RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

First things first. If you can group like that at 30 yards with your recurve my hats off to you! I could however take your recurve and shoot groups at 20 yards which is my maximum traditional shooting distance , given enough time to get the feel for your bow.

Second. You act like anyone who picks up a compound can stack arrows in 10 minutes. Thats funny because even with todays super awesome compound technology I see guys at the range who cant hit a pie plate consistantly at 20yds! And they've been shooting for years!
But I guess since you can do it everyone can. Right?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

BOWFANATIC - you can shoot farther with your compound ? How is that ?

Oh yeah, thats right - because its FRICKIN EASIER AND MORE ACCURATE

:D

Actually, I can shoot that good. I mean, duh, you draw, put the pin on the target, squeeze the trigger ......... not really a whole lot to it, is there ?

My father in law, never shot a bow, shot as well as I did. My co-worker, the same. Compound are simple to shoot, they really are. Gee, not unlike a crossbow

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Watch it now..........:D

I read in Chuck's book that he shot traditional and compound equally well. Never though of one being harder than the other... I found that interesting as most would say the opposite.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

you watch it buddy ! I've got a mini Chuck shrine and I buy the leather bound Chuck books as they come off the press !

Chuck did say he shot recurves well - but also that he uses a compound because it gives him more advantages. He also uses fingers often if not always.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Your a piece of work I'll give ya that much! A bow is as accurate as the shooter! PERIOD!!! If I made an honest effort to shoot long range with my recurve I could extend the yardage.

My hunting range is......drum roll please....20 yards![:o] I've NEVER , I'll say it again ....NEVER killed anything beyond 20 yards.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. That is , if you can agree to that?[&:]

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

no no BOWFANATIC don't you know because i can shoot 3 shots inside an inch with my rifle everyone can :eek: dosen't matter if you flinch or not;)

where the hell did i bash the handicap? they can and have been able to hunt with xbows here in pa for as long as i can remember. however when i stated what i did i ment if they are in a state that dosen't allow them to they shouldn't be allowed to just like everyone else can't. nothing their is bashing the handicap! RULES APPLY TO EVERYONE!

where did that come from?? if i have a 7mm08 pistol it will shoot the same bullet/load/ around the speed of a rifle and have as much energy as the 7mm08 rifle. so that was a pretty bad example if you ask me

well i am a fair shot with a compound and can't keep them all in the McKenzie at 40-50 yards. that is WHY i don't shoot that far. know you limits and don't complan about them. "want a good example to go with this?" i shoot a 35 reminton with open sights. at 200 yards i know i couldn't hit a milk jug 20 times in a row. i also have a scoped 243 and i could hit that milk jug as many times in a row as i wanted! dose that mean we shouldn't be allowed to use scoped rifles during rifle season because it is to easy???[&:]

i don't care what people have to say. i don't think their should be guys like me sitting up in a tree waiting for deer to come within 30 yards so i might be able to get a shot with my compound. while joe smoe sits in a tree with a scoped xbow and not have to worry about anything other then pulling the trigger once the deer is within range. however i am not agaist xbows i said it once and i'll say it again they should have their own season or be used during rifle season.

by the way i know a lot of people who are not good shots with compound bows so it isn't as easy as you may "think"

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Uh .............. no, absolutely, 100% inaccurate. Did you notice you said "honest effort" ? IN other words, you shoot your compound because its much easier to become accurate with. C'mon, you've already said it in so many words, why not just admit it ?

The compound bow for archery is like steroids for baseball players. Roger Maris and Howard Hill are rolling in their graves watching the steroid McGuires and compound shooting Chuck Adams

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

In my opinion, if what you said above was true we wouldn't be having this argument and everyone that owns or aspires to own a crossbow would have no reason to buy one. They would already own a compound, because it sooo simple.

I see posts here all the time that prove archery is not that simple. There was a thread here not so long ago that asked members to critique others archery form; Threads asking how to properly tune your bow; Threads asking how long it takes to become proficient enough with a compound or traditional bow to be able to hunt ethically; Threads that talk about how to build stamina to pull more poundage. It’s not that simple, I know from experience. I have worked to become a proficient archer, even though I was born with the ability to pull a trigger.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Its simple really.

