You want a positive effect of allowing Crossbows into archery season? Read above and tell me if it would not be a positive thing for those HUNTERS who are less fortunate than us.

The states that allow handicapped hunters access to the ENTIRE archery season are on the right track. But some of you don't even want that, you would rather see them hunt in the gun season because of some selfish twisted logic that makes you think they are not BOW HUNTING! Do me a favor and the next time you see an old timer or a handicapped person with a crossbow walk up to them and tell them to their face they aren't bowhunters.

Only at that moment you will realize just how wrong you are, and may God forbid you should ever find yourself in the same situation as them. I would like to hear it from YOUR mouth that YOU are no longer a bow hunter just because you can't pull back your precious compound bow anymore.

How quick you are to judge others.....Don't tell me they aren't BOW HUNTERS

And there in lies the problem.. your ultimate response is "what would it hurt?". At the root of all of the posts is this point. Silent calls it "Archer Greed" for not allowing Crossbows to be included. What Archers call it is defining and defending the sport of archery. Add a crossbow and then there is no way you could ever limit the technology added to a compound bow. How could you not allow a draw lock if you allow a crossbow? How can you not allow a laser sight but allow a 3X9 variable scope on crossbow? The fight against crossbows is not against crossbows per se, it is against shredding the sport of archery. Allowing crossbows hurts archery on so many levels .... it takes away the need to "learn" archery, it opens the doors to ANY technology advancement to be allowed, it ends the concept of defining seasons by weapon types. Lumping them together is the same as saying there should be 2 seasons .. powder propellants and limb energy weapons. Then why not just 1 hunting season? For all .. equal, with any legal weapon of your choice? It's not a stretch.. your arguments could just as easily be applied to all these scenarios.

By allowing a crossbow to be a crossbow, and bows to be bows and and ML's to be ML's allows them to be managed individually, develop their own unique followings and allow for a diversity of hunting experiences. It gives us as hunters an opportunity to try and hunt at different times, with different weapons. I say "what does it hurt to keep them separate"? If it is a few crossbow hunters who want a longer season ... I don't want to exclude them, I just don't want the baggage they bring. I don't want the precedent they set.. and I don't wan't the division they cause. By allowing their own seasons, you avoid these elements .. and they are not made up.. they are real. If you doubt what I say .. then refer to the 47 states that don't allow them, and truly ask yourself, why have they been separated? The reason is right there in front of your faces.

Yes

BigJ ... a moving post. The reason they are allowed to use a crossbow is because they can't use legal archery gear any longer. We could debate the point that years of archery hunting mean they are a bowhunter still, just not able to use a bow. Or they are now a crossbow hunter doing the best they can with what they have .. and we should admire their effort. But I'll be the first and step up, they are not "Bow Hunting" any more.... I don't think less of them, or that they are inferior .. in fact I admire the zeal with which a challenged person attacks the woods when they no longer have the strength to archery hunt. I hunt each fall with 3 such guys. 2 still carry their bows .. and sit on a log and watch nature. Knowing they can't draw their bow any longer, but don't care about the harvest any longer. 1 guy uses a crossbow, my fathers uncle .. and yes, we all give him grief about it. As he says .. he may not be able to shoot a bow any more, but he stills loves venison. Of course he has not shot anything with it .. but he still goes. I don't think he is bowhunting ... but he is no less a hunter.

That isn't exactly true. They grab a crossbow because it allows them to hunt a season they always have hunted. They would grab a gun if it was legal. They don't grab a crossbow because they think it "is" bowhunting, they grab a crossbow because it is the only weapon they can shoot that allows them in the woods ... as most true hunters would.

Data, Here you go (I found it on pg 93)

Uh, actually, I CAN argue that. Your compounds are only 10-20% away from full letoff. Your compound however, is 80% MORE letoff than my recurve, isn't it ?

So if its all about the drawing of the bow, you have to admit that a compound is a lot farther away from what real bows are than a crossbow is from a compound

MA Jay -


It changes every other year with the advancements of the compound, doesn't it ? Remember when >65% letoff was blasphemey ? Remember when mechanical releases were against the law ? Fiber sights ? Mechanical broadheads ? Archery definitions are redefined every year thanks to the compound - aren't they ?

There will be no limits anyway - you should know this. Even the P&Y club caved into the 65% letoff rule - why ? Compounders demanded it.

The "shredding" or archery is not being done by recurve, and its not being done by longbows, is it ? Compounds are responsible for all the shredding - aren't they ? They push and stretch the legalities and definitions of what archery is - every year - with new technology, new designs etc etc.

There is little learning anymore with compounds - you know this. Almost all technology IS allowed - in great quantities - thanks to the compound. Aren't they ?

Another thread perhaps I will say this - one season will see most trad hunters still shooting their trad bows, most compounders going back to guns and almost all crossbowers going back to guns. Thats a true

Would you be for a seperate compound season based on the same argument ?

The reason ? Compounders hate crossbows, don't want to share their season even in the face of the facts from AR, OH and GA. More states WILL allow them in the furute, get ready for it. And the results of them becoming legal will not be great and they won't affect your season one bit.

You are wrong, handicapped and the elderly can use a firearm, They CHOOSE to pick up the crossbow so they can BOW hunt. I don't believe for a second you would allow someone to tell YOU that YOU were no longer a bow hunter just because you had shoulder surgery and could no longer pull back your bow. Yeah keep telling me that

No once again I am saying it would help women and kids and those with shoulder injuries and it help all bowhunters in general by strengthening our numbers. Two big positives IMO. You are choosing to only hear "what would it hurt?"

I don't care how you define archery. It's bowhunting I am concerened about. I don't think your personal preference should determine how others should have to hunt. I don't think your unwillingness to share the woods should determine how others are allowed to hunt.

Archery or bowhunting? Your view of what bowhunting is doesn't make it the right one. That should be left up to the individual. Again if it won't affect you and gets others involved int he sport what do you care other than you might not be perceived quite as pretigiously as you once wer or at least thought you were.

No it doesn't. Weapons are grouped by the projectile and how it is propelled. Muzzloader = baclk powder and a bullet Modern Fire Arm = cased powder and bullet Bow = arrow propelled by limbs and a string. It makes a lot of sense to me

That's a different thread.

You are resorting to the illogical. If we open the door to crossbows they will all come rushing in but it's rediculous. They all shoot arrows and they have identical ranges, trajectories and KE energy and they all kill via broadhead surely you can see the distinction is much different to that of allowing firearms.

Exactly and a crossbow is a boe it's just a different kind of bow just like a compound is a different kind of bow than a trad bow.

You know what all of those statements have in common. The word "I" That's what this is really all about is "you" you aren't thinking about anyone but yourself and you have the nerve to call me bitter[:'(][&:]

I will it you will ask the other states where they have been introduced how unfounded your fears really are
There have been a lot of things seperated over the years that turned out to be wrong, women and blacks come to mind. Were we right in seperating them at one time also?

By allowing the handicapped and elderly to use a crossbow they are infact saying it's LEGAL ARCHERY GEAR it's just only allowed to them. I don't remember the state rules saying you can use this stuff but it's not legal archery gear. No it allows another form of LEGAL archery equipment to those who cannot pull back a compound, long, or recurve. Just because it's not ok for the rest of the population in your state to use them does not in it's self make crossbows illegal archery equipment.

Thats not really true, and you and I know that. Check out the guys with one arm shooting with a mouth tab or like my Dad - 70 years old and shooting a 52# Q2 and he's got more shoulder pain than most crossbow shotoers with handicap permits.

Its a cop out that G&F allows so they can't say they descriminate against handi-cap people.
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