Apparently you do because I have been around them for a long long time and I have never seen one that will do the things that you claim yours will do. But my question is this, if they are so superior in the accuracy department then why do you have to shoot mechanicals to get any accuracy with them?
I saw George Dixon shoot a Caribou at 70 + yards with a compound. Should they be outlawed during the archery season? If not then I fail to see the point you are trying to make.

They still shoot arrows. You still got the same effective range. You still have to be able to judge yardage. The only diffence is that you shoulder the weapon. But I will agree they are different in that aspect. Just as compounds are different in many aspects from trad equipment.

I've been following this for a while but have not really posted, but here goes.

I personally do not think we should allow crossbows in archery season.

Data,

Alot of your argument revolves around the false impressions people get of crossbows. People believe they have greater effective range, but because KE is significantly less this, is not true. This is exactly one reason they should not be allowed. I fear that they will attract hunters who do not take the time to get to know their weapons limitations. A lot of gun hunters who only pick up their rifle or shotgun during hunting season will see crossbows as a way around all of the practice that goes into hunting with a compund.

You can talk all day about the fact that it's the operators responsibility to know the limitations, but the problem is a lot of people do not want to take the time or put in the effort to fulfill this responsibility. This can result in lazy hunters picking up their crossbow and thinking they can shoot deer 60 yards away. Now, don't get me wrong I don't think all people who would use crossbows will be irresponsible and unmotivated, but what is stopping people from picking up a compound? It must have something to do with the lack of motivation to practice and perfect which says something about the character of the person. This type of person is likely to be more careless and probably less likely to put forth substantial effort in recovering his game.

You will probably say that this type of behavior is exhibited by users of compounds, which is true, but I think alot less so than would be with those that use crossbows.

People say that in states where crossbows are legal they have not expercienced any problems, but this is only based on data that is calculated - what about unrecovered game? Surely, there is not someone counting how many deer are lost per year by users of crossbows.

Choice of weapon is very personal though for some people, its as simple as convenience for others.

Nobody is answering that, because they themselves use compounds and they'd be effectively be arguing themselves out of their own chosen weapons !

flat feet - AR, OH, GA - they don't make people wear orange. And its vastly easier to draw on a deer with a compound, hold and shoot when you're ready than to shoot with a recurve when the deer is RIGHT THERE.

I'm spanking you here buddy - how come you don't respond to my retorts ? Too good for you ?

GRIZZLYMAN - now THAT is a valid CON because it would happen, woulnd't it ?

silentassassin - we're getting to them I think [8D]

MNRut -

A valid concern however its never happened before in AR, OH and GA, has it ? No more so than slob compound shooters, slob recurve shooters and slob gun hunters. Its a wives tale fear - its not reality.

Same can be said of compounds


You were right but if your theory is true, then AR and OH would be slob capitals of the country. Yet OH is one of the top 5 trophy states and AR has made leaps and bounds since the 3 point rule. Never once has crossbows been a negative.

Its arguable that trad hunters exhibit much more ethics than compounders - we have to pracitce all year round to keep the edge and compounders don't. Your argument there IS comparable with compounds vs recurves and only furthers my points.

Nor compounds. Geeez man, just go back to October and November right here on this forum and read all the "I missed" threads and " I bloodied one" threads.

All compounder shooters buddy

Funny huh? Maybe they all just "missed" that question so I will post it again.




I would like to see how some people rationalize this.

It was ok back then to bring in something new and VERY different AND include it in the SAME season, but now it's completely out of the question...unless it has it's own season.

Kinda like my question on the kids in my signature line being bowhunters. Most guys won't touch it with a 10' pole because of how it'll make them look (a few guys did respond though - kudo's to them for doing so)

Silent

Since you are a hunter I will go out on a limb, and say you know deer see movement, ok. When you bow or crossbow hunt deer are closer to you rather than gun hunting, the deer have a BETTER CHANCE of spotting you with the orange vest. If you were not wearing a orange vest it would be harder for the deer to see you. If you see in black and white it is still easier to see a solid color, verses any kind of camo. Please tell me if I am wrong, I will start hunting with a NEON sign.

Please tell me you understand that it is easier for a deer to see a hunter in a solid color rather than being decked out in Realtree Hardwoods. Because if you don't then you need to start debating, that you need your rifle in bowseason too. Are you here to argue or actualy see how people feel on different subjects?

No I don't have any University to back my beliefs up. All I do have is allot of Common sence. As do most people. Please don't think I want to argue, I thought my last post explaned its self. Have a good one, hope to see you in the woods, no mater what legal weapon you use.

