MudderChuck

The ideal for ethical hunting is to put it down and dead as quickly and cleanly as possible.

Unless you are an expert marksman the chances increase for wounding an animal, instead of killing it, with smaller calibers.

In many places the smallest caliber considered sufficient for a reliable kill on larger game animals used to be a .270 or 6.5 mm. They've relaxed that some in some places.

I say if you are good enough go for it. if you aren't an expert or reasonably competent, one of the responsibilities of an ethical hunter is to never let a wounded animal suffer. If you are going to be ethical and use a .223 IMO be prepared to spend many, many hours tracking wounded game through brush, heat, ticks, biting flies or whatever to find that Deer or Hog you wounded. I've walked myself into total exhaustion on more than one occasion tracking a wounded animal.

Going out and shooting up the countryside, wounding animals and letting them run off to die a terrible death isn't hunting, it is thrill killing IMO. And thrill killers give everybody who is into shooting sports and/or hunting a bad name.

super_hunt54

As stated up there somewhere Kachok, the AR 15 comes in all kinds of flavors nowadays. I hog hunt with either the 6.8 SPCII or my .458 SOCOM. The 6.8 has absolutely no problem whatsoever knocking them down and the .458 put's them down with the lightning and the thunder of Zeus! I also own a 7mm.08 AR 10 thats just over 10 pounds but it's got a fairly long barrel since thats what I use presently for longer distance hogs. Just put in the order today for a new AR build. .338FED to take over long distance hog duties. Just gotta love that .308 parent case!

Nomercy448

I hunt with my AR-15's. I don't have any rambo/zombie/prepper/whackjob delusion for my AR's - I build accurate hunting rifles with my specific tastes and purposes in mind. None of which include "shooting up the countryside" or "wounding animals" or "miles and miles of tracking." Too many folks are quick to criticize others, simply because they've never taken time to learn how to shoot quickly AND accurately.

The bottom rifle and the matching upper is my most recent addition, a 204Ruger for smaller furbearers and a 6.8SPCII for longer shots on coyotes and deer - a matching 5.56/.223 upper on the bench right now for my coyote work.


Here's an M4A2 with which I've taken hundreds of coyotes, dozens of hogs, and a handful of deer.


I have a few others in the safes, and have had a great number of others. My 458Socom was a VERY fun rifle, as was the 450Bushmaster - giving the edge to the Socom for the bullet construction. Mike's 358WSSM looks VERY intriguing. I have a Bushy Varminter and a DPMS Oracle (just got it back from my BIL) that have taken plenty of hogs and a few deer also. I don't believe I'd buy another 50Beowulf, and I have no use for a 300Whisper (aka Blackout). I really liked my Grendel, but I REALLY like the 6.8. My next upper will likely be a 6-6.8.

I keep looking for a good excuse to pick up a 25WSSM from DTech. Really liked the 243WSSM version, just needed another rifle more.

I'll comment that I don't find the AR-10 to be the same animal as an AR-15. I've had many of them, but they just miss the mark for me. Too heavy when balanced well, and poorly balanced when weighted well. I have had a 243WSSM AR-15 upper, which I find to be superior to the 243win LR-308 that I had. I have an AR-10 receiver set on my shelf right now that will either be a 338Fed, or maybe a 338WSM or maybe 416WSM if I can pull it off.

Sheridan

I find 2 major benefits to the AR platform.

#1 Follow-up shots

#2 Quicker sling carrying (just roll-up)

I use mine when still hunting predators......................missed a few opportunities with my gun slung over my shoulder.

NoMercy - Are those two "earth tone" handguards from Midwest Industries ?

Nomercy448

15" Flat Dark Earth Troy Alpha Rails. They look almost identical to the older Midwest Industries forends, but they do mount differently. The old Midwests used to - maybe still do? - have two clamping screws at the bottom, the Troys use a set of wedges around the barrel nut. I like the smaller diameter on these, super light weight, and they seem to be plenty solid so far.

MudderChuck

Cherry picking my post doesn't prove much. I said if you are competent enough go for it. Honestly how many people out of hundred are good enough? Just an opinion, an AR 15 in .223 or another other type of rifle in that caliber is marginal for larger game. You have to be a good shot. You can likely frame a house with a roofers hammer, a framing hammer would probably work better. Having the right tool for the job is most always the better way.

