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I need a pocket pistol

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I need a pocket pistol

Old 02-10-2020, 08:17 PM
  #51  
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What he said. ^^^^
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Old 02-11-2020, 06:35 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Valorius View Post
I am completely unconvinced that a short light single action trigger with no safety on a gun designed to be carried in your pocket is "much better" for CCW use.
The LCP II is not a “short, light single action trigger.” It’s a single action trigger with heavy springs and an EXTREME positive angle sear. Comparatively, the Gen 2 LCP and the LCP II have very similar trigger pull weights. The triggers do feel different, a more linear curve in the LCP II design and a bit shorter. But nobody will pretend the LCP II has even a poor quality single action trigger by the standards of a 1911, or even a Ruger Mark Series trigger. In fact, due to the camming action of the Gen II DAO design, the pull weight of the Gen II LCP is actually a bit lighter right before the break than the LCP II trigger, so I would imagine many shooters who “stage” their triggers would shoot the Gen II LCP better than they would the LCP II.

Simply put - the LCP II has more safeties than the Gen I or II LCP, and is no more or less vulnerable to ND by an object entering the trigger guard.

Originally Posted by Valorius View Post
There is no disputing the LCP II would shoot much nicer groups, but that is not much concern for a CCW gun, IMO.
On target, any difference between my LCP II or Gen II LCP is purely incidental - although personally, with some color appliqué, I can see the Gen II LCP sights better than I can the LCP II sights, such in my hands, my LCP II typically doesn’t shoot as small as my Gen II LCP. Again, we’re talking about similar trigger pull weights, similar sight radius and poor sight design inherent to micro pistols - the trigger pull on the LCP II is just a little shorter, but still exceptionally long.

Originally Posted by Valorius View Post
The LCP II trigger mechanism is basically a Glock copy, action wise. What do Glock owners say all the time? "The holster is the safety.”
I have never met a Glock owner who has ever said this - as Glock owners are typically informed sufficiently to know their pistols have three safety mechanisms. I have often heard other Glock-critics make the same silly statement, however.

Equally, the LCP II isn’t a Glock-type action, not any moreso than is a 1911 at least. The LCP II is a hammer-fired pistol which utilizes a trigger bar: a linkage-type sear. It’s rather unique in design, but not a Glock striker fired design. However, like the Glock striker fired design, which is technically a non-repeating-trigger DAO design, the LCP II is safe to carry with its internal safeties and a simple holster which covers the trigger guard - just like all DA and DAO revolvers and pistol ever built.

I do favor the grip feel (with Hogue monogrip) and the sights of the Gen II, and the aesthetics of the Gen II as well, but there’s really a lot of illogical and incorrect bad hype flying around the internet about the LCP II by folks who really don’t understand the design, and I expect have never even held one in their hands.
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Old 02-11-2020, 10:25 PM
  #53  
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I disagree, the LCP II trigger is light and short compared to any actual DAO. Of course don't let me or the many reviewers who have said that change your mind.

The LCP (all models) has a semi cocked hammer....just like the glock has a pre-loaded striker. For all practical purposes they are the same.

It is a common refrain amongst glock aficionados that the holster is the safety. To the point i've seen it typed and heard it said dozens of times over the years. It's almost as common as when people wiggle their finger ala black hawk down and say "this is my safety."

And to the contrary, most glock owners, and most gun owners in general, know very, very little about guns. I have met countless cops- and these are supposedly trained individuals- who do not even know what model of glock they are carrying. Just "glock."

The average glock owner is utterly clueless as to it's three safety mechanisms. Now the average "Gun guy" is another story entirely. But most gun owners are not "gun people."

The trigger on a Gen II LCP and LCP II could not be more different, and the overwhelming number of reviewers have commented how much easier the LCP II is to shoot well. (I personally think the custom/10th anniv model is better than both).

