RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

MA Jay - before the compound bow how many people bowhunted ?

Its a known fact hunter numbers are going down, isn't it ? Yet bowhunting numbers climbed bigtime in the past 2 decades. Why ?

Hint - it wasn't them using recurves that did it. It was the ease of use the compound bow afforded people. With the compound camne hundreds of thousands of bowhunters. If it went away it makes sense to believe the sheer numbers would too.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

This is what I'm using next season:



Now if I can only figure out how to get in my treestand with it.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

ma jay that was very well put. good post.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

I thought of something the other day. A xbow is not like a compound in another area. A compound can't accidentally go off. It can go off when you don't want it to but it's during the act of firing it. A xbow like a gun lays around loaded. You can't lower a compound down from a tree loaded but you can a xbow. It is an area that makes it drastically different from a compound.

A guy 2 years ago shot his foot lowering his xbow down from a tree.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

FWIW, I have no problem with the different manners people choose to humanely harvest prey. I see crossbows more like guns than bows in the sense that they store and release energy to move a projectile towards a desired target. You can stabilize them by resting them on something to attain a more accurate shot. The stored energy is at ready and rest for as long as you want with no physical effort until the moment you move the only part of your body, a finger, to release it. With a bow, you must create the stored energy and hold it steady without the aid of resting it on something and do it with a deer in front of you. Takes a little bit of body involvement besides just a finger. Even with high let-offs, you can only hold it so long and hold it too long the less acurate you will end up being. That all said, I have no problem with crossbows no more than trad gear. I would like to have the time to shoot trad but I have a job and family and don't feel I have the time needed to get good enough to feel like I could humanely harvest an animal. In no way do I think trad shooters are better archers than me. I think most of us feel we could be proficient with trad gear given the time. I also know at the public hunting qualifying shoot I went to, the trad shooters got to shoot 5 yards closer than the compound shooters. Not trying to slam anyone. Everyones got their own preferences. It does take skill to shoot a compound and harvest animals with one. Can it be done by more people with some profiency as opposed to trad gear? I would guess most likely as in todays world we all have things pulling our time and they should be able to become adequately proficient with a compound in less time. But I know a lot of compound shooters who aren't amazingly great with a bow just because it is a compound. But rather than look at compound shooters with disdain or with an attitude that someone who shoots trad is superior, I see compounds as a way to include and bring more people to archery as well as have more animals humanely harvested.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

aeroslinger, great post.

I once attended a "qualifying" match/event to be eligible to assist in herd-thinning taking place at a local metropark. It was for archers only.

I hate to even post this, but I was appalled at the low level of proficiency seen by the dozens and dozens of archers that showed up to qualify at what I thought was a test that was waaaay too easy to prove much of anything.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

If you want to be amazed, simply work in an archery shop the month before the season opens. It gets down right humorous to see what walks through the door.

--Bob

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

You just made an excellent argument for why crossbows should be allowed. Why do you want to take that time in the field away from anyone over an equipment choice. Afterall the bow is just the weapon it's really about the hunt so why do care what kind of equipment they are using?:eek:[:-];)

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

What if all these incompetant bowhunters switched to crossbows and it allowed them to shoot much more accurately at 20-25 yards. Would that be a good thing ? Or are we, as bowhutners, comfortable with many in our ranks being terrible shots ?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Data,

The fact is as it has always been a slob is a slob at it has nothing to do with one's equipment choice. There are some great crossbow hunters and some SLOB trad and compound hunters. It goes both ways has has nothing to do with equipment.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Silent, I don't want to take anything away from anyone. Right now, in 47 states, the only choice is a bow for archery season. I wouldn't argue to remove crossbow hunters from archery season if the states I hunt suddenly changed their minds and made it legal for them.

