please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

I came in late on the thread on the Traditional forum. Building on what was said over there ........... can anyone give me ONE negative that crossbows bring to archery. They're legal in several states. I'm wanting something REALLY negative, not just an opinion because you personally don't like them

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

I see it almost daily where I sell them. Mostly guys that are rifle hunters and for whatever their motives want to use a crossbow. Those with good intentions are recpetive to hearing some of the pitfalls of crossbows. Others, the ones to worry about, think that because it holds like a rifle then it has the effective range and energy of a rifel. And some of these cannot be told different. These guys are just looking for an easy way to go out and kill more deer. No respect for nature or the animals. Cannot enjoy the woods and what nature has to offer.

There those who have bowhunted for decades and just can't handle a bow anymore. I've had some of these come in and plop down $1300 for a good outfit with the realization they m,ay never shoot another deer--some of these guys in their 80's. They just want to be out there with their sons and grandsons. GOD BLESS EM.

Since I started HAVING to sell them I've changed my attitude about them somewhat. I still don't like them in archery season for the healthy and able, but I don't make the laws. But I do see some of the pitfalls of them that make them NOT an ideal weapon like some seem to believe.
They are bulky, heavy, noisy, and not real friendly walking in brushy areas. They don't have unlimited range. In fact, if a person faces reality it's a 40 yard/max weapon. You do for the most part get one shot and that's it.

There are only a couple brands that I've seen with any kind of quality to them and some are just stamped out of a mold to sell and make a bunch of money. It's not hard to see which are the better ones. Look at the price tag. Then look to see those with the least amount of plastic parts, especially sight mounts, rails and triggers. And try pulling the triggers on some of the cheap ones. I've shot some that are much much harder than any cheap shotgun. Not conducive to accuracy. But then the company making them isn't worried about accuracy---$$$.

OK, Ive ranted on long enough. Sorry for the speech.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

My limited experience has shown that users have a misconception as to their effective range and as a result lose deer.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Those same arguments can be made for compounds, guns, or muzzloaders. It's up to the individual to know the limitations of their weapon. I also worked at an archery shop for a couple of years, that sold crossbows, and IMO there were no more uninformed individuals with unrealistic expectations coming in to buy them than there were coming in to buy compounds.

The same could be said my gun hunters or trads toward those using compounds. But again, IMO it's not fair or correct to sterotype a group because of their equipment preference.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

silentassassin - exactly. Those are not negatives towards crossbows, because people everyday buy guns, compounds, recurve/longbows ........... all thinking that shooting them is easy and will result in easy filling of tags.

So ............ 4-5 hours and not a single valid negative of crossbows ? You have to ask yourself .......... IS there any negatives ?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

I completely agree it isn't fair to try to stereotype a group because they choose to use a crossbow. At the same time, I don't think that was BGfisher's intention. He did list three very different categories of crossbow hunters he has encountered.

From my experience I have noticed that many people that I have talked to realize a bow, whether it's a compound or trad, has a limited range, but feel that a crossbow has a great range. When I ask why they believe that they say because they are faster. I then explain that it's because a bolt is lighter than an arrow and has more energy transferred to it, but because it is so much light is loses that energy faster. For some it sinks in and others it doesn't. I have noticed that there is a pretty large misconception that crossbows are more "powerful."

With that being said I don't believe the problem is in the equipment, but in the lack of knowledge by the general public about the proper application of that equipment. Just like the guy who thinks it's OK to take an 80 yard shot with a compound because he's never been told otherwise.

To me, yes. They are loud. They are heavy. They are cumbersome to reload. These are all subjective and some may not feel any of these factors are an issue. I've considered buying a crossbow to play around with, but the cost of a good one is too prohibitive at this time.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

The problem with most crossbows is not the bow it's the operators. I think it is unethical to shoot an animal at 40 yards with one, without rangefinding that animal. The arrows just drop off to much to be accurate at that range. If you guess an animal to be at 40 yards and its at 43 with a crossbow you most likely have a wounded animal. They shoot to light of arrows, they don't retain enough MOMENTUM (talk energy all you want). Most crossbows are not tuned the way compounds are (do you bareshaft yours?). 90% of those that use crossbow are capable of using a compound, but they are lazy. This tends to spill over into other things, such as tracking. I have hunted with 2 guys that use crossbows, I see it all of the time. They have wounded 3 deer in 2 years because they are lazy, too lazy to practice, or track the animals to the extent they should be tracked.

