RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

See we can agree on something:D

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Keep saying that cat is a dog folks ............ but it will never be a dog.

A crossbow CANNOT go from being a legal bow and arrow in Arkasnas and cross the border into Kansas and become a NOT bow and arrow based soley on state laws.

Its physically impossible

The crossbow IS a bow - and it always has been and always will be.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

To read next thread.....

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

The state is NOT saying the .22 is not a firearm. It is not saying the .22 is not a pistol. The state is saying that a .22 is not legal.

Just like a crossbow.

The state defines what is legal.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Unless its Arkansas that has it wrong - right, data?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

I agree....even though the state says it's illegal it's still a fiream. That is what I have been saying all along. Even though the state says it's illegal it's still a bow. The state cannot change the fact that a crossbow is a bow.

I agree when you say a state defines what is legal, but only when it applies to USE IN THEIR STATE but it cannot say what an object is. In this case it can't say a .22 pistol is not a firearm just like it can't say a crossbow is not a bow, but it can make both of them illegal to use in their state.

Do you understand now?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Every weapon in the world that has two working limbs, and used those limbs and the stored energy in them via a string to cast an arrow is a bow. Might be a freaked out bow ..... but that IS the definition of a bow, like it or not.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

I totally understand you, BigJ.

You're the one pushing for legal definition, remember?

But now we agree that the STATE will determine whether or not a crossbow should be allowed in bow season.

My state, NY, has deemed it inappropriate for bow season.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Not according to NY state:)

Seems they have a problem with that whole "locked at full draw" thing.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

OK... enough is enough. This thread should have died long ago. We had more content in the NOTHING thread that was deleted because ..... well,.... it was about "NOTHING". When we got up to 1800 replies or so someone had a tizzy and brought out their CTRL-ALT-DELETE button. I wish this one would at least get locked.[&:]

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

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RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Yes but I was NOT pushing for the states legal definition rather I was pushing for the ACTUAL definition. To be honest, I don't care what the states think is or is not a bow. It dosen't matter what they think when it comes to "is a crossbow actually a bow or not". When it DOES matter is when the states vote on whether you are allowed to use that weapon (any weapon) or not. That however still does not CHANGE what that weapon (or any weapon) is, it just makes it illegal, thats all.

As of now most won't allow you to use them with the exception of the handicapped, they are allowed to. Some are allowed in the archery season, like here in Illinois and some are allowed in the gun season. It does not make either one right or wrong, just that particular states decision, for whatever reason.

I do believe a crossbow is a form of a bow and therefore belongs in bow season. Now that being said, I also understand (what I believe to be at least) everyone's main problem with them, and that is you don't have to draw in the presence of the deer and you don't have to worry about an anchor point, bow torque etc....and because it has a stock and you can rest it on something, assuming a rest is available.

I understand these points and they make me think as well. I guess (to me at least) they are not enough to overcome the obvious similarities that both share. To me there are so many similarities ie: limbs, cams, cables, string, projectile, type of energy, how said energy is stored, sights, trigger releases, arrow rests, attached quivers and the list goes on and on. It's hard not to consider them bows.

Then I factor in the fact the the actual hunt is the same and nothing changes in the set up or stalk or stand selection or anything for that matter. I believe if you saw a person in the woods without a weapon, and this person was just scouting for a place to put his tree stand or ground blind. You could not tell by the location of his stand if he was a compound bow hunter or a crossbow hunter. But if he was a rifle, slug gun or muzzle loader hunter you could tell, because there would not be that attention to the small details that would enable him to get close enough for a clean kill. It would not matter because lets face it you don't HAVE to be that close to get a clean kill shot with a rifle, slug gun or muzzle loader.

I think if there was ever a point I was trying to make that everyone here can understand, it's that one.

Now I'm not going to muddy up this post by listing all the differences between a compound bow and a long bow. I just want to make the point that pretty much the only thing that the two have in common that a crossbow does not, is they are both hand held and hand drawn. Other than that they are day and night. I bring this up because at one point in our history this "new and different" bow was trying to inch it's way into bow hunting and was eventually accepted. By doing this the whole face of bow hunting was changed. Some say for the worse and some say for the better but all agree it was changed. I know you don't see the differences to be that big now, but you are used to compounds. Imagine how strange and different they must have looked back then? Hell look at some pictures of the first compound bows, they still look strange:D

But, the bowhunting community opened their collective arms to them and here we are today. Where would we be if they didn't?