It is true that slob hunters exist and hunt each fall, just as there are guys who are poor shots with bows. What I don't advocate for is if someone is not a decent shot with a bow allowing them to pick up another weapon to hunt with. I would feel the same exact way if someone came up to me and said that they don't shoot muzzleloaders well, the whole measuring powder correctly, the tamping and all that is hard to get right each time, making them erratic shots ... so shouldn't we just let them use rifles and shotguns??? I'd say HELL NO to them to.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Using that logic, dynamite, spears, poison tipped arrows, etc. should be legal equipment for those who want to use them.[:'(]

Deer seasons, game laws, and legal hunting equipment is part of the hunting process. Hunters need to adapt to whatever weapon is legal, the weapons should not be adapted for the hunter.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

What do you think of me putting down my longbow last fall and shooting my Dad's Q2 ? I shot it maybe 30 times and then went hunting with it.

Opinion ?

Dynamite isn't a weapon legal in any season. Spears can be used on hogs in some places ....... its possible that a movement could get started allowing it for deer but unlikely. Poison .......... look at the POD and how it was accepted/rejected.

Not great examples Cougar, you can do better.

So you agree then that the compound should have never been legalized ? That mechanical releases should never have been legalized ? That mechanical broadheads should never have been legalized ? That greater than 65% letoff should never have been legalized ?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Problem is datamax that the "worst" offenders of this were not the shooting, but the equipment, untuned, worn out, expecting new strings to be built, arrows to be made right now. Same would happen if crossbows were included, by the way, I have also seen traditional bows come in a week before the season asking for new strings, lessons on how to string it, miss-matched arrows.

Its not the equipment, its the attitude that you would laugh at. Many of them couldn't hit the target cause the arrows/bow were not tuned, you could see it in the arrow flight.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Bob H in NH - I don't doubt it one bit (the attitude)

I work so hard on my shooting ......... and watch other guys and I'm thinking "yall are going hunting shooting like THAT ?? "

And in Arkansas, they could just realize they SUCK at shooting and choose a crossbow to improve their shooting and they don't .

You cannot dictate ethics thats for sure. The weapon doesn't indicate the character of the guy behind it either. So anyone saying crossbows would bring in "undesireables" ?? Look at the past few posts - we already got them and they use recurves/longbows and compounds [&o]

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

If you are trying to keep them out then you are taking something away from them. You are taking away their right to choose and you are potentially taking away their right to be in the woods with a bow.

Again you are characterising crossbow hunters as those that can't hack it anywhere else. Contrary to what you might think some people may prefer to shoot a crossbow though they are thoroughly efficient at both. Also, you're aren't taking into account women and children and the partially disabled. You can say, well if a woman wants to hunt bad enough then she'll keep practicing yadda yadda but have we really done this sport a service when we turn the would be members away because they can't pull as much weight as we can? It took my wife forever to be able to pull legal hunting weight. I can guarantee you she wouldn't have stuck with it if she hadn't been able to shoot a crossbow at first. She would have gotten bored because she hadn't had a taste of it yet. You don't miss something that you have never had so walking away wouldn't a have been a big deal. So what would the sport have benefitted from turning another advocate away? The same goes for kids and those with medical problems etc. You can say well a kid that's old enough to hunt should be able to pull legal hunting weight but that's like saying that an adult should be able to dunk a basketball. We don't have the same capabilites and we don't develep at the same levels. We are human and we're all different and you can't paint everyone with one broad stroke of the brush. There will always be those that aren't as big or as strong as others are. It's life. Should those people be punished and denied the right to hunt because they are small or frail? I don't think so. Someone else mentioned how they didn't think kids should hunt until they had done X, Y, and Z and well that's rediculous. Kids progress mentally and emotionally at different levels and it's not up to us to determine whether or not someone else's child is ready to bowhunt. It's the parent and the child's decision. Many of us including myself did start hunting at a very young age and just because you didn't or you weren't ready to at a young age doesn't mean that others may not be. Again, why do we set up rules that may keep them from ever joining our sport in the first place?