Thats exactly the kind of answer I expected from you.

Why 1/8 to compounds and 1/8 to crossbows? How about we split it up equally?

Afterall , your arguement three years ago was about "the integrity of bowhunting" not strictly losing hunting time. Remember?

Assy,

I'll take that bet!! It's funny how it quickly turned into "standing" when thats not how crossbow hunters will shoot when hunting.
I'll still take that bet!! Make sure the Chevy has a full tank of gas!


No you cant!! Period! Not you or anyone else can guarantee the same results in every state!!!!!!!!!

Glad you asked. The way I understand it WI has the longest bow season in the U.S. running from sept 15th(<sat closest) to jan 3rd with 9 days of that time going to gun hunters. I see no reason we cant find room in their for a crossbow season. I also think to be fair for all , the seasons should rotate to give all weapon choices a chance during the rut except gun season. There is a reason the DNR has gun season when it does. If gun season were during prime rut it could have devastating results on the deer herd.

It doesn't effect me or my hunt today but it could tomorrow. If there are seperate seasons and they introduce crossbow to a state that has never allowed them it can show them first hand if there will be problems. If they start out with a one month crossbow season and by the second year the crossbow season is producing twice the numbers of regular archery season then they have the problem pin pointed. By just throwing it in the general season theres no way of knowing who shot what with what weapon besides maybe a question box on a tag and relying on the honesty of everyone isn't good science.

To answer your question in all honesty (although I'd love to throw a smart arse remark somewhere) most states cannot control the deer herd now. Do you think it would get better by going back in time to more primitive weapons? It really wouldn't bother me personally because I started with a recurve and lately I'm kind of sick of all the techno but from a DNR deer management perspective? Never happen.

No I understand that it is your belief that orange is a negative. However, I hear a lot of speculation on both sides but I am still not sure how people come to their conclusions. It's kind of like when people say that a deer didn't smell them because they were wearing scent lok and the deer was directly down wind. Well I have been directly down wind of hundreds of deer without scentlok and they didn't smell me. So does that mean the deer didn't smell them because they were wearing scent lok or because of the thermals or the deer just wasn't bothered by the smell or you just weren't putting off that much odor. We really have no way of knowing other than opinion and anecdotal evidence. Whether or not a deer sees someone because they had on orange or because they saw movement etc is much the same. All I can tell you is that I have bowhunted a lot with orange during the gun and muzzloader seasons (because I have only gun hunted a couple of times in the last 5 years) and I have not noticed any difference in deer seeing me. Now lots of things factor into that like movement, tree stand height and placement, background cover etc. but again how do attribute how much of a role each played in the equation. I personally don't know of any way other than anecdotal evidence through hunter observation which is purely speculation. I don't have any problems being seen while bowhunting with orange on so I dont' have any reason to think of it as a negative. If you have seen this repeatedly then that would be justification for your reasoning though I would again ask what role did those other factors play in you getting spotted. I have known a couple of different guys that actually wore blaze orange jump suits to bowhunt out of in the late season. One of those guys was a top notch bowhunters that had killed over a 100 deer with a bow while he was still in his early 40's back in the mid 80's. There's no telling how many he has killed to this day. He wouldn't wear any thing but orange in the late season which most people would tell you is the most likely time to be spotted since the deer have received more pressure at that time of year and there is very little cover. But I will say my point about the safety side of wearing orange being a pro was made merely for the point of argument although it's pretty tough for me to call something that may potentially save the life of a another hunter a negative.

Flat Feet

Is that a statewide policy or just on the base.

It's been debated alot about just what do deer see and I still don't know if clothing matters all that much. There was a guy who shot a deer with a bow and arrow in a santa suit to prove cammo was overrated.

I know during the gun season I have deer all around me and I have to wear solid orange. They never even know I'm there unless I move. Last year I had a doe eating right under my stand for no less than a 1/2 hour and she never knew I was there. I could hear her chewing! BTW that stand is only 12 feet off the ground. She then grazed out about 15ft away and bedded down for another 20min in some tall grass in front of my stand before walking away.

Bobo,

I'll make the bet either way

Sure I can, I just did. You wanna see me do it again? But your right, I can't be sure but I would again be willing to wager boldly.

Actually ours would be longer then since we can hunt from Oct. 1 - Feb. 15 and we can bowhunt through the gun season BUT other than that I pretty much agree with that. I again think the logical thing to do would be to make the one season all inclusive but if we are going to seperate them I think that is precisely the way to do it.