superdave10x

this is no way the decs fault .....its all in black and white....reg book and web site and has been that way for as long as i can remember.....regardless how many permits where give out....so if you need the dec to hand cart you everywhere maybe you need to hand in your firearms...cause i dont want you in my woods...................

Phade

There's no question some of the honus goes onto the hunter. However, I'm amazed at your response, which lacks the depth of understanding of the situation I think, and not one which you have viewed all the facts before making a statement like that.

#1. You think it is okay for the DEC to do this? Have this problem, not make it public for YEARS, then offer little to no effort to make the problem publicly known and to fix the issue? Remember, they still don't think it'll be fixed by next year....

#2 The large majority of hunters who were affected got their license before the DEC was able to get the books deliveredAND site updated. The DEC either dragged their feet on getting the books delivered and site updated, or a backup occurred on both from production, but I doubt that was the case, more likely the former.

#3. The government is supposed to provide safeguards, in all areas. How would you like the bank system to fail, and when you attempt to withdraw money from your bank account, you find it is all gone and you have no restitution? That's what the FDIC is for. Same principle, the government has a public duty to provide backstops.

So, in a complete objective look, the hunters should look at the books before applying. However, the state is just as at fault for not creating a system that works without a major issue like this. They should have delayed DMP application if the books and/or site was delayed in being delivered or uploaded. On top of this, they should have made a public effort to make hunters aware of this problem. But the best part is that they have no idea on when they will attempt to fix this. I think that is the worst part of their management of the issue, by far. It's like saying, hey screw you...in a politically correct way.

I think it is a 50/50 split on responsibility. The hunters have to look out for their own well-being, but the state government has to provide a safe, ethical, and working system because it is their responsibility to the public.

A random statement like saying the DEC is not responsible is pretty bold-faced with the current information.

The DECALS system is a good one, but there has to be more attention given to it now in order to make it a great one.

superdave10x

again in my opinion the dec has done no wrong.......this system(dmp percentages being posted)has been this way for as long as i can remember....the percentages where all in plain view to everyone at all issueing outlets that i went to.......if people cant take 2 min to read then why blame someone else...............answer me this.......the system was the same last year...why didnt you hear about it........it boils down to this....some people are pissed about the way the dec is handleing the deer herd...so they need things to complain about.....if these people need the dec to hold there hands when getting there liscense...then maybe they should hand in there firearms..cause i dont want them in my woods......

also...i am always on the web site....and it was posted before liscenses went on sale

Phade

It's happened since the beginning of DECALS in NY. Why haven't you heard about it?...because of the drastic change in herd dynamics and the DMP numbers moving % wise so sharply this year. Less tags = more people affected. Simple logic there.

If those percentages are there in black and white...why does the computer let you apply for the areas where it says none are available? Better yet, how did the one out of stater get a tag in an area where none where available for him? Yet you think the DEC has nothing to do with this. They certainly do have a portion of liability in it.

I'll continue to say that it is not all on the hunter in that the gov't has to provide a black and white (in your words) percentage, which they did not do completely correct. If it was, people wouldn't be able to apply for zones that have none available, and people getting tags where there are supposedly none available...sure seems like black and white to me...Definite 50/50 split on this one in responsibility...

You seem stuck on the percentages being posted. If those percentages were true in the highest sense of the definition, we wouldn't have these problems. Correct? explain the percentage of the out of stater getting 1 out of ZERO available to him? I'd like to see that in balck and white...

superdave10x

ok..im not saying that decals doesnt need some refurbishing, and ill get to that in a minute...however i dont think the fact that people cant do there home work is not the decs fault, i also agree with some people applying for the sole purpose of getting a pref point....why not......and because more people are affected then is appropriate to complain...give me a break.......

the only serious problem i see with the dec(not just the decals) is this.....

just an example.....
how do they come up with a wmu that is med for your first choice and low for the 2nd choice........which in all reality some one could be turned down for the first selection(med)....but someone else could get a 2nd(low)...........simple logic tells me it should be......high chance for first and none for 2nd.........

and how the non res got a dmp in a none ...is beyond me.(and thats a glitch)....but its unrelated to someone mistakingly appling for a 2nd in a none wmu......and not getting it.....when all they had to do is take 2 min to read it.......and these are going to be the same people that are going to be useing a shotgun in the counties that now allow rifles cause they were not called by the dec and told of the change.......and some how it will all come back on the dec......

