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Good Elk/Moose Gun

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Good Elk/Moose Gun

Old 04-02-2008, 05:50 PM
  #21  
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Default RE: Good Elk/Moose Gun

PS- relaly he should shoot way more with a .22lr or something light that wont make him flinch......i mean isnt that what were referring to when we say kick/scared? nowdays I know a gun will kick and kick hard, but I dont flinch because if it, I pull the trigger and wait for the kick, when I was young I wasnt able to do this, but now I know how to control my body and ive ye to find my upper end of tolerance/shooting, hopefully that .458lott wont be too much.


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Old 04-02-2008, 05:59 PM
  #22  
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Default RE: Good Elk/Moose Gun


To do A., what he needs to do is start out with a stiff recoiler like a .375 H&H. Learn to shoot it. Eldeguello doesn't the 375 H&H ment for like elphants and stuff like that and plus it will nock him on his ass everytime he shoots it so yah the 375 H&H is to much gun for moose and elk
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Old 04-02-2008, 10:53 PM
  #23  
 
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Default RE: Good Elk/Moose Gun

ORIGINAL: salukipv1

well if he's that recoil shy, I think big and fast are out of the decision making category. So big and slow is the only option IMO for elk/moose.

If a .30-06 is too big.....I'd lean towards the .338 federal, or .308.


Bigger bullets produce more recoil, and if they're going slow they won't do worth a darn at even moderately long distances. I think everyone else is right in recommending a cartridge that is moderately fast shooting moderately heavy bullets, like the 7mm-08.

For example, a 338 Federal shooting a 210 gr bullet at 2630fps has 21.9 ft lbs. of recoil and a.308 Win shooting a 180 gr bullet at 2610 fps has 17.5 ft lbs. of recoil, while a 7mm-08 shooting 140 gr bullets at 2850 fps only has 12.6 ft lbs. of recoil and a 6.5X284 shooting 140 gr bullets at 2920 fps only has 14.7 ft lbs of energy.

So I'm going to have to disagree that "big and slow" is the only way to go for elk and moose when someone is recoil shy. I wouldn't say it's the way to go at all. Especially when someone is wanting to shooting even moderately longer distances.
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Old 04-03-2008, 07:12 AM
  #24  
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Default RE: Good Elk/Moose Gun

I honestly have to agree with bigbulls. If your friend can't handle the recoil from that 300WSM with all that recoil reducing gear on it, it would also be true that he couldn't even handle the recoil from a standard 30-06. Which I would consider as a minimum for moose. Yes, they can be taken with lesser cartridges like the 7-08, but from what I can assume, your 'friend' doesn't have the shooting/hunting experience to place one of these smaller bullets where it needs to be at the ranges you stated.
Eliminating recoil shyness and flinching can only be accomplished by a lot of practice and mental and physical control.
Also, IMO, all the game animals deserve our respect and need to be taken cleanly and dispatched quickly. This can only be done with a properly placed bullet with sufficient energy. Until your friend can do this, he better stick with shooting paper or deer with his 25WSSM.
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Old 04-03-2008, 08:46 AM
  #25  
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Default RE: Good Elk/Moose Gun




[/quote]

Bigger bullets produce more recoil, and if they're going slow they won't do worth a darn at even moderately long distances. I think everyone else is right in recommending a cartridge that is moderately fast shooting moderately heavy bullets, like the 7mm-08.


So I'm going to have to disagree that "big and slow" is the only way to go for elk and moose when someone is recoil shy. I wouldn't say it's the way to go at all. Especially when someone is wanting to shooting even moderately longer distances.
[/quote]


Somebody forgot to tell the bufalo this after they were nearly made extinct by the 45/70...
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Old 04-03-2008, 03:59 PM
  #26  
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Default RE: Good Elk/Moose Gun

ORIGINAL: Doe Dumper
Bigger bullets produce more recoil, and if they're going slow they won't do worth a darn at even moderately long distances. I think everyone else is right in recommending a cartridge that is moderately fast shooting moderately heavy bullets, like the 7mm-08.


