cougar mag, has the discussion like c903' s posts gone off topic do you think?

I come into this as a rookie hunter, but long-time fisherman... this seems to be just like trophy fishermen. People can' t enjoy outdoor events anymore (some people) unless it' s about what they bag & tag... they hype it up like it' s the pursuit of the sport, when it' s not. That' s what triggered my responses that perhaps should have been on another post, but perhaps not. This is more of that hype that makes into the magazine' s and the news and just like America has a culture (and other countries) so does hunting. And this is what' s being slowly inundated into the culture is that it' s about the trophy.

I won' t take hours of my time debunking or siding with some d00d named Zaft that I' d never heard of before this post, but I will to try and perserve the original culture of the outdoor sports.

My last post for this thread.

Raven, I will agree with you that IF the Zaft deal is bogus, and I will admit that it does seem very fishy, then he should be exposed. I remember the whole Rompola deal very well. My buddy' s and I followed it as it came out in the mags, papers etc. Same with the Noel feather fiasco. If these guys do these things then I am glad if they are exposed and I believe that they should face the ramifications. But I just can' t see letting it become a top priority in my life. And by reading alot of the posts in answer to you, I truly believe that alot of others feel the same way. It just seems that you truly take a delight in trying to dispute people. As I said , I don' t want want to see some guy get notoriety from a bogus hunting success. But not everyone out there is a bad egg. like I said before, Mike Beatty went through alot of garbage of being accused of all types of violations. I know this for a fact because my cousin is involved the the Ohio DNR, and I heard the stories from him and our local game warden. But the guy was on the up and up and went through this stuff needlessly. I just think that people see you as someone who is so quick to jump on someone elses sucess and try and disprove it. Then when someone questions your motives the name calling begins. To me it is ridiculous. I have never ever had a problem on any of these forums with anyone. And I considered biting my lip and not saying anything on this subject or the whole Big Cat conspiracy. But I finally put my .02 in like alot of others. Sorry to say it, but I stick to my original post. I just think that alot of people are truly tired of your theories. And yes you can say that if I don' t like the truth I don' t have to read it. You are right. I will admit it is entertaining!! But truthfully, it is not the big world problem right now. It seems that you have a very fragile ego, and as soon as someone disagrees with you the gloves come off. Now, you can come back again if you want and slam me or put me down, that is fine. Trust me, in has no bearing or importance on my life at all. I am not trying to be malicious with you. I am just giving my observation of being in aggreement of ALOT of others opinions on here. If you honestly , and I mean honestly, go back and read all the threads you are on and the replies, there are very few people in agreement with you. There are also very little positive exchanges between you and other members. I guess that if I stepped back and saw that between myself and others, I would start looking at the guy in the mirror. I honestly believe that there indeed alot of people who question the authenticity of the whole Zaft thing. I know that I do. But again, I think that others aren' t against questioning his situation and others like it, they just call into question your methods and why that disputing people are so important to you. That is the big issue. Not the topic, but the way you go about it.I know that I have opened myself up to your criticism and that is fine. I have no problem with that. I am a big boy and and it truly won' t affect me. But I truly think that maybe you need to step back and observe your methods and how you present your case. Then you might see why people oppose you so much. I am done now. I truly am not trying to start a war with you. Just giving another opinion. Gotta go, my wife and I have a couple of bows and some pointy sticks that need some play time!

Cougarmag, good posting. Some of the best deer stories I have ever been privy to and some of the deer I most admire (due to how hard the individual had to work at getting the job done) are about deer that wouldn' t make any book because they just didn' t have what it took rackwise. It didn' t make their deed any less worthy of recignition. My greatest acconmplishment was taking down a doe that went just under 200 pounds. Glory seekers like Zaft, irk me for a variety of reason which I' ll not bother getting into all over again. Mr. Zaft should have taken a good look at the way Beatty handled himself as well as others who have taken world class animals. In Mike' s case a World class animal was taken by a world class person. It' s not just the antler that makes a story have qualities. The person who took it should be able to stand up to certain ideals as well. Zaft did neither IMO.

bscofiled

The relevancy is like talking about fresh biscuits. Some will naturally think of gravy. They go together.