If you are one of the ones that tune, and shoot your crossbow alot don't pay attention to this. Most of the time a crossbow hunter gets his bow out the weekend of and shoots it and is ready to go. This leads to many animals lost. As for the ederly, or the disabled people of the world, more power to them. Same way with kids. I'm glad to have these people in our sport. I'm not against crossbows, I'm against the idea that the crossbow breeds. I can go out, not practice and shot animals. I do think they are inferior to the compound, but this means nothing, because the compound is inferior to a rifle. The big difference is the type of people that shoot them. (Disclaimer: this doesn't mean everyone that shoots them, I'm not attacking anyone that uses one, this includeds the disabled, elderly, kids, people new to the sport, and those that are responsible and practice as much as possible and take ethical shots and track their animals to their full potential.)

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Data & Sniper,

If you guys look at it that way than there can really be no negative to any weapon if it is up to the user to know it's limitations. Which should be expected of the person. Maybe, instead we should be looking at what is positive about a crossbow? I personally have never used one or even looked at one up close. I don't know anything about effective ranges or what kind of kinetic energy they produce. I would be interested to learn about these things.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

IMO there aren't any negatives against crossbows except for other archer's perception. I don't hunt with one, but I hunt in a state where it is legal (Arkansas). My brother in law hunts with one while I hunt with my compound. Any advantage of a crossbow IMO is again perception. He has no advantage over me and my compound bow.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

No, what I'm getting at is people are frenzied over hating crossbows. Why ? What NEGATIVE do they bring to archery season. Like ......... are so many more deer killed that the seasons are cut short ? Are there more hunting accidents ? Are the woods overcrowded ? Things that are NEGATIVE to archery season that cannot also be applied to compounds, recurves or longbows ?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

My state says its illegal unless disabled. The biggest disadvantage I can think of is that, for a health person, there really is no advantage. (I know that's a lowsy answer).

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Soilarch - if there is no real advantage, why not allow them in archery season ? What IS the reason they are illegal ?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

OK, I will bite. The only real difference between the two is the action/movement it takes to shoot it. Effective range etc, is roughly equal to a compound, infact a compound in the hands of a GOOD shooter will have a slightly longer range due to the ballistics of a short/heavy crossbow bolt.

the one major difference, is you don't have to draw it while the deer is there. This is the single hardest thing to do bowhunting. How many of us actually got to full draw the first few tries? How many of us get busted every year trying to draw? At a crossbow hearing several years ago, the Horton rep (who was pushing the deal) said the reason he switched to a crossbow was he was tired of getting caught drawing the bow. People make a counter argument about high letoff etc, but this doesn't remove the fact that you still are drawing the bow while the deer can see you.

I will admit this is a somewhat weak argument however.

Now the "real" answer. Whether or not a crossbow should or shouldn't be allowed as a weapon in archery season should be up to: the biologists. The facts are that allowing it will bring more hunters into archery season (you can debate whether it belongs there, I could care less). IF and here's the catch, the deer herd can NOT handle the deer kill being raised, then NO it they should not be allowed, just as ANY other change designed to raise the deer kill should not be allowed. In many states the deer herd needs more being shot, in some, such as NH, it can't handle it, our herd is BELOW capacity and below the F&G goals and they are trying to grow the herd and have over the last several years taken action to reduce the kill (talk about political hot potato!).

If the herd needs further reducing, then crossbows are a viable option to raise hunter numbers. Whether you add a "crossbow season" or just include them as a bowhunting weapon alternative is a different debate.