Choice. Some people in Arkansas shoot compounds, some crossbows, some recurves and some longbows. IN Ohio its the same thing. It'll be the same in every state that continues to allow them in general archery season.

And yes, everyone I've ever had shoot my compounds could shoot them very good right off the bat.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

O.K. if you say so? I just love your "in other words".
Dont you mean in your words?

Guess you cant even do that huh?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

uh, almost got it right there.....

Crossbows = easiest
Compounds=easier than longbows
Recurves = hard

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

IL Rancher,

I know that's your opinion but I don't think you will actually see that happen. At least I haven't seen it in my area and they are legal here. I honestly can't think of one single guy that is able to hunt with a compound yet hunts with a crossbow. I know I have met a few but none that I know very well and none that come to mind right off hand.

I have a buddy that picks his bow up every year the day before bow season. He shoots a couple of shots. He is hitting where he is suppossed to. He goes to the woods and kills deer. I fuss at him about it but it's kind of pointless because he never misses and he never makes bad shots. I have videoed out of the same tree with him. He's got nerves of steel and he always makes a good shot under pressure though he doesn't shot 50 shots a year.

Do you think it should be taken from the general archery season?

I would agree they are not the same mechanically though I think that is irrelevant since they are the same from a performance standpoint. However, I also think there is as much or more difference between compounds and trad equipment as I do between compounds and crossbows.

#1 Not far from it.
#2 I couldn't agree with you more. I hate them with a writhing passion.
#3 Got to disagree with you there. When used with a proper set up they can be very effective.
#4 Agreed!
#5 Yep;)


Which many today, including myself, would call unethical.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

SA,

I can't say I know 100% of the bowhunters in this area but I do know quit a few who have flat out told me they will switch. These are not the hard core guys but the ones that go out maybe 7 times a season and who only bow hunt because it falls during the rut. I think it will be different results in different states because each state has a slightly different population deomographics. For that matter it will be different results for different areas in the state.

Around here there are lots of guys who have picked up bows in the last 5 years or so that aren't married to the idea. The only thing that would probably keep them from switching to crossbows will be the economics of shelling out the money on a new one when you can buy used bows real cheap. Now, the question remains will they continue to hunt with the crossbow down the line? That I have no idea. Given the choice of hunting with a bow and hunting with an X-bow I would choose the bow. I have shot a crossbow. Don't like them. Talk about them with local shop owner all the time. While he is not a big fan of them he does think they should be allowed into general Archery season. His opinion is about the same as mine when it comes to many of his customers switching out to them. Also you should understand that this part of the county has a very high average age and many of these gentleman are farmers who think using a bow is just to darn hard because they 1) Own a mid 80's compund or 2) shot a bow when they were a kid and quit. and 3) Don't have time to practice very often. I see these guys shoot, lets just say they aren't getting the same results as some of you folks are

As far as it getting kids into hunting. It might but will it keep them in it? I don't know. The thought of my daughter walking around with a loaded weapon that weighs more than she does is does not sound appealing to me. Maybe I will feel differently in a few years when she isn't 2 years old but I don't know. I see a lot of 10 year old girls pulling 25-30 pounds down at the range, trying to build up over the next year or two to build up strenght. And they are having a great time doing it. (their accuracy isn't the best either).

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Sorry to join the issue here so late I just joined, but the big issue that some of us bow only hunters have is. That if it is not reconized by the trophy archery hunting system that is already in place Pope and Young. Then it should not be in the same season. If it's already loaded (cocked) like a gun, and you shoulder it like a gun, and look through a scope like a gun, then it should be in the same season as a gun. That is why most of the bow only hunters don't want them in the same season. I agree that the compound is easier than my recurves and long bows, but atleast they operate on the same princiaple. There are some simularties between a crossbow and a compound, but anyone can see that the crossbow is more simular to a gun, than a bow. Heck man I think we should call them crossguns instead of crossbows:D.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

flat feet - rules change. P&Y didn't allow >65% letoff for years, do you think they should have ? They had too because they realized the ast majority of compounders were using them and they would continue to and they'd lose a great following if they didn't tweak there "rules"

P&Y is a private club, making whatever rules they want. If they made a no mechanical broadheads rules would you deduce then that mechanical broadheads should not be allowed in archery season ?

