Coug, it's late only because that stand is so much in demand!! And after the season's over with too! Who did you order it from, by the way?

If you ever make it down as far as Carbondale, they carry Bowtechs. They fitted me up a Tech 29 to shoot, and I really liked it. Also, the shop in Mount Vernon, Ill., carries them too. That's a bit closer to you, I believe. And the shop owner there is really nice and helpful.

Sag,
Take one very large step directly LEFT!!.....That should put you out of danger of any "Light" and into a whole new fresh frame of thought!!I feel like saying sometimes....."When I snap my fingers you will wake up and you will not remember a thing" ......"You will now have an open mind"
<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Glad you are open to check out something a little different.I know that you know your stuff, and I don't think you'll be dissapointed in ANY of these bows. I think BowTech's line from top to bottom are some of the most innovative and well made bows on the market, but I understand the whole brand loyalty thing.
It's a pretty new company, and some guys see a direct threat to their trusted brands. The whole &quot;Ford vs. Chevy&quot; mentality.....I understand that as well.
BowTech is almost kind of like what happens with the Muzzy Zero Effect rest.....everyone has a bunch of questions and reservations......until they actually check them out and try one.
I think they are going to be producing some of the highest quality bows for many years to come.


TWANG.....I see all , know all. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

I will most likely hunt with my &quot;Pro38&quot; this year as well as a &quot;Mighty Mite&quot;......Heck the Pro38 could probably shoot a coal shovel at 250fps.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
You're right.....a 37.5&quot; bow is hardly a problem in a treestand. (Especially when you are 6'3&quot;<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>)

The Mighty Mite was shooting a 350gr arrow for me at 317-318fps (depending on which chrono)with a string loop......which should put it at about 320-322 bare string.
That my friend is cookin' for a 7.25&quot; brace height!

The 2 types of cams are pretty different.....but not totally.

The single &quot;Post feed&quot; cam has a pretty stiff draw cycle, snaps over pretty quick at the end thru a small valley, and into a ROCK solid wall.

The &quot;BK&quot; dual cams are pretty darn sweet.....you'll hear people say they are harsh? I don't think they are harsh, in fact I think they draw smoother than the single, they just pick up peak weight VERY early and carry it almost right thru til' the last second. The valley is VERY small, and the wall is also rock solid like the single cam.

If I blindfolded you and handed you my &quot;Pro38&quot; dual, I'd bet you'd have a hard time identifying it as a dual cam.
Your old &quot;Hatchet&quot; style dual cam this is not!......
And supposedly the cams are even nicer for this year giving them a smoother draw, a smoother break over.

I was reluctant to even TRY this bow because of my experiences with my old &quot;G-Force&quot;, &quot;Baby-G&quot;, &quot;MAchined Supreme&quot;, and various other dual cams that sounded like a .25 cal pistol when shot.
I remember scaring people out of their shoes with my &quot;G-Force&quot;!!

I had a Hoyt dealer comment about how he couldn't believe how quiet my bow was. At 65# and a 350gr. arrow going 318fps.....it was as quiet as his Darton &quot;Maverick&quot; set at 60# shooting 500gr 2613 aluminum target arrows.(By the way.....interesting that a Hoyt dealer is shooting a DARTON??<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>)

Believe me...the first time I shot my Pro38 I was AMAZED myself. I think I had a smile that wrapped around my head.

Hey Coug, while I'm thinking of it......Don't get that stand of yours JAMMED together like some guy from Missouri did.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Ask him about that someday.





Edited by - Matt / PA on 01/26/2002 21:55:58

Bow Tech holds a lot of intrigue for me. I really would like to shoot the Patriot and get a feel for their vertical force technology.

That said, I have shot a couple of bows out of the Bow Tech line at last years AMO show and have found them to give a lot more hand shock than the Mathews Q2XL. For some reason I am probably more sensitive to hand shock than most people. I also didn't find them overly quiet but again that is just my opinion.

Antler Eater...you are probably right on with your comparison to the Q2XL. Depending on what models you shot, they probably felt quite different. Especially if you shot the &quot;Extreme Solo&quot; or 2001 &quot;BKII&quot;.......The quietest of the bunch is probably the Tech29(Which is REALLY quiet)......then the Pro38 for the 2001's, but the new 2002 Patriot may be the best of them all.....it's supposed to just sit there after you shoot, they are saying almost zero recoil.....and still retaing the high speed.
I'm really curious about that one as well.

Many of their bows are now on a &quot;Pro&quot; style riser with smaller limbs and a deeper limb pocket angle to make them quieter, smoother and more stable.
I've shot the 2001 &quot;BKII&quot; for example, and can tell you that it's &quot;Night and Day&quot; compared to the 2002.

My &quot;Pro38 DC&quot; is SUPER quiet, and shock free especially for the unreal speeds I get.......It's quieter and more recoil free at 70# and a 350gr arrow than my Mathews &quot;Ultra Max&quot; was with the exact same arrow at 65#.......and that's no lie.
It's also shooting about 35 fps faster than that bow was..... Unbelievable. (And I liked that Mathews)
They really seem like a company devoted to improving as much as they can year to year.....they try to make an already good bow great, and a great bow perfect.

Remember....to really compare these bows for feel, you need to make the speed equal......Take that same arrow you used in another bow, and keep lowering the poundage on the BowTech until you reach the same speed with the same arrow as the competition......NOW shoot them head to head.
You end up with a bow that is easier to draw and hold, is probably just as quiet or more so, and is putting out the same speed.

Like I said before......it's a win/win. Less effort for the same results.




