statjunk

The calapsable stock is probably the most useful mod on an AR. You'll likely end up buying all the doo-dads. Enjoy.

TT

Nomercy448

Well it sounds like at least you've given it plenty of thought. There are just SO many guys that buy an AR-15, then 6months later (or less) start getting buyers remorse. But for some of us, the AR-15 IS useful, and it's definitely hard to find a more accurate plinking platform.

Since it also sounds like it'll be primarily a plinking rifle, then I would suggest getting an 18" or 20" heavy barrel, flat-top model with a good trigger and free-float handguard (or on a budget, install a trigger kit like a JP enterprises trigger spring kit). Mount a bipod and a good scope. The "short" heavy barrel is still plenty maneuverable, but

Also, since you said you want an adjustable stock, I HIGHLY recommend getting a cheekpiece also. The adjustable stock is great for head up shooting (fast firing without much attention to accuracy)
it's fine, but for using a scope, the adjustable stocks are typically uncomfortable. When adjusted to a proper Length Of Pull, my cheek/jawbone usually rests at the forward end of the slider, so the edge digs in and gets uncomfortable after a few shots. Most "name-brand" telescoping stocks have clip on cheek pieces available.

Easy answer for a "black rifle on a budget", but still getting a quality rifle: DPMS Lo-Pro Classic ($800) plus a JP Enterprises trigger spring kit ($75), have a swivel stud mounted in the forend ($65 by gunsmith), mount a Harris bi-pod ($80), and mount a good scope (Bushnell Banner 4-12x40mm AO $110). It won't have the telescoping stock you want, but you can add one for $60 (a down-grade to be honest, but you're right, it does look cool). That lines up for about $1200 for the rifle with a scope and bi-pod, ready to go...

Camosteel

Thanks NoMercy. Alot of good info. So you prefer the DPMS over the RRA when talking entry level rifles?

Camosteel

Thanks Stat, but I highly doubt I put any do-dads on this. Not my style if you know what I mean.

Nomercy448

The RRA is about $1,000-1,200 for a heavy barreled models around here, which is in line with the Bushmasters, either of which I would recommend at that price (and I wouldn't pay more than that for an AR-15 unless it was a custom job). The DPMS are considerably cheaper, and definitely the best heavy barrel AR-15 available for $700-800 new (mind you, it DOES need a new trigger or trigger spring-kit).

A11en

I had the "itch" a year ago and just bought mine. After doing the research you're now doing, I ended up with the Rock River Arms Tactical Entry. RRA comes with the 2 stage trigger and match barrel for 1100. Once you add a new trigger and barrell to the DPMS, Bushmaster, or S&W, you're in the $1,500 range. Most of the gunsmiths and shops I spoke with favored Rock River for gas operated AR15. LWRC was the top recommended AR for piston systems (I don't need to shoot underwater).

Out to 200 yards it is as accurate as my Rem 700 bolt actions @1 MOA. opens up from there. I'm very happy with RRA.

Get yourself PMAGs to replace the factory magazines. PMAGs are the best. I also highly recommend the Lula mag loader.

fritz1

There is no need to change the barrel or trigger on the Bushmaster. Here is a Bushmaster for you to check out that is under $1500.


http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_xm...VMS-24-9SS.asp

This is the one that I own, it is amazingly accurate!, straight from the factory, no need to change anything. To be honest, I would have threw in another $200 on that RRA and bought one of these, for what you are using yours for instead of a tactical entry weapon. There is no comparison on the range.

homers brother

The AR is a very versatile platform. To really take advantage of it though (i.e. not find yourself with a safe queen), you need to have a pretty good idea what you intend to use it for.

I personally use the AR for varminting and occasionally for turkey hunting, for casual target shooting (not to be confused with "blasting"), and often as a training tool. I own two ARs presently, a Colt Government Model (A2) and a RRA Entry Tactical. I've borrowed friends' Bushmasters, Olympics, DPMS, and kit rifles. Here's what I recommend you consider:

1. General Configuration. There's a lot of variety now compared to what was available 25 years ago when I purchased my Colt. A lot of that is due to the "Picatinny Rail." One now has the opportunity to mount optics at a reasonable height, as well as mount any number of accessories depending on the application. Not only are rear sights now detachable, a number of rifles also offer detachable front sights, which provide a much cleaner platform when using optics. Though the collapsible stock is viewed by many as "tacti-cooler" than the old fixed stock, its TRUE value shines through when one's length of pull may not match the length of the standard fixed stock, particularly for smaller-statured shooters (in my case, wife and daughter) or shooters who wear armor (military, LE, etc.). In my opinion, a six-position collapsible stock is worth the investment, as are detachable front and rear sights.