We actually cougie MaJay is the one that's said it was about the hunt not about the weapon so that's where I was coming from. However, since you brought it up crossbows shot an arrow that is identical to a compound with the exception of length. They do so with a string and cams and limbs. They have nearly identical specs in terms of speed, range, and KE. Can you say that about all of those other things that you mentioned? That's an easy argument to make. Well why don't we just allow anything....blah....blah....blah. As data says the reason is the same reason we don't have seperate season for rifle, shotgun, and pistol. Because they are all guns they're just different types of guns. If your reasoning is becasue it's a primitve weapons season then compounds don't belong in it either. Because in comparison to trad equipment there is nothing primitve about a compound.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Silent wrote-
Excellent question you just posed there, "What would the sport have benefitted?" by allowing your wife to not have to practice with a bow and become profecient with it. Instead of the sport requiring your wife to work at developing the strength, accuracy and profeciency with a bow, let's allow her to use a different and easier weapon. Silent, I'm not sure how you were introduced to hunting, but for me it was a series of steps and milestones that did not allow for my instant gratification. My father did not allow me to carry a shotgun bird hunting, until I could consistently hit clay birds at the range, I couldn't hunt deer with my own rifle until I passed my hunter safety test and spent time learning the sport at his side. If you were serious about introducing your wife to the "sport" of archery, you would have taught it to her and made it fun and embraced it's challenges. If she was not physically up to the task, she could hunt in 1 of the gun seasons, or just accompanied you afield enjoying the woods in the fall. What you are saying is that if the "sport" is to hard, make it easier.... so if your son or daughter can't hit a home run in baseball or softball, do you make the teams bring the outfield fences in? Give them a "special" bat or "special" ball? If your child wants to play on the varsity football team in front of the town each weekend but does not possess the skill to make the starting team do you "make" the coach play them? Do you create an "extra" position that is unique for them? If you wanted to bowl with the best bowling teams in your area, but could hardly keep the balls in the lane .. do they allow you to put bumpers in the gutters? You know the answer is an ABSOLUTE no .... to all of them. If you want to introduce your wife to hunting, why not choose a firearm season where her learning curve would allow for her instant gratification?
Right now .. in 47 states if your wife wants to "archery" hunt, she would need a bow. Lucky for you, you live in 1 of the 3 states she doesn't .. or she may have walked away from the sport because it asked to much.

My opinion is that you didn't give yourself near enough credit there Data ... you claim the compound is so easy to shoot .. and even that with 30 shots you can become profecient with one. What about this-
There is why you could pick up your Dad's bow, you practice. From your own words, you practice a lot. People who don't practice as much as you do shooting bows could not pick up a bow for the first time and do what you do, because you have spent time learning and developing the skills to become an archer. There may be 1 out of every 100 guys who can pick up a bow for the 1st time and shoot well .. but the other 99 guys will have to do exactly what you do .. and that is PRACTICE and LEARN.

It is not a bad thing to have a sport that expects effort on the part of it's participants. No one here can pick up a golf club and hit a hole in one every time or even par a hole, that takes effort and practice. Want to finish a marathon .. go practice and train. Want to make the company softball team ... practice hitting and fielding, don't expect them to just let you play because you "want to".

Guys.... we're ARCHERS!!! We accept that our passion requires more effort and dedication than firearms hunting .. hell , we revel in it. It makes it more challenging and more rewarding because of it! WHY WHY WHY would we want to add an even easier and different weapon into that fold??? To make more archers? NO, because we don't think of crossbow hunters as archers. To allow more people to hunt?? We have told you a hundred times we think crossbow hunters should be able to hunt with them during their own or a firearm season.. so tell them to please come and hunt!

LOOK WHERE YOU ARE POSTING... the BOWHUNTING section of this site!!! For 47 states .. that means guys like me who only use bows. What were you expecting? You could have recieved a lot of support in a crossbow section .. oh, they don't have one of those....

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WILL WHOEVER MODERATES THIS FORUM PLEASE CLOSE THIS d%$^ THREAD. HAVE MERCY ON ALL OF US FOR THIS B-S-ING SPAT TO GO FOR 34 PAGES AND COUNTING. MY EMAIL HAS BLOWN A INCOMING MAIL FUSE WITH REPLY'S TO THIS THREAD

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Isn't that exactly what compounds do ? They allow people who don't want to spend the time and effort shooting recurves to take an easier route.