The P&Y club, while doing great things, is a selfish club that has its own intrests at heart.


BOWFANATIC - I am currently shooting a Hoyt Gamemaster recurve. Do you know why ? I love the challenge of trad shooting - no sights, no letoff, no release, no gizmos or gadgets .......... just nock, draw, focus and shoot. Its my challenge, its my choice of bows that affords me challenge yet also a resaonable shot at shooting a deer and filling a tag.

MY CHOICE. Yet is is far away from the challenge of cutting an osage stave and whittling my own self bow. I'm choosing an EASIER route becasue even though its easy in comparison, its still tough for me.

You are doing exactly the same thing. You are shooting a compound because its a challenge to you - correct ? You shoot it because you find it fun, yet challenging, but still affords you a reasonably good chance at killing a deer.

But you're far from the challenge of shooting a recurve or longbow, and farther still from self bows.

You see, you and I have challenges that we take, and we base it on many things. Time available to practice, money, goals, sheer fun in shooting the chosen weapons ....... many things. I UNDERSTAND why you shoot a compound, you probably understand why i shoot a recurve.

What seperates us is I also understand people finding the challenge of bowhunting with a crossbow challenging. Perhaps not the shooting aspect (though you full well know I believe compounds very easy) but getting within 20 yards of a deer and making the shot ? Thats a huge challenge for guys - be it shooting a crossbow, a compound or whatever their chosen weapons.


I'm not forcing you nor would I ever without proof that compounds are a negative to archey - to choose a recurve. I don't think we should force guys who want to shoot crossbows to shoot compounds or trad bows either for the same reasons.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

It's me again. I think that may be the most well written response you have stated yet. The issue of forcing people is a very good point. Right now, crossbows are not allowed in most states during archery season for healthy people. So forcing crossbows into archery season is the option some are advocating for. Crossbow use is allowed in many states, even mine here in NH. That use is limited to firearm season though, not archery season. The ability to shoot and use crossbows is available in many states right now, just not during archery season. So as hunters we have options, accept the allowed weapons in our season of choice .. fight to change the rules of what weapons are allowed in different seasons ... or wait till the appropriate season to use the legal weapon.

See, not many people here are fighting an out right ban on crossbows. We're not also telling them they must shoot bows and not crossbows. Just that archery season, as it is defined in 47 states is bow only for healthy people, and we think they got it right when they set it up that way. To many of us, having to wait till shotgun or rifle season is ok and we accept it .. we don't think that because muzzleloaders are so similar in effectiveness or range that we should allow shotgun use during muzzleloader season. No one argues that compounds and traditional bows have differences .... but crossbows differ in fundamental ways to bows, just as muzzleloaders differ from rifles and shotguns in fundamental ways .. and as such have their own followers and seasons. We could argue till we die about how technology affects things making them easier and more effective to use .. but in the end, bows are bows, muzzleloaders are muzzleloaders, rifles are rifles and shotguns are shotguns .. just like crossbows are crossbows. They are all different and unique and should be managed that way, just like they are today in almost every state.

To me fighting to let crossbows be considered bows .. is exactly the same as saying lets consolidate muzzleloaders and rifles and shotguns. You could argue on the merits of their equal ranges and effectiveness, but at the loss of their uniqueness and differences.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

No one if forcing you to use one - its simply allowing a person the option to shoot what is very much the same kind of close range bow as a compound is. Still gotta get 20 yards from the deer, still got just one shot with one arrow tipped with a broadhead. They work a bit differently, but we don't want to start with the comparisons again or we'll have to also point out how vastly different compounds are from recurves as far as machanics, shootability, accuracy, range etc etc, right ?