Phade

LOL, you just acknowledged the glitch in one aspect and then not in another...

It is the same glitch...the system only allows for one class distinction. The very same glitch that lets hunters APPLY for no chance second DMP zones is the same one that allows a non-resident to apply for and get a DMP in a zone that does not allow non-residents a chance.... it is because they only have one class distinction for a zone...open or closed. Same glitch....

The non resident was drawing from the resident pool of DMP's. Why? because of only one class distinction... If it is open for the resident, then they can't close it for the non...vice versa with hunter's applying for no chance zones.

Yet you see no problem with it on the opposite end...

Like I said for the eleventhousandthbillionth time...it is equal on fault for both the hunter and the DEC. The hunter looks for their well being, but they should have faith in the DECALS system to be a failsafe. If they overlooked something, or read the graph wrong on accident, and applied for the wrong zone (one that is a no chance 2nd zone), I'd like to think the computer would say to the 5 dollar an hour employee at Wal-martsomething along the lines as "This is a no chance zone, please select again."...It's not rocket science by any means, but mistakes happen on both ends, and both need to be improved....hunter and DECALS alike...that's my whole point.

Phil__

Your point is noted.

However, all of this rambling can be distilled down to one inalienable truth...applying for a DMP in a zone where there is no chance of getting one is plain dumb. When I apply, I first do a little simple reading and come to a carefully conceived decision. Although I have sought councel of many a Wal-Mart guy, he will not guide me in that decision.
I suspect that the DEC will make software changes so that people can't blame the DEC for their own screw-ups.

-Phil

tj_cubin

um... no. it isnt the same glitch. allowing the nonresident to apply for it a closed area is the same glitch, allowing him to get one from a closed area is a different glitch(we arent talking about residents getting them in closed areas, are we?), and irelevant to the discussion of people being allowed to apply for closed areas.

The fact is that people are applying for places they wont get one, they applied for the wrong area, oh well, they messed up. I looked at the book for a few minutes before buying my license. I saw that i have a medium chance in 6g for my first choice, and none for my second choice. i then looked at near by areas that i may get a chance to hunt, and saw that they did not have second choice permits, so i didnt have a second choice. I looked at the numbers and saw where i could get a tag or not. If I had applied for the wrong area, it would ahve been MY FAULT.
Yeah, the DEC should fix this error, to stop people from whining. but i dont think they were in the wrong.

doughboysigep

I think some statements made here are plain wrong ("applying for a permit with no chance is wrong/stupid, etc").In the areas with 0% chance for any DMP (take my area, 7M) you cannot apply for a DMP. Plain and simple - the computer will not let the issuing agent type it in or bring up that unit for a choice (I have tried, just to see what happens). The issue here is with the areas with a chance for a first DMP and 0% chance for a second - that is where the clitch is (yes, it is a glitch that should be addressed). As the system is now, there is no way for DECALS to distingish betwwen chance for a 1st DMP and 0% for 2nd - ie the computer will not allow for a distinction, therefore the issuing agent can physically type in for a second DMP in an area that has 0% chance.

I still have no sympathy for the people who didn't do a little checking first. Not hard to do. If there wasn't books available the first day, they could have waited. Stop trying to blame the govt. (DEC in this case) for all of"your" problems.

Phade

TJ- It is the same glitch. It has to do with the class distinctions of the WMU.

The same glitch, open or closed category, allows the out of state hunter to apply and get a resident's DMP. It is the same glitch.

If the zone is open to hunters for a first permit and not on the second, they have to label it as open for application on both permits, although none are available for the second. That is where hunters lose their permit chances.

If the zone is open to residents, and not non-residents, the zone has to be open for application, of which if a non-resident applies, he actually can draw and get a resident's permit because that zone can only be open or closed, not distinguished by 1st or second zone, or resident or non-resident. The limit on distiniction open or closed is the problem here that the DEC needs to fix.

Same glitch, clearly, and simple to understand.