3 things allowed me to do this.

The #1 thing is that compounds are easy to shoot
#2 - Dad has this bow very well tuned
#3 - I've shot compounds in the past - having that is an advantage

But still I've seen most guys pick up a compound and be hitting good groups in no time. Literally after 10 shots being ready shooting good enough to go hunting if they wanted to. Now, underhunting CONDITIONS could they ? I dunno - but thats HUNTING experience and not just plain how good a person can shoot - big difference.

Recurve and longbows hunters allowed your bow of choice in 40 years ago. Based on that quote you wish they hadn't huh ?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Hint - turn of your email notification on a thread.

Exaclty. In Arkansas and Ohio and in literally ever state with handicap permits crossbows are legal bowhunting archery weapons. The people that choose to use them SHOULD be able to post on a BOWHUNTING Forum.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

WHY WHY WHY hasn't anybody responded to my point that if the bow hunters in the past thought like this then you would not be shooting your easier and different weapon aka compound bow?

Will someone please tell me the difference in thinking from then to now? Put yourself back 40 years ago and think about how radical a compound bow must have been to most bow hunters when all they had were long bows and recurves. Yet it was allowed into the fold wasn't it?

And while we are at it can someone please tell me how a person in a tree with a crossbow two counties over effects you in your tree?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

BigJ12 - recurve/longbow shooters back then fought compound because they were easier to use. They'd bring in more hunters. they were a short cut to the hard work people had to dedicate into mastering a recurve/longbow. They were afraid seasons would be cut short, bag limits reduced. They were afraid that the face of bowhunting would change and what IS archery would be lost. They feared ............... what compounders are fearing now.

Ironic, isn't it ?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Crossbows are allowed in Texas during gun season, which is where they belong. I would imagine a lot of us could get proficient with a sling and a rock if we had a lot of time on our hands. And I'm sure people could use old guns made before they put rifleing in the barrels. Equipment changes and improves. Guns are different than bows. Crossbows are different than bows. Crossbows are different than guns but closer in their manner of use.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

That is exactly right. It's funny how people are so against a crossbow but it was ok for the compound bow to infultrate the long bow and recurve archery ranks.

People lets call it like it is, If you really look at it, compound bows should not belong in archery either because they are far different than the long or recurve bow by a mile.

In fact the long bow, recurve and (gasp) crossbow have been around longer than the compound bow has.

Who's the "new" kid on the block?

But NOW it's ok to put your foot down and say "no more" now that you are in the ranks of "archery equipment" when you probably shouldn't have in the first place?

Talk about hypocrisy.

Hey I have a great idea...lets make two different seasons one for traditional bow hunters (long bow and recurves) and one for non traditional bow hunters (compounds and crossbows) If you want separate seasons this makes the most sense.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Using one killed me!!!!!!!!!!





























































I got better.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

The only thing the crossbow has in common with a FIREARM that a compound bow does not is that it's held by a stock and can remain cocked indefinitely. Other than that, both the crossbow and compound share the exact same components ie: limbs, cables, cams, sights, strings, arrows/bolts. They both propel the arrow/bolt the same way by energy stored in the limbs and by the use of the string and NOT by gunpowder!

How in the hell is that any way even close to a firearm???? If you ask me judging by the list above seems like the crossbow and compound bow have more in common than the firearm...but thats what I have been saying all along.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Please accurately describe the proccess involved during the shot for the compound , the crossbow , and the gun/rifle.:eek:

You'll answer your own damn question above!!!

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Did you intentionally forget to add that compounds different than recurve/longbow - vastly different ?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

OK I will.

With a firearm (and I will use a modern day firearm as an example) you insert the cartrage INTO the chamber, cock the weapon and squeeze the trigger. This causes the firing pin to puncture the primer and thus ignite the powder INSIDE the casing. This sudden pressure buildup causes the bullet to become separated from the casing while the barrel allows to bullet to travel one way and that is out of the weapon and to it's target.