I keep pointing out (and ya'll keep ignoring) than never, ever has legalization of crossbows led to a negative in any archery season. Arkasnsas, Ohios, Georgia ........ no negatives. Ever. What you fear - be it more hunters, less season, less bag limits, whatever IS NOT A REALITY. It simply isn't.

With that knowledge, then what the holdup is on crossbows comes down to what you personally believe takes archery to a level that eliminates a large part of what archery IS. That is, dedication, practice, difficulty, shootability, capable range of making kills ........ whatever. And ya'll say "well, a crossbow is easier blah blah blah"

Compounds are vastly easier too.


And that is my argument. As easy as crossbows seem, so too are compounds. That is true - thats why most archers USE compounds instead of recurves/longbows - its EASIER. You want your easy - but you don't want anyone else to have easy unless its the easy you want.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Data

you are the man. I don't know anybody else that can stir up trouble (to their own satisfaction, I'm sure) for 30 pages while basically having everybody restate and restate......blah blah blah

now here I go again as well too---you got me

The issue is really much simpler than most people are making it.
Compounds are easier to become a proficient hunter with than recurves
likewise crossbows are easier still--however there are more significant differences between crossbows and any archery equipment and everybody knows it.

The issue though is the difference between banning and enforcing a restriction that is already in place.

I think that most true advocates of hunting and the outdoors would never ever want to deal a blow to the hunting community by making them take a step backwards. That is what you would do, if you would attempt to ban compounds which are now widely accepted and used throughout the country, for being too easy ( not that I think they are too easy---just making a point)
But it is true the selection that you have on weapons and the improvements is growing toward the ridiculous, so that is why I advocate the point of maintaining the current restrictions, along with allowing crossbows to continue where they are currently already accepted. likewise compounds should stay restricted in areas reserved for primitive weapons.

that is the issue: banning (which I interpret as getting rid of after being previously accepted) versus just maintaing the current restrictions in favor of using hunting skill (however easy those skills are being currently acheived) over technology

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

All i want to know is what about spears? What about slingshots? Id like to use a potato gun to hunt squirrel. Im going to use a catapult next year i think. Mount it on a swivel in the back fo my truck and im going to launch bricks out of it at deer and throw corn all around my truck. Truck will be painted camo and asat camo for myself will be purchased.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

You are right, many archers want "easier" and because of this shoot the latest and greatest. The reason we archers feel so strongly about crosbows is the radical difference between adding a more advanced stabilizer, limb saver or fiber optic sight pin and allowing a whole new type of weapon. Easier may mean a cam or even a release when comparing a recurve to a compound .. but it surely doesn't mean a cocked and loaded shoulder fired weapon that allows for the use of magnified rifle type scopes. Some ask "where" is the line we stop at .. well the line I and many like me drew is when you take a bow, mount it on a stock and add a retained stand alone trigger mechanism and make a totally differnet weapon called a crossbow. When it's not a bow anymore, but a totally different weapon ... you've left archery and entered something else. Doesn't make it bad, and the effective ranges are similar if not identical, but they are different. Just as the well established precedent of ML and FireArm seasons are different, so are bows and crossbows.

Data .. a crossbow and a compound bow are different. You can argue till you're blue in the face that compunds are different from traditionals, which nobody here denies. Even easier to shoot, but that does not validate the argument that compunds and crossbows are so similar that we should all universally adopt crossbows into the accepted definition of archery. Even when OH allowed Crossbows during archery season, they still defined them as different weapons .. Longbows and Crossbows and the Longbows those being traditional and conventional have their own requirements and rules, and the Crossbow their own rules as well. When Arkansas allowed the use of Crossbows during archery season they still define the bows (Long, recurve and compund) and crossbows as different.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

hillbillyhunter1 - its a rare talent :D

Seriously though, the argument against crossbows is highly flawed. I'm simply point it out and everyone is scrambling trying to find a chink in it.

Theres not.

More significant ? Both (compounds and crossbos) have triggers, both use sights, both have high letoffs, both are vastly easier to use than recurves/compounds, both have vastly different mecahnisms of launching the arrow than a recurve/longbow ........ do you want me to continue with these "significant" differences ? I can ...... but you'll have to admit in the end that only recurves/longbows REALLY belong in archery season.

