- NY Outdoor News.

I agree, and disagree with this article. I agree the DECALS system could be much improved. I'd like to see that hunters cannot apply for WMU's that are closed or require Preference pts if they have none. I know people who are purposely making 1st selections in WMU's they cannot recieve a DMP to get a Preference pt for 06'.
But I also disagree in a way, because I feel hunters should be responsible to know what they are applying for, no less than hunters being responsible to know the game laws. The gentleman mentioned that applied for his 2nd choice in a area that was closed. Well under the circumstances its his own fault for not doing his homework before hand. He should've taken the time to find out which WMU's were open. Especially enlight of the DMP cutbacks.
BuckAlley is offline  
Old 09-14-2005, 05:51 AM
  #3  
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Delhi, NY (by way of Chenango Forks)
Posts: 1,706
Default RE: License problems in NY- NY Outdoor News.

I don't beleive you can apply for a permit in a WMU that has none offerred. The computer won't physically let them punch it in (I thought that was the whole jist of the article - in units with no chance of 1st/2nd permit there was no issues, but in uints with a chance for 1st and none for second they able to physically apply although there was no chance to get one).

As far as the article and the person/people complaining about the system, my reply is: "READ THE DARN HUNTING QUIDE!!!!!!!" (OR LOOK AT THE DEC SITE IF NO GUIDE IS AVAILABLE). I take my hunting seriously and make darn sure where I can and can't get permits and we base our decisions accordingly. All it takes is a little research - not brain surgery. IMO those who applied for a second permit in an area with 0% chance and are complaining are idiots.

As far as DECALS goes, I think is is an improvement over the past licensing procedures. It has been impreoved every year and will continue to get better.
doughboysigep is offline  
Old 09-14-2005, 06:46 AM
  #4  
Fork Horn
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 121
Default RE: License problems in NY- NY Outdoor News.

I only caught the tail end of the conversation, but the guy in front of me couldn't even apply for DMPs.

He had a lifetime license that he had bought years ago, but apparently he wasn't in the system.

I don't know if this is an isolated incidence or not.
Tom_L is offline  
Old 09-14-2005, 07:51 AM
  #5  
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Caledonia, NY
Posts: 773
Default RE: License problems in NY- NY Outdoor News.

It is indeed true that the system will allow you to apply for2nd permits in areas where you have no chance to get them, if permits are offered in the 1st selection. At the very least, DECALS should be fixed to prevent that from happening.
Phade is offline  
Old 09-14-2005, 07:55 AM
  #6  
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Caledonia, NY
Posts: 773
Default RE: License problems in NY- NY Outdoor News.

ORIGINAL: BuckAlley


But I also disagree in a way, because I feel hunters should be responsible to know what they are applying for, no less than hunters being responsible to know the game laws. The gentleman mentioned that applied for his 2nd choice in a area that was closed. Well under the circumstances its his own fault for not doing his homework before hand. He should've taken the time to find out which WMU's were open. Especially enlight of the DMP cutbacks.
Trust me it's not only him. It is believed to have affected over 1,000 hunters at the minimum. The flaw has been in the system from the get go, not just this year. Most of the hunters who have been affected are a result of the info packets not getting mailed to the houses or site updatebefore licenses were purchased. Mailings to the stores themselves were not available for almost the first week of sales.Still, the flaw in DECALS is a major blow to what the state claims it is.

Add to that, the DEC made no effort whatsoever to publicize the flaw. You'd think they'd be proactive about this, knowing the probelm since DECALS was created.
Phade is offline  
Old 09-14-2005, 08:13 AM
  #7  
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Delhi, NY (by way of Chenango Forks)
Posts: 1,706
Default RE: License problems in NY- NY Outdoor News.

we are all grown ups. simple idea, take responsiblity for your mistake of not knowing what was what with the DMPs. If you don't know, ask. If they can't tell you, wait. Do a lttle research. Don't place the blame on someone else for your own "ignornance". If it was a law you were breaking, you think the judge is going to accept "well, I didn't know it was that way" or "they didn't tell me that". Yes, it can/should be fixed/improved and I'm sure it will be.

ps - the "you" and "your"are not pointed to any one specific
doughboysigep is offline  
Old 09-14-2005, 01:35 PM
  #8  
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sackets Harbor, New York
Posts: 2,509
Default RE: License problems in NY- NY Outdoor News.

i have to agree with some people here. If you go buy your license, right there on the counter is the regulation book. you open it up and find the page with the dmp information. you look up your WMA, if it has 1st choice ones, you say that one. Then you look at the second column, if your area is in the none section, you dont pick it
If you dont get your permit, its not the computers fault you didnt look it up.

I only hunt in one area, and any others around that i could possible have the opportunity to hunt have none. SO when i got my license i didnt even give a second choice. sometimes i put 6G twice, I know im not going to get a second one, but oh well, doesnt hurt me any, i only hunt in 6G, im not going to take one from another area, if im not going to use it
tj_cubin is offline  
Old 09-19-2005, 05:38 AM
  #9  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: W Suffield Ct
Posts: 204
Default RE: License problems in NY- NY Outdoor News.

Another little glitch in system or documentation is apparently the word'none' has a different meaning in New York then it does elsewhere. I only hunt in one place also, which has no DMP's available this year. So I attempted to apply for area that specificly states 'none' for non-residents just to try and pad preferance points and sure enough I got picked. 4 years of waiting and I'll be starting all over again as I have no idea where this place is , and have no intention of trying to find a place to hunt there. I guess because of this I also burned someone else from getting DMP there.
RayC is offline  
Old 09-19-2005, 05:44 AM
  #10  
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sackets Harbor, New York
Posts: 2,509
Default RE: License problems in NY- NY Outdoor News.

Ray, what unit was it in? maybe you could transfer it to someone who hunts int hat area. i dont know if you can transfer a nonrsident doe permit though.
tj_cubin is offline  

Quick Reply: License problems in NY- NY Outdoor News.


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.