With a crossbow, you pull back the string by use of either your arms or a crank and by doing that you load the LIMBS with energy. once the string has been pulled back you put a bolt/arrow ON the STRING and squeeze the trigger causing the locking mechanism to dissengage from the STRING. The energy in the LIMBS propels the bolt/arrow by use of the STRING to send the arrow/bolt to it's target.

With a compound bow you first put an arrow on the STRING then pull the string back with your arm by use of a hand held trigger mechanism and by doing that you load the LIMBS with energy. Once the string has been pulled back you squeeze the trigger causing the locking mechanism to dissengage from the STRING. The energy in the LIMBS propels the arrow by use of the STRING to send the arrow to it's target.

And your point is???:eek:

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

:eek:

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Yes. They are also different than rocks, sticks, clubs, crude traps, cliffs, and other primitive weapons. I'm sure Cro Magnam could throw a mean stone and fell many a creature with his club. I bow to him. Obviously this means he was a much better hunter and much more in tune with the world than us inferiors who don't ever practice and only use compounds because we aren't as cool and adept. Anybody, even us lowly compounders, can 1) rest it on something 2) sight something in and keep it in the sight as long as we wish with almost no physical effort 3) use and move only a finger to release a projectile......Could we be talking about a gun? How about a crossbow? Think you could with a compound?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

How about this revelation ........

A crossbow shooter likely can shoot a compound quite well after 30 minutes of shooting but not a recurve.
A compound shooter likely can shoot a crossbow quite well after 30 minutes of shooting but not a recurve.

A recurve shooter ? They can likely shoot a crossbow AND a compound with 30 minutes practice each.



Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm???????? huh ?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Unlike bows, crossbows have a disadvantage since they're not six shooters.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

:D

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

This whole thread is making me mental!

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

[:-]
I think shooting trad would be fun and challenging and I'm sure I, like most others on here, could get quite good at it. No big deal. Anybody putting the time in can get good at throwing rocks. I just wouldn't ever kid myself into thinking I was some archery god and superior to anybody who didn't do just as I did. I also know a crossbow is more like a gun. Apparently, alot of other people think so, also, since the LAW allows them during gun season. Oh, wait, their idiots too. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Wanna bet? I'd bet a week's check I can hit the 10 ring from 20 yards with a crossbow within 5 minutes.

Wanna bet again? Perhaps he might put a few shots into the target, but unless he is the Michael Jordan of archery, its going to take much longer than that to get him ready for deer season.

I have not shot a recurve bow since 1978, but I bet I can hit the kill zone of a deer size target with a recurve more times than the guy who shot the crossbow, who is now trying the compound bow, within that 30 minute time frame.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Bowfanatic,

I believe I answered your question. If you are asking about what the hunter is doing at the moment of the shot then be more specific. I will try to answer what you are getting at and that is (I think) that only one of the three have to be drawn at the moment or slightly before the moment of the shot.

I agree that the compound is the only one that needs to be drawn at the moment of the shot but that in it's self does not mean a crossbow is MORE like a firearm and less like a bow...do you understand what I'm trying to say? I think this is where we differ in our thoughts. My feeling is just because a crossbow doesn't have to be drawn at the moment of the shot dosen't mean it's still not a bow.

Below is the Webster's New World Dictionary Modern Desk Edition's exact definition of a bow as it pertains to the shooting kind.

Bow: a flexible curved strip of wood with a cord connecting the ends for shooting arrows.

Nowhere does it say that it must be drawn at the time of the shot. In fact if you notice it says WOOD and not fiberglass or carbon or any other type of material other than wood. So according to the dictonary unless your compound bow is made of wood it's not a bow at all.

My point is you can add all you want to the definition to make it fit your criteria of what you think a bow should be, but the bottom line is, the fact that you have to draw a compound back at the time of the shot and you don't with a crossbow does not make the crossbow any less a bow.

As I see it, it's as much a bow as the compound is and that's NOT AT ALL according to the dictionary.

Feel free to make up what you want, I will stick with the facts.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

You better re-think your facts, here in Illinois it's during BOW season and the kills count as ARCHERY kills.

Please tell me how a crossbow is more like a gun than a bow.