So I'm going to have to disagree that "big and slow" is the only way to go for elk and moose when someone is recoil shy. I wouldn't say it's the way to go at all. Especially when someone is wanting to shooting even moderately longer distances.
[/quote]


Somebody forgot to tell the bufalo this after they were nearly made extinct by the 45/70... (I agree!)
[/quote]

Yeah, that doesnt really hold water. a lighter bullet will never retain as much energy as a heavier bullet. It's just physics. Let me put it this way. If you take a stone that weighs a pound and you throw it at a plate glass window it's going to go through it. If you take a pound of sand and you throw it at a plate glass window its going to , well just hit the window andbounce off. Mass X velocity equals energy.

Put another way what weighs more, five pounds of feathers or five pounds of bricks? Right they both weigh the same. Now, Which would you rather get hit in the head with?

There are trade offs of course, but generally speaking a heavier bullet is going to retain energy better than a lighter bullet. Of course that depends on the velocity with which it hits its intended target. Throw in there trajectory, wind drift etc and several hundred yards opens a pretty big window for mistakes. I won't go in to the particulars as you can look them up in anyreloading manual, but several feet can be the drift of lighter bullets in some of these marginal rounds mentioned here. Suffice to say that any well placed shot, at acceptable distances will kill almost any animal. Wamogo Bell killed many elephants with the 7X57 Mauser. That doesnt mean we should use it for Elk, just means it is capable in the right hunters hands that practices patience. o kill it but let it travel great distances andpossibly never be recovered. Many Guides and outfitters practice the "if you made it bleed we have filled our contract".

I would say at the distances you are espousing, Elk and moose should be hunted with a minimum 30-06 or larger. Yes a 308 will work but it can't get the heavier 165 to 180 grain bullets moving as fast as a 30-06. Get a heavy for caliber rifle (8-9 pounds with scope), that will soften the blow, Get it magnaported as that will help also, and just shoot the damn thing to the point where one gets comfortable wth it. What I tell shooters that I am teaching is The gun is loud, and it gives you a good push, but if you hold it correctly it will never hurt you, and you have to accept that. The hurting side of the gun is the other end. Don't be afraid of it and practice and you will overcome it. Sometimes a day at the range with an even larger caliber gun will give one the confidence necessary when they shoot the gun they will use.
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Old 04-03-2008, 04:11 PM
  #27  
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Default RE: Good Elk/Moose Gun

7mm-08



)
150
SP
2650
2440
2230
2040
1860
1690
2340
1980
1660
1390
1150
950
+2.2
-9.2
-26.7
-54.3

30-06




(S)
165
BTSP
2800
2591
2392
2202
2020
1848
2873
2460
2097
1777
1495
1252
+1.8
-8.0
-23.3
-47.0

The 3006 with 15 grains more bullet weight retains over 300 pounds more energy at 500 yards. Critical at that distance. 1500 pound feet is recommended for elk and moose.

Additionally if I were going through the bother and expense of an Elk or Moose hunt, I would certainly do everything in my power to make sure that when the moment of truth came, I had enough gun and got the job done right off. No wounded animals, no chasing them over hill and dale, and no embarrassment of a wounded animal.
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Old 04-03-2008, 04:12 PM
  #28  
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Default RE: Good Elk/Moose Gun

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ballistics/
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Old 04-03-2008, 08:09 PM
  #29  
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Default RE: Good Elk/Moose Gun

Tell your friend to stop being a *****... And if he is going to hunt big game then step up to the plate.
I wouldn't go after moose without nothing smaller than a .30 cal. magnum or larger.. You owe it to the moose..
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Old 04-03-2008, 09:02 PM
  #30  
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Default RE: Good Elk/Moose Gun

Felt recoil can be tamed by a well fitted stock, among other things. And then shooting posture and technique is also key. Without those 2 basic things you can end up shooting uncomfortably with even moderate kicking loads.

A 30/06 in a well fitted 9.5 lb rifle with a good recoil pad should be not only ample gun (with the right bullet and load) but should also be pretty darn comfortable with proper technique and practice.

Or, how about a 6.5 X 55 with the Oryx bullet? That cartridge/bullet load may well be the ticket for the bump shy crowd.
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