Last edited by Valorius; 02-11-2020 at 10:30 PM.
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Old 02-11-2020, 10:32 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Oldtimr View Post
Actually the brain of the person carrying the handgun is the safety on all handguns. It doesn't matter if the gun is carried in the pocket or a holster you simply do not put your finger on the trigger until the gun is on target and you will not have to worry about an accidental discharge. I carry a Kahr MK 40, it is a striker gun like a Glock and has no safety. The fact it has no safety probably saved my life several years ago, I walked up to a 165 lb wild boar I shot and I thought was dead. After a reasonable amount of time I approached it to take pictures. I took one picture from the side and then walked to the front to get a picture of the cutters, I was about 4 feet away camera in hand rifle slung on my shoulder. When the flash on the camera went off the hog blinked,and before I could say oh s--t he charged me. I drew and fired in one motion and killed him at my feet. If I had to deal with a safety under those circumstances he most likely would have tore me up and I would have bed to death . Guns with no safety are not the problem, people who can't keep their fingers off the trigger before it is time to shoot are the problem.
All people are human and make mistakes. Safety features provide a margin of error in those cases where Mr. Murphy reminds you that you are not Jesus.

"To err is human."


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Old 02-12-2020, 01:20 AM
  #55  
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I think you're proving his point. He's not saying that people don't make mistakes--they do. He didn't say that people aren't the cause of AD's--they are. Although OT is capable off speaking for himself, the philosophy he mentioned is that a person is responsible for handling a gun in a safe manner. The deliberate act of not putting your finger on the trigger until you're ready and have decided to shoot substantially cuts down on AD's and ND's.
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:51 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by Valorius View Post
...Of course don't let me or the many reviewers who have said that change your mind....
Of course, I don’t let any anonymous online review nor regurgitated babble supersede my direct experience....
Attached Thumbnails I need a pocket pistol-8b634839-fe35-46d1-8805-5d8ba5eda6c9.jpeg  

Last edited by Nomercy448; 02-12-2020 at 09:59 AM.
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Old 02-12-2020, 10:56 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by CalHunter View Post
I think you're proving his point. He's not saying that people don't make mistakes--they do. He didn't say that people aren't the cause of AD's--they are. Although OT is capable off speaking for himself, the philosophy he mentioned is that a person is responsible for handling a gun in a safe manner. The deliberate act of not putting your finger on the trigger until you're ready and have decided to shoot substantially cuts down on AD's and ND's.
Having your gun go off in your pocket is not really related to your finger on the trigger, but rather the action type of the firearm itself.

We can all say "finger off trigger til ready to shoot" , and repeat the 4 rules of safety till blue in the face. People still break them every day. Some designs are more forgiving of mistakes than others. Some are not.

For my money, a true DAO is by far the safest action type for pocket carry. Hency my affinity for the LCP1 and specifically the Custom/10A models.
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Old 02-12-2020, 10:58 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Nomercy448 View Post
Of course, I don’t let any anonymous online review nor regurgitated babble supersede my direct experience....
Considering that I have nearly 30 years of CCW experience, both professional and personal, neither do I.

Other opinions are always welcome. PS: you are an anonymous online poster "regurgitating" your own views as well. (As am I, in all fairness).
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Old 02-12-2020, 11:47 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Valorius View Post
Having your gun go off in your pocket is not really related to your finger on the trigger, but rather the action type of the firearm itself.

We can all say "finger off trigger til ready to shoot" , and repeat the 4 rules of safety till blue in the face. People still break them every day. Some designs are more forgiving of mistakes than others. Some are not.

For my money, a true DAO is by far the safest action type for pocket carry. Hency my affinity for the LCP1 and specifically the Custom/10A models.

You are still missing the point, completely! When you have 27 years experience as a police firearms instructor and have trained hundreds of recruits, developed and initiated training programs for continuing training, much of it stress training to teach officers how being under stress affects how a person reacts and how not to allow it to make you forget everything you have been taught, then, perhaps you will be in a position to contradict what I said in my previous post. What I said is inarguable, if your finger is not on the trigger your gun will not fire.

Last edited by Oldtimr; 02-12-2020 at 11:49 AM.
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Old 02-14-2020, 09:51 PM
  #60  
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Oh, the old interwebs one upmanship.

OK I can play that game too.

Well when you have 33 years experience carrying firearms in the infantry as well training US soldiers to shoot, then as a civilian professionally and personally in the ghettos of three of the most violent cities in the free world, come talk to me.

Appeals to authority, not impressive.

Quite frankly cops as a whole are literally the least impressive people in the whole of the shooting community. Both knowledge wise and skills wise.

Last edited by Valorius; 02-14-2020 at 09:55 PM.
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