--Bob

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

I don't think it belongs in bow season. I would hate to see that happen to our public land hunting brothers. It really won't effect me either way, I hunt private and there will never be xbow on it.

The xbow in bow season is only being pushed by gun hunters. Now, if gun hunters want to give up some gun season to allow xbows, go right ahead, no problems here. But bow season should be reserved for bowhunters.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Uh ........... watch the next deer hunting show on TV. Compound shooters do not draw when the animals are in presencd, nor when they can see you. You draw when the head is behind a tree, walking away, coming in, ..... never do you draw on a deer in plain view, in a shooting position with a compound nor do you maneuver your crossbow when the deer is right there - you'll get busted everytime doing that !

So "drawing in the presence" isn't a valid argument to discount crossbows.

So you're against two season hunters ? Bowhunters should never gun hunt ? Don't the tags stay the same regardless of what weapon is used ? And isn't it true that "bowhunters" 30 years ago caved in and allowed that radical new "compounds" and afterwards the sport of archery changed dramatically - and for the better - and it changed into what archery hunting is today ?

Bu again you fail to point out even 1 negative that archery season open to crossbows would bring, haven't you ? And its a simple request really .... isn't it ?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

If xbows were legalized in some states and gun hunters turned out in droves to use the xbow during archery season, deer numbers would decline, therefore resulting in either restrictive limitations, shortened seasons, or banning of archery season all together. Xbows could potentially be the downfall of archery season as we know it. It all depends on the response from the gun hunters.

No, in MS you get 2 extra does with the bow. Also, tags are based on deer numbers, when number start declining, so do tags.

I think bowhunters need to stand up and fight this. What's next, muzzleloaders during bow season? You midwestern states better take notice, or soon the guns will be blasting during the middle of the rut, like they do down here.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Indiana allows it's bow hunters to hunt with their bows during both of our firearm seasons(shotgun and ML) , crossbows are not allowed for deer hunting during our early archery season , neither are guns . Anyone who could call that fair is undoubtedly a bow-only hunter or very close to it . Ironically , while our regs won't call xbows "archery equipment" you can't hunt with one unless you have an "archery" tag if you're after deer or turkeys .

I can't think of a single negative about them .

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

How many states allow crossbows ? Has what you fear EVER happened in those states ? Ever ? If not, then you have no factual data to back your fear up and in fact, you'll have proven its an unfounded fear. Crossbow legalization WILL result in more hunters ....... and thats a good thing. But so many more that archery season is reduced ?

Let me ask you this. Next year in your state for some reason theres tens of thousands more compound shooters. And the next year your G&F shortens arhcery season because of the impact of all those extra compound shooters. Will you lobby for taking compounds out of archery season ?


A silly assumption. A muzzleloader is a weapon that uses loose powder and ignition to propel a bullet. thats not archery, is it ?

www.m-w.com

2 : a weapon that is made of a strip of flexible material (as wood) with a cord connecting the two ends and holding the strip bent and that is used to propel an arrow


That is what a bow is.



-=========


Still waiting for one little Fact that says crossbows in reg archery season = bad things. Its hard, isn't it ?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

This is not a valid question because what you are asking can be asked about any weapon. Could I find a negative using a longbow, recurve, compound, crossbow, shotgun, rifle, muzzleloader, spear, throwing knife, powerful slingshot using steel projectiles, blowgun, etc. ;) So using those examples, any of those weapons could be lethal if the user is proficient with them. Why not allow any weapon that someone can kill a deer with into archery season or firearms season or both? Why don't we just put all the weapons together and have one season..........anything goes?