Edited by - Matt / PA on 01/26/2002 22:19:36

I just found this on another site (yes I do cheat on Huntingnet now and then [:]

This is a quote from a guy who was just at the AMO show and saw the new BowTechs.....credit to &quot;Bowjunkie&quot;
This might be of interest to some of you!

&quot;I just got back From The AMO show this evening. I was one of the first in line to shoot the Patriot and all I can say is WOOOWWWW!!! I shot the 29&quot;/60lb modle with only a arrow rest on it and it hardly moved. verry little viboration. The crono read 292 fps. all I can say is order it now and wait. It will be my next hunting Bow.

Stinkin' new house and bills, and furniture, etc.......too many bows not enough $$$!!
Maybe if I get a paper route???<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

My new 2002 Bowtect catalog lists the Patriot at 33.75&quot; ata but this guy says he shot the 29'/60lb model. Could he have ment 29&quot; draw at 60lbs? suggested retail is $699. Might need more than a paper route <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

Matt/PA, If the Patriot lives up to its billing, it is going to be one awesome piece of equipment!

I got to thinking and I just realized I have never shot the Ultra Max with the Harmonic Dampners so I can't speak with authority on how it shoots now but I did shoot the old style and I never considered them that quiet or shock free especially compared to the longer riser series bows in the Mathew's lineup.

I don't recall now which bows of the Bow Tech line I shot last year (one of the problems with getting older ), I know it wasn't the BK. The ones I shot had the Sand Trap technology but again I felt noticeably more hand shock than I thought I would (that is one of the down falls of falling for all the &quot;hype&quot; that goes on in our industry).

Your statement on making the speed equal in testing the bows sounds good, but seems quite the reverse of what I would do. As you know by the bows design it embodies certain qualities like speed, vibration, noise, etc.. So I don't think by turning the bow down until you match speeds to compare the feel, would be my preferred method. I want to feel the bow at the poundage and draw length I am going to shoot it at. After all, it is the increased performance that we're after, as long as that performance falls within the acceptable comfort or &quot;feel&quot; range. It's no big deal, that is just the way I would make a comparison for me personally.

Yes I anxiously await the day I can shoot the Patriot and I will certainly give the Pro 38 a &quot;go round&quot; too. I am kind of partial to the longer ATA bow myself.

OK Antler Eater,
If that's your preferred method, then just INCREASE the arrow weight to get the same speed. That will give you the same sort of comparison and leave everything at the specs you wish to hunt with........only now the BowTech arrow is hitting HARDER.
I'm simply saying that that energy comes at a price......sure it's not going to be as recoil free and quiet as a Q2XL right out of the box, but many of the models are blowing the doors right off the Q2XL. The Q2XL is a tough comparison to almost the entire 2001 line-up because they are VERY different.
The closest comparison to the Q2XL would be a &quot;Pro38&quot; or a &quot;Pro40&quot;.......anything else isn't really a fair comparison.

For example I wouldn't expect a good idea of all Hoyt bows if I shot my &quot;Pro38&quot; against say a Havoctec.......They should feel different, and I would expect much more recoil and shock from the little Havoctec at the same specs just because it's smaller and quite a bit lighter.......IS it fair then to say &quot;WOW, all Hoyt bows really kick compared to BowTech&quot;??
Of course not, because if I compare an UltraTec I see that they don't....and you know that.
ALL bows have recoil and shock.....you can't escape it until the day we aren't using bowstrings anymore!<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

I compared the Mathews &quot;Ultra Max&quot; to mine simply because all of the &quot;MaxCam&quot; models have always been advertised as &quot;Speed Without th Kick&quot;, and if I would have stopped at that model vs. my &quot;Pro38&quot; I would have thought........&quot;What a bunch of bull!&quot;
But I know that even though the Ultra Max has more jump and noise than my &quot;Pro38&quot;....it's not really the bow I should judge mine by.

You said that you never considered the Ultra Max that shock free when compared to the long riser series of bows that Mathews has (Q2XL etc.)........Same thing for Bowtech!!! It's just the nature of the design. <font color=red>That's also why 5 of their models for 2002 are ON long &quot;Pro&quot; series risers as compared to 2 for 2001!</font id=red>(the &quot;PATRIOT&quot; is also on this style riser with short limbs).....combined with the VFT and the Sand Traps really should be a heck of a smooth bow.

By the way......my local dealer is selling the &quot;Patriot&quot; for $619. That's a few less papers that I will have to deliver!

Edited by - Matt / PA on 01/27/2002 09:30:19

pretty much what matt/pa said.

Brian

Yippers, Matt I couldn't agree with you more, There is an obvious reason why the bows with longer risers and short angled limbs kick less.

I am not taking a shot at you or at Bow Tech I am simply stating the facts that I experienced when the opportunity came for me to shoot the product. I think I was disappointed because the previous year when I visited at length with John Strasheim and asked him what made his bow better than a Mathews, he explained that the tolerances on his bow were the best in the industry, they were the quietest, fastest, etc. etc. and in a side by side test they would put Mathews to shame. A year later I had the opportunity to do that at the Amo show. I can't address the tolerances, didn't have my micrometer on me, but in every catagory other than speed, the Mathews bows (I didn't shoot the Q2XL in the comparison) were more pleasant to shoot. Again I am just saying that for me personally that is what I found, someone else may arrive at a different conclusion.

I don't believe there was a Pro 38 in their stable at that time. As previously mentioned I look forward to shooting the Pro 38 and the Patriot. They both look like something I would like.