ARGUY

ill take that 1000 dollar bet majay on the flashlight trick in hand. i perfected that in my backyard last summer when practicing i want another bow bad and dont feel like chunking out the cash so im desperate. im wanting a speed bow to tinker with. Any suggestions?

silentassassin

I'll bet you $10,000 that I can do it with a flashlight. A headlight flashlight that is. Just turn that baby sideways and wha la I can shoot my compound at night. But again, the sma can be done with a compound you just have to add an adapter to the flashlight. But as you have so evasively eluded the point I will raise it again. Bows and or crossbows don't poach, people do. If someone is going to poach then they are going to find a way to do so. So again your argument holds no merit. You guys talk about data being unwilling to listen to the other said but that can just as equally be said about you all as well. The fact is that you are willing to prevent women and children and partially disabled people from possibly entering our sport which has declined in numbers by over 1.3 million hunters in a relatively short amount of time.

datamax

MA Jay - I argued AGAINST crossbows for awhile until I was challenged to prove WHY. When I failed, I had to ask myself if I was going to continue be hard headed and believe something that was unfounded or try and understand WHY I was wrong.

A trad bow is archery the way its been for a very long time. A compound is a high tech bow using a vastly different way of achieving putting an arrow into flight - and most often is revolves around EASIER and BETTER. A crossbow ? It too is high techy anymore, and it too makes bowhunting easier. But its not unlike the compound. Both compound and crossbow are VERY much unlike a recurve/longbow.


Question away, trad shooters Know what I'm talking about.

How about this - pitch dark, you can see nothing but a lit candle at 20 yards.

Can you shoot that candle ? I can - actually pretty well. Like I said, if I can see the target, I can shoot it - at night a recurve would be the ultimate poaching bow !

silentassassin

Well that settles it. Trad equipment is a poachers weapon. We must BAN it!

datamax

silentassassin - you'd think so, wouldn't you ? They are the ultimate poachers weapon - silent, deadly, easy to hide ...... and they don't require sights ! We really need to ban together and prevent these from being in legal archery season because someone might use one to poach a deer with 9as likely as using a gun, a compound, a crossbow or whatever I imagine)

Cougar Mag

Sorry, but a PSE Edge was a pos! Last 10-12 years? LMAO!! Try since the Allen compounds or PSE and Jennings 4 wheelers! Using your misguided logic, your PSE Edge was much higher advanced. Data, seriously the scores shot today by the pros are not any better than years ago when Ragsdale was in his prime. I don't shoot any better today with a 2000 model compound bow than I did 10 years ago. In fact I killed as many or more deer when I shot fingers with 40%, 50%, or 60% letoff bows. Arthur, those figures on success are somewhat skewed...there are many more deer available today, and higher success rates are a good thing. Even though I didn't start bowhunting until 1977, the numbers of deer to hunt are nothing compared to the populations of deer today.

We all know why deer hunting has become so popular though in the last few years.......the promoting of big antlers, the progression of more access to hunting videos and tv outdoor channels, and the big $$$$$.

Now if you want to put crossbows into their own season or firearms season then fine.....I see nothing wrong with that. But a crossbow has no place in regular archery seasons.

MA Jay

Guys .. those are my words above, not yours. I agree 100% with you that guns, bows and crossbows don't Poach animals, people do!


My words again! I do think there is a place and time for crossbows. In my opinion that place and time is in the "primitive weapons season" such as they have in Pennsylvania. The crossbow certainly qualifies as a Primitive weapon. I don't believe a crossbow belongs in Archery Season, as it is not a bow, but that doesn't mean there couldn't or shouldn't be a seperate season for crossbow hunters that could overlap with ML hunters and archers. If the desire to hunt with a Crossbow is strong, they should be able to generate their own season for their unique weapon.

I am not advocating against crossbows! You asked for one negative to crossbows .. and I gave it you!!!! I made valid points, backed them up with facts and articles from state agencies on their use as a poaching weapon, as well as my own experience in their ease of use to shoot from a stand with a flashlight. I didn't claim that a bow couldn't also be abused or a gun isn't used in crimes .. but for some reason you can't accept the one simple point that a crossbow allows the average hunter, without practice or special gear to shoot deer beyond legal hunting time with just a flashlight. The average bow hunter can not do that, even though it sounds like you guys can.

If you take your passion out of it, it's simple logic... and I don't claim that it takes the responsibility out of the hands of the hunter, I just claim that it puts the average hunter in a position to break the law easily without fear of getting caught .. and it is my opinion that is not necessarily a good thing.

silentassassin

I accept it. It's just a meritless argument. All weapons have the potential to be used for poaching. That doesn't make them all poachers weapons. Crossbows maybe a easier to use for poaching but that's irrelevant becasue any weapon can be used for poaching. We have now established that trad equipment is easier to poach with than a compound (not than any of them are difficult to poach with) but again it's irrelevant and weak and certainly not a reason for consideration when deciding whether or not to legalize them. Guns are easier to kill people with than clubs are, should we outlaw them? After all it could be easier for people to committ crimes if they had a club..................[&:]

As data has pointed out, so does trad equipment. Do you think trad equipment should be legal? Trad equipment could quite possibly be the easiest of the three methods to poach with.

HuntingBry

In my state I am sure there are slobs hunting with compounds, recurves, longbows, hell I even caught a kid out in the woods with a slingshot and an arrow. The fact is I can't do anything about the ones already here, but I don't want any more out there either. Getting permission in PA is like going to a job interview anymore and I don't want to see it get any worse.

I never said there was a drastic difference in the equipment. However, here in PA and in many other states, there is a drastic difference in the perception of what is required in terms of skill and practice to hunt with a bow (compound or otherwise) and what is required (or not required as some would perceive) to hunt with a crossbow. I don't doubt that your state and many other states have had a successful integration of crossbows into archery season. I just don't think it would work as well here. Time will probably tell because it seems that is the road we are heading down.

datamax

Absolutely it was ! One of the first precision machined aluminum risers, 65% letoff, at the time a radical cam/wheel on it - it was very cutting edge and shot circles around the older bows !

Top scores - maybe not. But overall guys shoot vastly better with todays bows. See Arthur's post on success rates and how they've gone, up, up UP ! Wait, you DID see the succes rates, and you LIKE them.

So why are guys buying all the new bows and raving about how great they are if like you say - they're no more better than a precision edge ? Something don't add up Cougar ........ I think you know that.

And the compound bow makes it so easy to get into archery. You forgot to add that.

But you cannot tell me a logical/reasonable argument WHY they shouldn't be allowed. Oh, thats right, its a CAT isn't it ?

WEll duh, but the same exact point can be made on ANY legal or illegal weapon - which renders it a moot negative because it applies to EVERY WEAPON IN THE WORLD.