Data, from the amount of posts and time you spend on crossbows, its obvious you want to use a crossbow in a state that currently doesn't allow it unless the user is handicapped. I have also read posts from some that say its selfish not to allow crossbows in archery season. Is it not also selfish on a person's part to want to use a weapon, well, just to use that weapon because that is what they wish to use?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

A crossbow is a weapon that has a stock, a trigger, is not hand held and drawn. Thats not archery is it?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Actually data is from a state that does allow crossbows, as am I, though he spends most of his time hunting with trad equipment. The fact is that very few deer are taken out of the herd with Xbows in our state and it has been an absolute non-issue on our hunting with the exceptions of increased revenue for our G & F div. and our sporting goods stores.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Cougar - if its so obvious, don't you know I live in Arkansas, a state that hsa allowed crossbows for close to 30 years ? I can't want for them, they've been here all along.

But back to your response, lets look at it like this.

Crossbows in archery season have resulted in _____________________

Fill in the blank. More hunters ? Hey, thats a good thing. Greater archery kill ? Again, a good thing because it means more hunters which means more numbers. I'm looking for shortened archery season or fewer tags or something along those lines.

Kinda like this


Liberal rifle does tag in rifle season have resulted in the overall deer herd declining. That indicates that liberal doe tags were a NEGATIVE thing to do.

I suppose automatic weapons would result in some negative. High capacity magazines for waterfowl hunters. Lead shot. Using the POD. things like that. Things like rifles can't be allowed in archery season because they are rifles (meaning they have gunpowder propelling bullets etc)


I mean, if crossbows are that obviosuly bad for archery, it should be an easy thing to point out, shouldn't it ?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

I know Data is from Arkansas and that they are legal there........good for Arkansas. But he hunts elk in Colorado and whitetails in Kansas as well. I don't know about Kansas, but I do know that crossbows are not allowed in Colorado during archery season. Just curious as to why he is pushing them.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Sorry I don't buy that for a minute. Arkansas has made crossbows legal during archery season for several years to my recollection. There haven't been any of the above effects on the herd or on the archery season.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

A crossbow is a gun........the only difference is that this gun shoots arrows.
It belongs in firearms season for all but the people who are truly physically unable to draw a bow.
An open sighted .44 mag has what sort of effective range for the average person? How about a flintlock muzzleloader? They're both similar to a bow or a crossbow.......maybe we let handguns into archery season too?[:'(]

Archery season = Archery gear
Firearms seaons = guns.........a crossbow is a gun.

There's no point in debating this with me because you will never convince me that a crossbow is not a gun. It is. It is loaded and cocked ahead of time, can be scoped , does not require drawing , shooting or letting down at the time of the shot, and is ready to fire at all times.
It is a gun and I don't give a crap if it doesn't use gunpowder. Neither does a high powered air rifle but that's still a gun.

You crossbow guys.......you want to join the archery season? Would you support a law that prohibits you from pre-cocking your crossbow while in stand? You'd only be allowed to cock it in the presence of game at the moment that it needed to be shot.
Didn't think so.

Don't for a second try to compare drawing on an animal with ANY hand drawn bow VS a crossbow. There is no parallel.

So after all that, the negative to a crossbow in the archery season is that it is a gun. Treat it as such.
I have nothing against a crossbow, they're kinda fun to shoot, but put them where they belong........firearms seasons.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

That could be how YOU define it. I could throw an arbitrary definition like "a crossbow has a machined riser, sights and shoots non-wood arrows" but you and I both know that isn't the REAL definition of what a bow is nor what historically archery is.

A crossbow most certainly IS hand held, and IS hand drawn. It has a trigger, but then by and large most compound shooters use triggers too. A stock is what the limbs attach to. A machined aluminum riser is what the limbs are attached to. Held differently ........ but the bow still functions the same, doesn't it ? Still got limbs and a string and the energy that proiduces propelling an arrow. Single shot, short range weapons.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Why can't the same then be said about fully automatic rifles during rifle season of which you mentioned in a previous post?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Crossbows use primers and gunpoweder, a magazine and shells ? I didn't know that !


Well, of course they don't, you and I know that. There is a LOT of difference between guns and crossbows, probably about the same number of differences as a compound. Ans of course, a .44 mag is a gun, shoots bullets, uses primers and gunpowder, vastly different than what archery is.