But you shoot a compound, right ? So you'll reject that idea .............. why ? Because your choice of a compound is vastly easier than if you chose a recurve, and you want to preseerve that choice. However, at the same time you don't want anyone else to have a choice at a crossbow ............ uh, because its easy ?

Yeah, that makes a LOT of sense, doesn't it ?

And see, you somewhat agree to that. However .......... where were you when the mechanical broadheads were legalized ? Did you try to fight it ? Mechanical releases ? Did you fight to stop >65 % letoff ? Fiber optic sights ? Horizontal limb technolgoy ?

See, its a good talk - reigning in technology ...... but thats all it. And I gaurantee you, fall 2005 the next little gadget that comes out that increases your chances of tagging a deer, you'll buy it for $49.99 and put in on your compound setup. Thats the way human natures is and it most certainly is what bowhunters by and large want - easier and better without the practice. Its your cake and eating it to, isn't it ?

And hey, I don't care - eat away - it won't effect my season one bit. And neither will all the crossbows that share Arkansas' season too.

And isn't that funny ? 30 years .......... they've been legal and we haven't seen any negative effects at all.

ARGUY - I believe some states do have spears as legal hog weapons ....... dunno about for deer though. An atlatl has been talked about in the past. But yeah, those primitive weapons, if proven to be somewhat accurate in the way they're used ............ sure, I don't have a problem with them really. It won't effect my archery season one bit.

I'll agree there .......... scopes shouldn't be allowed on crossbows. I don't think they should be allowed on muzzleloaders either. But they are ......... why ? Easier and better - less practice. Its what people want.

I suspect crossbows have different rules and regs because they are differnt. Some states have some funky rules for sure - length of broadhead, types of arrow, wieght, draw poundage etc etc. They also seperate the kill stats to identify if crossbows are having a negative impact. They havent BTW

I'll say this - crossbows are as vastly different from compounds as compounds are vastly differnt than recurve/longbow. They way they all work, the mechanics, the way they're shot, the accuracy, ease of use ......... all 3 are vastly different from the others.

As different as crossbows are, so are compounds. Its a fact and I can prove it. How ?

If compound were not that much easier, ya'll would be using them instead of compounds. Crossbows ARE easier to some degree - and people in AR and OH use them. But in those SAME states, compounders still have large numbers.

Trad hunters in those same states are still very much a minority.

Why ? Its harder - much harder - to use a recurve vs a compound/crossbow. Thats why

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Data

If the rules or laws change then I will as well, no problems its easy to.

I don't remember anyone saying they should not be used for hunting.

Most people with any issue, is toward the fact that they are more like a gun than any bow

A compound is more like a bow, rather than any gun, so that is why it is in a archery season.
Most here see the crossbow as more simular to a gun, you shoulder it like a gun, it stays cocked like a gun, all the ones I seen in the woods here in GA all have scopes on them. There fore as a general opinion we believe they should be in a season with a weapon that is atleast used in a simular fation.

I agree that weather you are using a crossbow or any other kind of bow you have the same effective range. If you get down to the issue at hand the different opinions we are running into are actually useing the weapon to harvest an animal. Useing the crossbow to harvest that animal is more simular to a any gun, rather than any bow. Do you agree? That is why we think it should not be in archery season, thats all no, more no less. I don't care who is in the woods while I hunt. Sir I hunt all Public land, I share with everyone. The crossbow is just to simular to a gun IMO to be put in a season with a bow.