Ok, I think I' ll chime in here. Yes, the Zaft story does seem rather fishy. But reading the two different articles a few posts back, you have to remember that that one is narrarated by Zaft himself, and the other was done in third person. If you ask me, the first person version is factual. When someone else writes a story about actual events, the actual events somehow seem to change. Look at the media and the Iraqi war. I' m getting sick and tired of hearing, " Soldiers find chemical weapons dump, or facility or what-not." Mainly because they haven' t, but I' m sure that they will eventually. What I' m getting at is, you seem to have way to much time on your hands and seem totally obsessed with degrading the Zaft name. Just give it up. He shot a world class deer, he' s making money off of it, and your just jealous. Hell I' m jealous. If I shot a world class deer I' d be selling out to make some change just like anyone else. I can see that his buck will most likely not be the world record...but doesn' t it just get your goat that he' s most likely already made a couple hundred thousand dollars on this buck. Even without it being declared the new world record[:-] White-Raven dude...you need a new hobbey. You seem to spend more time investigating this Zaft controversy than you do out in the woods scouting trying to tag your own buck. You ever read the Stephen King Novel ' Misery' ? Yeaaaah...can you say Psycho?

Dang White Raven, I am you and you are me, we are one. I' m touched that there are those who think that. I guess that anytime someone makes a first post of this thread, they think that it is you trying to pull a Zaft type scam or a defense. I' m not jealous and I know that your not either of the Zaft deer. But I am deeply offended at his attempt at pulling a scam on the hunting world. It' s still just too bad that he can still make $$$ on it just by having the rack. But then of course now he is an expert deer hunter who can find world class already dead deer with nothing but a head left. Some people think that he really shot this deer, how sad. Hopefully soon he will be exposed for the bogus crap he is trying to pull and we can just say told you so and move on to real hunting efforts and stories. Give em what for WR and don' t let em get you down. If this thread is so offensive to some why do they continue to read it and post to it? Hmmmmmmmm, interesting, veeerrry interesting!!!. Where does the obsession really lie.

whiteraven raises the questions of integrity/credibility regarding Mr.Zaft.

I too have my concerns over whiteravens integrity/credibility.

whiteraven started a thread (which has been highly edited and re-addressed) requesting a poll of members to vote on the Zaft issue.

When he didn' t get the results he wanted, whiteraven changed the Thread Title.

I also find it highly disingenuous that nearly every post/reply whiteraven has logged has the following footer:

This post has been edited by whiteraven.

makes ya wannna go hhhhhhmmmmmmmn....

sort of like " edited by bowace" ?

Well I' ve read all the posts and in my opionion is that teir will always be someone their to make bogus claims that they shot a trophy animal and will try to make money on it. Thats reality deal with it and move on. White-raven to me you are taking this zaft story and making it very personal and like it was said" Obessesing over it. Do you know this guy or what?.Sounds like to me that you are jealous that you weren' t the person to find it and claim it. It' s just a observation,take it anyway you want to.But it runs deeper than just being mad that someone claims a bogus harvest.

BTpatriot, the reason I made such a big stink over Zaft is I had grave concerns over whether or not he had an legitimate claim to the WR archery title. From day one, it became rapidly apparent that Zaft was attempting to cash in on this deer. I not only have doubts he even saw the deer before being informed of it, but the whole issue of recovery left a bad taste in my mouth. Have you ever seen the original field photo? Here is this guy, Wayne Zaft, holding the head and about 3 feet of spinal cord and that' s it, grinning from ear to ear. . Nothing else was left of it. That' s some accomplishment. I belong to the P&Y organization, and I sure as hell was going to do everything in my power by getting the word out there to people regarding this affair so they can make an informed decision. I for one did not want someone like Zaft, who represents everything bad about the sport of archery, to become the number one representative of the organization I belong to. This would have damaged, perhaps forever, the credibility P&Y have. Anyone who doubts this doesn' t understand how the organization works. Because P&Y is about more than big antlers.