Matt / PA - you are a die hard anti-crossbow zealot, I can tell. But you and I both know what IS a gun and what isn't a gun as they are defined. IF you are correct, then Arkansas, Ohio, and states like that are allowing guns in archery season ? No, c'mon man, you and I know thats not accurate. Or better yet, they allow guns for handicap people only ?


And yes, I CAN parallel someone shooting a deer with a crossbow and a compound. Neither draw when the deer is in the presence of the shooter, both use triggers, both use sights, both use cutting edge technology, both likely use carbon/aluminum arrows, both have high letoff or no letoffs ......... see how easy that is ?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Cougar - because # 1 fully auto rifles are illegal :D

But seriously, they would be dangerous. In fact some states rifles are considered dangerous because of the population or the numbers of hunters and slugs are all thats allowed. I suspect fully auto would also get a reaction from the Ethical police, on how unfair it would be to have the ability to rattle off 30 shots at a deer.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

So now it comes down to definitions and how each individual perceives them?

No....wrong. A crossbow's forearm is held by one hand(I will give you that), but its shouldered like a firearm and is not hand drawn before the shot. Maybe cocked, but not hand drawn or hand held by most correct definitions. Example: Illinois classifies a longbow, recurve, and compound bow as being hand held and hand drawn. Illinois does not classify a crossbow as either. I am guessing that most other states define these in the same way.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Pretty cocky aren't ya?.........and misguided I might ad What do you think we just sit in our stands holding our bows at full draw waiting for an animal to approach?
I got news for ya.......we HAVE TO DRAW THEM, we have to find a way to get away with that movement, find the right time to draw the bow back.........of course we will wait until an animal is behind a tree etc.
Guess what else? Sometimes, many times we cannot get the bow back because the animal doesn't offer us the opportunity to........or worse yet, we draw the bow back and the animal doesn't give us a shot. Then guess what? We have to LET DOWN the bow because I don't know of anyone who can hold one back for 4 hrs like you can.

What do you as a crossbow hunter have to do when an animal approaches.......do you need to stand and consider when to draw? Do you have to find just the right moment to try to get your bow drawn? Do you have to let down if the animal turns and hangs up? Do you do anything like that?
No you don't.........you aim and wait for the animal to present the shot. PERIOD.
Oh wait I do guess you have to take the safety off as well........sorry.:eek:

And if you think they are the same then you are a brainwashed individual simply because you choose to hunt with a crossbow, or like crossbows or whatever, but they are not even close to being the same.
I can tell you with 100% certainty that I would have 3 bucks over 140" on my wall had I been hunting with a crossbow rather than a hand drawn compound bow. I can say that with certainty, because had all I needed to do in each case was aim and shoot they are dead...........however because I had to do all of the above that I mentioned, and didn't do them just right, those bucks walked away. And that's just fine by me because that is ARCHERY hunting, not gun hunting.

There is no parallel to hunting with a bow and hunting with a crossbow other than the way the projectile kills.

I'm not an anti crossbow nut.........but I sure am an anti crossbow in ARCHERY season nut. Ague all you want they aren't comparable. That is a fact, not an opinion.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Yes it is good for Arkansas. The AGFC commissioners realize that there is really no issue there between crossbows and other archery. Again, it is perception and I'm suprised that some of the Moderators of this forum are so close minded about it. If your state doesn't allow it, that's there choice. As long as it is a legal method and it gets hunters who might not otherwise be hunting out, I'm all for it. I understand in northern states it might be a bit more crowded especially if you hunt public land. But don't force your opinions down other people's throats in states that do allow hunting with a crossbow.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Well, legally its what the G&F decide to allow in archery season. But what we're discussing here is really this Cougar - is the modern compound bow really any different than a compound in functionality, ability to use and impact on archery ? Its certainly not a gun because it uses the same physics to propel an arrow as a recurve, a compound or longbow. Its got tricks on it - but then so does the modern compound.

We can discuss what IS and ISN'T legal in archery season til we're blue in the face. Thats NOT what I'm getting at.