The line should be drawn some were, and the biggest differance is in the use of the crossbow during archery season. Not the use of a compound vs a recurve or long bow. they all are used in a simular manor (Mechincal) to each other minus the crossbow.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Actually, I haven't made any improvements to my bow since I bought it 6 or 7 years ago. It shoots fine and if I miss I know it's my fault

I think it is your argument that is flawed (ex. as stated above, both compounds and crossbows have high letoffs--FALSE--crossbows have complete letoff at least as far as your own muscles are concerned..which is where letoff is beneficial) but like in so many other posts, you use your skills (very effectively as shown by this 30 pages of excruciating blather) of purposeful misinterpretation or ignorance of other legitimate and disagreeable points, inflammatory rhetoric (good-hearted, I'm sure),
and repetitive proliferation of your own innacurate beliefs (although I'm not even sure you believe them--you just like to argue for its own sake, which is fine)
However, in the end, it doesn't really create much thought provocation. It just grows tiresome trying to argue with someone who uses adolph hitler tactics of continual reiteration of fraudulent points until they are believed or the masses succomb

I still like you but refuse to debate this load of BS any further

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Seriously ? You follow along like a sheep with no original thought ?

Are you a Democrat ?

And they are wrong.

How ? Define "bow" - and then compare what bows have always been for centuries, then tell me again how compounds are really "bows" and crossbows aren't

Why no, I don't agree. Two limbs, a string, stored energy released as such propelling an arrow to its intended short range target ......... sounds like a bow to me. At least, every bit as much a bow as a compound.

So no, its not anywhere close to being like shooting a high powered rifle 350 yards at a deer. The only thing that does make it gunlike is the trigger and stock - that is, the way the bow is held and the way the arrow is released.

Is that what this boils down to ? How the bow is held and how its released ? Because if that is your arugment, then compounds once again are vastly different in the way they're held, the way they're shot and triggered and I'm with ya, lets start a movement to get those rifle like things out of archery season like that once were !

:D

Arkansas, Ohio, Georgia and several other states by fall 2005 will disagree with you. And more to follow.

hillbillyhunter1 - do you know what the first signs of someone losing a debate is ? Not being able to disprove what the other is saying and just giving up and going on believing what they always have.


Crossbows are no more accurate nor as good a weapon in the woods as a compound. Compounds have many advantages over the crossbows. Crossbows have NEVER proven to be a negative when allowed to be used in archery season. Compound have advanced so far they don't even look like bows anymore.

All that is fact - and G&F depts across the country are realizing it.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

These arguments are all flawed and incorrect:

(1) A compound does not have a trigger........a handheld release does. In other words, the pressure of drawing at the moment of the shot or just seconds before the shot is still the human element.

(2) Some compound users do not use sights, I've shot with some of them at 3D shoots and even what was once called the U.S. Nationals. I've even seen recurve shooters use sights.

(3) A crossbow has 100% letoff technically.

(4) An arrows sits on a rug or similiar on traditional equipment. An arrow sits on an arm of some sort on a compound, an arrow sits on a track of a crossbow. Big difference between a channeled track and any arrow rest, whether it be traditional or compound.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Yea they hold like a gun but that's as far as the comparison goes. The performance is nothing like a gun. The performance of it's like a compound (slightly less) and it shoots arrows that are propelled by a string and a couple of cams. They are way way way more similar to a compound than they are a gun.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Technically part of this is true. Compounders do use triggers though, vast majority and they might be one of the greater things that have taken compounds far beyond what they were suppose to ever be. Plus, compound are designed to shoot releases - a 30" ATA bow would be VERY tough to control with fingers. And really, crossbow triggers suck, they really do. Nothing like the high dollar ones that compounders use. I always prefrred Scott release, I never fancied rope or the thumb ones though.

A very few people shoot compounds traditional style. A crossbow has 100% letoff ........ But I believe I grouped them together as "high" letoff and 100% is pretty high, isn't it ?

OFf the shelf, using a Muzzy Zero Effect rest or shooting off a track .......... its all just a rest of some kind, no "big" difference at all.

In fact, they need to design crossbows like compounds where the contact of the rest/arrow is minimal. Compounders figured out years ago the less contact (especially at higher speeds) the better the arrow flight.

Compounds once again showing how they're a BETTER hunting weapon huh Cougar ?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

why do we bother ? to me it's obvious that this guy came in looking for a debate and 31 pages later proves he found one he won't listen to any views but his own so let's drop it

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

johnl - tsk tsk

I asked a simple question and the best answer so far ? (drum roll please)

Cougar's saying the arrow traveling on a rail is a "big" difference ............


LOL............ I'm still smiling to myself on that one.