I only make this comparison between the long bow and compound bow to get some of you to think "outside" the box if only for a second or two. I am not basing my argument on it (I left that for the similarities between the crossbow and the compound bow) because it IS so selective. I just wanted to give you something else that you can add to the whole thought process.


Please try to see it as I do. After factoring in all of the similarities in the one case and the differences in the other case. I can't help but deduct that a crossbow is more bow like than anything else.

Then add in the whole dictionary definition thing on top of all that. Is it really that far of a stretch.....is it?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Instead of trying to kill it why don't you add your perspective to it?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

A crossbow CANNOT go from being a legal bow and arrow in Arkasnas and cross the border into Kansas and become a NOT bow and arrow based soley on state laws.

I sure dout ARKASNAS sould lead the way for the reast of the states [&o] I beleave this would be a sad day [:o] This is a good state to buy srate lumber in :D


Do you know why you DO NOT look for a virgin wife in ARKASNAS? If she is not good enough for her brother,she is not good enough for you.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Holy Crap! This is still going![&:]

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Holy Crap! This is still going![&:]

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

OK, I could give a hoot less about what someone hunts with. I prefer to use my compound right now, I started with a recurve 35 years ago and took several deer with it. I have a recurve I'm practicing up with to use again. What someone else uses to hunt isn't going to make or break my hunt. I hunt for me and no one else. I don't blame my failures on anyone else. I bow hunt during muzzleloader and gun seasons. It's a personal thing. If someone wants to use a Xbow that's fine. Me, I don't like them....but that's me. I don't chose this weapon or that one to make someone else happy. If I fail it's not someone elses fault.... it's my own. If someone wants to get it legalized he'll have to fight to change the laws. Me, I'm going hunting.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

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RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

I was at the new Gander Mountain store that opened up 45 miles from me today. While looking at bows there, I noticed a couple young men in their early twenties picking up and looking over what few crossbows they had. That reminded me of when I worked in Ohio one summer a few years ago. My boss(about the age of 32) was told by some of my co-workers that if he wanted to deer hunt he should buy a crossbow. He asked them why a crossbow and their answer was because its easy to shoot and hunt with a crossbow. Both of those co-workers were young and strong and admitted they neither had the patience nor desire to learn to shoot a recurve or compound.

That right there was enough to forever turn me against crossbows during archery season except for the physically unfit.

By the way........I locked the other thread started by Data as it was too similiar to this thread.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Thanks for you input.

You know for the longest time I thought just like you...and for the most part still do, because when it comes right down to it, we all hunt for ourselevs, our reasons, our enjoyment.

Then came this thread asking me if I could find a negative to crossbows? Well I can't. Oh, I can speculate about if there inclusion would hurt deer herds in states that have low numbers. And I can speculate about all the "slob" hunters that would be picking up crossbows and entering the woods. But without actually trying them in the archery season in a particular state, it's just that, speculation. There are just too many variables to contend with that can change the amount and type of crossbows hunters and thus their impact on the herds and sport of archery from state to state.

So I asked myself, "What would a rational thinking person do to find out?" My answer, look at the states that do allow crossbows in their archery season and see if any of the fears I have speculated could be found and thus a negative. So I did and I found none. Does this tell me that all of the states will end up the same way? No, BUT it is the best case study to be had and certianly should not be dismissed, because after all what else do we have becides speculation? Again, when it comes to the effect crossbows might have on an individual state, we can run all the numbers and factor all of the percentages we want but in the end it's still speculation.

So I have come to the conclusion that allowing crossbows into the states archery seasons would probably not hurt that state one bit. I say this based on the only hard evidence I could find. Furthermore it would be irresponsible of me to come to a conclusion based on speculation, percentages and numbers when there is a better case study to be had. In the absence of a better case study and all you have is speculation, percentages and numbers then you have to go with that. I'm not saying to ignore them because some things can be learned, but unfortunately it's not very reliable.

That being said, I can say with reasonable amount of confidence, there is no negatives to crossbows, as far as their effect on a state and it's archery season. If someone has hard evidence to prove otherwise I will entertain it.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

You know, I'm glad you said that, it reminded me of a question.