As far as barrels go, Ridgerunner suggested what's probably the best balance regarding rifling at 1:8. Unfortunately, you may not be able to access that without custom-ordering your rifle, as most of the rifles on your dealers' racks will come in either 1:7 or 1:9. 1:7 seems at its best with bullets heavier than 60 grain, while 1:9 seems at its best with bullets lighter than 55 grain. My AR-wielding comrades tend to confirm my assessment that our 16" 1:7 rifles seem to like the old M193 ball (55 gr) best, while our 20" 1:7 rifles seem to like the newer M855 ball (62 gr) better. Since most of the factory ammunition you're likely going to run through your "plinker" will be 55 gr M193 and its clones, you may not find yourself gaining much with a longer barrel (over 16") given that ammunition. Of course, our experiences have been with barrels no longer than 20" though. If you intend to handload 60 grain or heavier bullets, or if you have ready access to M855 ball, you might want to consider a longer barrel.

Regarding any other features, chrome makes cleaning easier. The AR is decidedly one of the most under-maintainable platforms in existence unless you're meticulous and proficient with picks and swabs. I generally recommend people stick with the mil-spec chrome-lined barrel and chamber. A chromed bolt carrier is unnecessary. In terms of magazines, the ONLY times I can remember having issues with magazines was on the firing line with the armorer's magazines - usually filthy and beat up. Stay away from the cheapo Chinese clones, stick with mil-spec or better, and MAINTAIN them. One doesn't need to spend $60 on an AR magazine to get one that works.

2. In terms of manufacturers, lots of things have changed since Colt owned this market. My Colt's always been a decent, though otherwise unremarkable shooter. Its upper and lower receivers have some slop in them as did most of the rifles I carried in the Army. I do like my RRA Entry Tactical, in particular the trigger, but it's a bit annoying at times having to reach for a punch set to disassemble it - it's quite the opposite of the Colt. My Bushmaster and DPMS-owning friends seem to end up doing trigger work, but I don't think there's much difference afterward. We did have some issues with some of the springs in the Bushmaster lowers, but that doesn't seem to have endured in the newer versions we've had. It's the old "Ford-versus-Chevy."

3. My recommendation. Since you're "plinking", I'd recommend a 16" 1:8 if you can get it (1:7 if you can't), collapsible stock, with removable front and rear sights and a chrome bore and chamber. Bushmaster seems to be the most common, but DPMS and RRA are both probably also within your price range - you're probably not going to see a lot of difference. I'd definitely compare the trigger on the RRA with either of the other two if you can, but I wouldn't let it sway you to the RRA alone, as you can upgrade the parts in either of the other two.

Briman

No Mercy has really good, spot on advice.
If you want a really good out-of the box rifle, I'd go with a Rock River. RRA varminter if you want to shoot mainly bullets of 69gr or less, RRA NM if you want to shoot heavier (note these will shoot lighter bullets just as well too).

They come with the RRA NM trigger installed- the best 'stock' trigger in an AR. JP enterprises, geissele, and timney make lighter triggers, but you will have to install them yourself. The RRA NM trigger can be a real PITA to install if you upgrade later due to its oversized pins. Barrels are freefloated.

RRA puts good barrels on their rifles, you should expect them to shoot MOA or less. Shoot 4000-4500 rds out of the tub, then upgade to a Krieger, Pac-Nor, Shilen, etc and the rifle will really shine! Mine currently wears a Pac-Nor (from White Oak Armory) but is getting towards the end of its life round-count wise. I'll probably replace it with another soon or with a Krieger.

The downside.... The Heavy barreld ARs are HEAVY. There's a reason why I throw my NM rifle on a cart at the range and tow it up to the line.

emtrescue6

I have 2 "black rifles" a Rock River and a Bushmaster...I bought the Bushmaster first and one thing after another was bad on it (I bought it new). After replacing the barrel (with a 1:8 Pac-Nor) and the upper and having trigger work done it finally shoots ok....just ok...even after 2 dozen different load variations I recently bought a Rock River...love it, drops ragged 1 hole groups @ 200 with just about any 45-60g bullet I feed it. Other than a minor trigger adjustment, the rifle has been a dream come true and in the long run it was less $ than I invested in the Bushmaster...so if I had it to do over, I'd go Rock River fro the get go.

That being said I also have 2 Mini-14's that out-shoot the Bushmaster a half the price...LOL