Bad stuff can happen hunting, nobody is perfect, but IMO using a minor caliber on larger animals is likely to increase the failure rate for the average shooter.

homers brother

.223 isn't allowed for deer in many states. Check your local laws to be sure. My state opened deer and pronghorn to it last year. Is it my first choice? No. Would I discard the opportunity to hunt if it were the only rifle I owned? Absolutely not.

I'm one of those freaks though who, while going to college, filled my freezer with elk three seasons in a row using the only rifle I owned - a .243. I knew I was at a disadvantage, I picked my shots, and was very deliberate about what I was doing. Two dropped in their tracks, one made it maybe 10 yards and dropped. I'm glad I have other choices for elk today, but I was happy to have more than ramen noodles to get me through school.

I'll give the advantage to a hunter with a minimum-allowable chambering who knows he's at a disadvantage and who compensates by honing his shooting skills and being selective on what shots he'll take over the guy who thinks that because he has a bigger gun he no longer needs to pay as much attention to his marksmanship or be selective in what shots he can take. I see plenty of the latter anymore. They lose their share of game as well.

"Target", "game", or "quarry". Many say "caliber", I say "chambering." The shooting sports are fraught with terms used and abused. I suggest we could all be a little more understanding when we know what someone means to say, even when they do it a different way than we might have?

SecondChance

I currently own 2. A RR A4 Custom in .223 Wylde and a custom upper I built in 6.8 SPC. Both shoot sub-MOA if I do my part. Have taken many hogs and 'yotes with them. Have shot MANY over the years, both civilian and LE/Military models. If I were to get another, it would be a NEMO in .338 Lapua.

Ridge Runner

my thoughts
I've taken well over 100 deer with a 223, most of them were with standard soft points back in the day before there were deer bullets for them.
any bullet put into the lungs of a whitetail will kill it correct?
so the difference in using a 22 and a larger bullet comes down to having the patience and discipline to take the shot that will avoid the shoulder bone and hit the lungs, its not something the easily excitable hunter should do but it works, and works well.
If you can't hit a deers vitals with a 223, a bigger gun makes it easier? It would make up somewhat for poor shot placement, but who's gonna openly admit I don't shoot well under pressure so I carry the minimum of a 30 cal.
RR

MudderChuck

The best shot is when the Deer is relaxed, head down feeding, mostly standing sideways to you. I would take that shot with most any center fire rifle, you don't always get that shot.

I've had them bolt from the slightest sound, your rifle touching a wooden rest or railing, a zipper rubbing together. If they bolt right when you shoot, bad things happen.

Twigs or a little grass between you and the Deer. That bullet hits an object, even a tiny one, between you and your target, bad things happen.

The Deer is looking at the rifle and sees the flash. There is something called a withdrawal reflex, it can put an animal in motion before the signal gets processed by the brain. In that fraction of a second it takes the bullet to get from the muzzle to the target, a Deer can be in motion. It only takes a small motion to make a good shot a bad shot.

What I'm saying is it isn't all on the marksman, some of it is just luck. If a shot does go slightly wrong, a larger caliber may be the difference between a quick kill and a lingering kill.

The last long shot I took was right through the ten ring (exactly where I wanted the bullet to go) shooting down hill at 350 yards. I consider myself a passable marksman. My first choice for large game wouldn't be a .223 if I had another option.

Maybe I'm just over sensitive to wounding an animal. The guys that own the lease next to mine shoot at anything that moves and aren't very good at it. Weekend warriors, who drink before they hunt, have somebody else gut their kill if they get lucky and leave a lot of wounded game to flee onto my lease. I've tracked down a lot of their mistakes. The guy next door always wants to argue with me about giving the Deer or hog back, I always laugh at him. I always welcome their donations, it doesn't count on my limit, it counts on their limit (by law here). As a matter of fact, I was the go to guy for tracking wounded game on three leases (and crossovers form neighboring leases), so maybe my perspective is skewed and it seems to me it happens a lot more than it actually does. Say ten to twelve Deer or Hogs a year average, over a 35 year period, adds up to a lot of meat.