But back 31 pages to the orig question ........... can YOU tell me one negative to crossbows being allowed in archery system ?

More hunter ? Nope, not a negative
Less season ? Well, yeah, thats a negative, but its never happened before
Less bag limt ? see above answer
Slob hunters ? We got them already - weapon does not indicate slob hunters
They're far superior weapons ? well, they're not
Too high tech maybe ? less so than compounds
Its all about the draw ? and compounds are easy because of the draw factor too


So you see............ 31 pages and still no negatives that have any merit at all

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Not through your eyes you meant to say!;)

Your rationale for your entire arguement is compounds are just as easy as crossbows.[&:] What else did you say? Compounds are actually more advantagous than crossbows?
Many folks have pointed out the HUGE differences between compounds and crossbows , you just refuse to listen.

I would love to have a huge outdoor shoot with everyone here. We'll bring a top of the line crossbow along with alot of our top of the line compounds. I guarantee that everyone could and would be doing things with that crossbow they only wished they could do with a compound.:eek: And consistantly too!

Ohhh I know what your gonna have for your rebuttle on that one. People can do things with their compounds that they dream about doing with a recurve.[:o] Here's a shocker for ya! Your gonna love this one. Some folks can shoot great with their trad gear and cant shoot worth a crap with compounds!
Yea , I happen to know a couple. Sounds absurd to you doesn't it? Thats because you think/expect everyone else to have your exact capabilities. :eek:

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Just a suggestion. Be sure and let them shoot from a rest or the prone position if they want to. As I understand things, the places that currently allow crossbows to shoot 3D with everyone else have a rule that they must be shot offhand. Which is why crossbow scores are so often lower than compound scores.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

data, I was about to post then I saw the donuts in your sig.

You got a lotta nerve, pal.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

I guess you could look at the fact if you are healthy and want to hunt during archery season in 47 of the 50 states you can't use crossbows.

So that will become 1 more negative to crossbows ... in almost every state in our country you can't hunt during Archery Season .... which happens to be my favorite season, so that is a HUGE negative.

Datamax .. do you not agree? Would you give up "Archery Season" if you live and hunt in any of those 47 states that don't allow them? Are you so convinced they belong you'd give up your ability to hunt archery season to make your point?

If guys like you need to win over guys like me to get crossbows into archery season across the country, I'd say based on the feedback here ... it's going to take a LONG time.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

First off I can't believe this is still going.....

Second, folks keep comparing crossbow to a rifle, not a gun, they are different, the range of a shotgun with buckshot, or a unrifled shot gun with a slug, or a muzzleloader (except the modern inlines) is roughly equal to a crossbow and compound.

Now back to the regularly scheduled, close minded debate.:eek:

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Ok Data and for ever whom else can't see the light that this is just how we feel on the subject.


let's say a deer is within range 20 yards. The diferance is when a crossbow is used to harvest a animal you lift the weapon like a gun, look through a scope, and pull the trigger, 90% of the shots can be done sitting down, what is the differance than a gun? If a gun was used it would be the same way. With a bow you 90% of the time you have to stand because we can't shoot across our bodies we have to get into position. Draw the bow back while keeping it on the rest, maintain back tension at full draw while aiming. keep a consistant grip, and ancor point through out the entire shot process. Hope there is enough light to see through the rear sight ( if you have one ) be able to release the arrow smooth enough that it does not interfear with shot placement. Then you have to follow through long enough for the 30 inch arrow to clear the bow. Through out the shot process who knows what the animal is doing, so you just sit there holding the bow, and hope nothing interfears with the longer action of the bow rather than the cross bow.


Data there is some differances with a compound compared to a longbow. But they require the same amount of movements to use it! Unlike the crossbow. Thats why we don't accept them in the same class as a BOW.

When you started this Thread you asked " Tell me one thing bad about cross bows" so you are asking for opinions. I give you mine, which is what you asked for, so why do you compare me to my States DNR Office opinions. It's like you are asking for a opinion and don't want to hear what we say!

You refered to me as a sheep for following rules or laws. I would hope you play by the rules as well.