Why is it that every sporting goods store that carries both archery equipment and firearms puts their crossbows in the archery department. I mean, if you guys are right and a crossbow is more like a gun than a bow, why aren't they in the gun department?

Can you imagine the constant questions the guys in the gun departments must get all the time from guys asking to see the latest crossbows.....

" Excuse me sir, I would like to see a crossbow? " ......."Uh I'm sorry but you will have to go to the archery department for that."...... "Why?"..... "Well because it's not a gun it's a bow, that's why we carry them in the archery department and not the gun department"......

Oh the confusion that must be going on day in and day out must be madding.:eek:

The way you guys think, there is only three or four of us who believe a crossbow is archery equipment. If that's the case then I'm sure the rest of the public knows it's not and certainly the shops who sell them must KNOW their not as well, yet they are sold in the archery departments.....huh? Maybe it's just a big conspiracy:eek:......Are you guys SURE there is only a handfull of us crazies out there that think crossbows are archery equiment?

Another funny thing happened, When I looked up crossbows on Encyclopedia.com it said......"see bow and arrow" Strange huh?

So lets see here (thinking to myself) A dictionary defines it as a form of a bow, Encyclopedia.com has them under bow and arrow and stores sell them in the archery department.....go figure:eek:

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

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RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

I still do think like me.[8D] Again, the biggest negative is they're just too dang noisy. I believe like many others that probably 95 percent of the people that will pick them up do it out of laziness. That is a big negative in any state. I know that's not what you wanted to hear, but that's it. Everyone wants the quick fix. They want to become instant successes. They have the wrong ideas about what it takes to be successful with one. For the most part they're diehard trigger pullers/gun hunters. The X Bow is as close as they can get to using a gun and get in on the extended hunting season. If they told everyone you have to pick one weapon and that's it. Most of the Xbow shooters would be back to guns immediately. Most of us diehard archers would just carry on.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Because they been trying to force feed us for 10 years that it's a real bow. NOT!!!

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

I've stayed away from this thread for 115 pages but here is my opinion for what it's worth. It promotes the desire not to hone your bowhunting skills because I beleive it makes the shooter beleive he has more than a bow in his hands.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

You know I was kidding about the whole conspiracy thing but apparently you have actually bought in to it! Your saying ALL of the sporting good stores across the country are force feeding crossbows on weary Americans by putting them in the archery department? you ACTUALLY believe that?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

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RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

While I agree with that, it's only to a certin extent. The problem with that thought process is you are blaming the weapon for the crime and not the user. Hey I am not going to sit here and say you won't get some slob hunter buying a crossbow thinking it's the "end all" in hunting bows and start taking ridiculous shots, you probably will. The problem is it also happens with bow hunters now as well as gun hunters.

Again I will revert back to the only reliable case study we have and that is the states that do allow crossbows in archery season. Has this fear come to reality in those states?

No it hasn't.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Because God knows it was the crossbows fault that those kids thought that way right?

Not how they were raised or taught to hunt huh, just the crossbows fault. And you know what else? Why should you or anyone else care if they want to make their hunt easier? Are you telling me YOU and EVERYBODY else who opposes crossbows are hunting with the hardest to shoot and longest to learn bow equipment out there? So everybody here MAKES there own longbows, strings, arrows, fletchings, etc....

Believe me, it's ok for you to think they should take the time to learn how to use a hand held bow, I think so too. But don't condemn them for not wanting to, because then 99% of us would have to condemn ourselves wouldn't we?

Each one of us makes a CHOICE of what we want to hunt with, for whatever reasons. Some are easier than others to learn and become proficient with. Choosing the harder one DOES NOT make the easier one bad or evil..........just easier.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Again, I know you believe that, and most of John Q Public might even buy it. But I am not a lemming and I will not follow and believe what everyone else tells me is the truth without at least looking in to it. A statement like that portrays a very dim light for 95% of all crossbow hunters and I don't for one second believe that.

So I look to the states that do allow them because they are the best case study we have and I can see no sign of all these "lazy" hunters you are talking about. In those states the crossbow hunters and hand bow hunters hunt side by side with no ill effects.

So unless you have some proof that I don't know about, I will have to use my own head on this one and not follow along with the mob.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

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