What I'm saying, and asking, is that IF there is or has been ANY negatives from crossbow use, post them. Show me. I argued for a while AGAINST crossbows until someone asked me why I believed like I did and honesly, my argument didn't hold water and I was forced to continue believing something that was flawed or rethink it all.

IF crossbows have ANY negative impact, I'll lobby against them with the lot of you. But I would do the same if compounds showed to be bad or rifles etc. But crossbows have never been shown to have a negative impact, have they ?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Datamax, your argument of xbows = more hunters is not valid IMO. In MS, 99% of hunters by a sportsmans licenses. With that license you can hunt all game by all legal methods. If xbows are legalized, I guarantee you that 99% of those who use one will be individuals who already gun hunt therefore already buy licences.

There may be other economic impacts, such as food, gas, etc... But since when is hunting about nothing more than making money?

The following is a excert from The Mississippi Bowhunters Association Website, biased I admit, but I support their stance 110%.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Because I am a moderator means I can't have a personal opinion? Ok, I am changing my signature and adding a disclaimer that because I am a moderator, my views do not necessarily represent the views of this website. I am not forcing my opinion down anyone's throat anymore than you are my friend. I am just voicing my opinion as you are.

Why can't crossbows be used in firerarms season? It would fit in very well there.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

You're kidding me right?........Datamax starts this thread looking for people's opinions, then tries in every instance to shove his down OUR throats because we don't jump up and down , kiss and hug and agree?
If your state allows it for whatever reason then that's your bag, I don't happen to agree with it for personal reasons, and will fight against the same thing happening in my state.

He wants a debate........he'll get a debate.

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Matt / PA - I've very cocky because I've debated this for 5 years, my agrument has few weaknesses.

Your argument started out with "a crossbow is a gun" and I think we both agree its vastly far from it.

You shifted from that into the old "you still have to draw the bow" argument. Okay ...... if drawing your bow and how the game is geographically located to the hunter is what makes a bow a bow I submit then that a compound isn't a bow. Why ? Well, compared to recurve/longbow that must be drawn at the moment the deer is to be shot is vastly different than drawing when its NOT, holding the bow with 80% or greater letoff and then shooting when convenient.

I'm pointing this out like this because its true - however you choose to gauge WHY a crossbows isn't to be allowed, the same exact core argument can be held to compounds vs longbows/recurves. That is a true, its factual, I've done this a thousand time and it rally comes down to this - compound shooters LOVe to shoot triggers, tricked out bows, high speeds, cams/wheels, high letoffs - all the bells and whistles - almost anything to make your archery hunting EASIER. Thats human nature, its the way hunters are. Yet you don't want to allow crossbows .............. why ? What are the negatives ? Sure, its easy in a sense compared to compounds isn't it ? but wait, compounds are very easy compared to recurve/longbows, so where does that lead the argument ?

And back to my orig question - one negative please that crossbows have resulted in.



Just one please

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Matt / PA - I'm not forcing anything. Your states G&F will decide, and that deicison will hopefully be based on biological data and not influenced too much by special intrest groups although as wel know it very much will be. And yeah, crossbow manufacturers will pull hard, and so mill compounds manufactureres and P&Y club etc etc.

But I didn't start this to fight like cats and dogs. Debate it with me. Please SHOW me why crossbows are bad. Why ? Yes, they are diffrernt in their design but not unlike how compounds are vastly differnt that recurves/longbow in appearance, use, accuracy etc etc.

Double Creek - what would happen if MS tripled its archery kill this fall ? If there were 3X the people killing 3X the numbers of deer. What would happen in your opinion ?

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

Datamax, that could not happen, even with xbows

RE: please tell me just one negative to crossbows
 

The only negative I have now for crossbows seems to be the type of personalities they attract.


This thread will never end until you get the answer you're waiting for...



Datamax, there is absolutely no negatives to crossbows. They are fabulous marvels of modern hunting and should be included in both firearm and archery season as a testament to their true versatility and superiority.