Your replys to everyone, seems like you have never shot a bow, or atleast compared it to a Bow. Because if you had you would see the light.

Man I am done, you are not worth my time serving my country. I'll define that for you too. I have better things to do while currently Deployed fighting for you, rather than just sit here and listen to you be mad at yourself or people for answering a question you asked. You need a mirror to argue with Sir. I wish you the best in years to come.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Hey Bob My friends hunt with percution cap Muzzelloaders, and un-rifeled slugs that I have recorded killing deer, and hogs at 125 yards so get real man. Its not the range of the weapon it is how easy it is to use when hunting compared to a bow.:(

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Would you give up archery season if compounds were thrown out of general archery season ? I'd hazard a guess that 50% or more of compounders WOULD stop archery hunting if their only choice were to shoot recurves/longbows.

Like I said, perspective on the comparisons between crossbows/compounds/recurve and longbows when its all said and done show recurve/longbows on a whole 'nother level.

flat feet - I ALWAYS shot my compounds sitting down. I shoot my recurve/longbow sitting down as well. Too much movement to do otherwise

On the contrary its very likely i've shot more bows, and more different types of bows, than most guys on this thread. How ?

In 1990 I quit college and started contracting Telephony work. I traveled - literally - to the majority of the states in this country. I've never been a party, bar hoping person so what did I do with my free time ? I went to archery shops and shot. A lot. A whole lot. I started with a PSE Precision Edge. I remember shooting a Martin Onza, several High Country's, I bought/sold/traded a couple more PSE's, Golden Eagle (hated those bows), reflex and the last ones I had were Mathews. The High Country Excalibur was the one I killed most of my bowhunting animals with. Anyway, in 2000, I becamse very, very bored with compounds. Technology had come far enough i didn't have to practice. I could buy a new bow, from scratch set it up and have it shooting bullet hole paper and 3" groups in 20 minutes.

My buddy has a Black widow and I shot it and wow. I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn ! I had found a challenge that compounds no longer gave me. So I order an Adcock longbow and was hooked. The past 4/5 years have been tough on my hunting. I went the past 5-7 years of compound hunting never missing. Anything within 30 yards was dead if I wanted to kill it. This trad hunting though .......... just an absolute whole 'nother ballgame entirely.

So you see, I DO have quite abit of bowhunting and shooting experience to draw my conclusions from. As I have said before, I can shoot your compound very well ..... can you shoot my recurve ? Likely no, you cannot, which further shows how easy compounds are to shoot.

Crossbows are easy too, no doubt. Easier than compounds ? Yes, I think they are. Better weapons ? Absolutley not. Does either effect my bowhunting ? Definitive NO.

I've never understood how someone can get their feeling hurt, or get mad, of feel like they know someone through interenet discussions.

I'll agree with that 100% and the bold truth is ......... crossbows are easy, compounds are easy ......... recurves/longbows are hard, self bows are the hardest. Just like inlines are easy, caplocks are harder, flintlocks are the hardest.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

And I can show you folks who have killed with bows at very long ranges, ballistics of slugs has them falling off and keyholing way before that on average. We are talking about average hunter here, "effective" range of a "non modern" muzzleloader or a slug out of a smooth barrel is not 125 yards in the hands of an average shooter any more than the range of a compound is 125 yards in the hands of an average archer.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

The answer to your question is ABSOLUTELY NOT. If tomorrow compounds were outlawed, I'd grab my recurve (which I do anyway) and never miss a beat. I'd practice a bit more to stretch my effective range past 20 yards, perhaps out to 25 or so.. but I wouldn't for a second give up archery season.

I think you are way off on the 50% of us archers stopping hunting with bows if compounds were illegal like crossbows. In fact, I would think that figure may be closer to 10% to 15%. Time afield is the draw .. not the compound itself. I would bet that 10 to 15% would be back as well .. as soon as they could afford to buy new gear. Since you think 50% or more of archers only hunt during archey season because they can use compounds shows how out of touch you are with the archery community. The bow is the weapon ... it's the hunt that drives almost all of us to the woods.