The Kill - Revisited .......
10-01-2008, 09:14 PM
#101
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 21,043
RE: The Kill - Revisited .......
I didn't dispute you, Rob. I asked if your current setup would go through the same bone.
The moment I start basing my BH choice on my poor shots......and start touting my BH for it's poor shot capabilites......is a sad day. Ditto the day I start blaming my BH for MY ineptness.
If I was gonna do that (pick a BH based on its poor shot capabilities).....I'd just shoot at anything "brown".....pick my head based on the worst case scenario......and hope for the best.
I've killed enough deer, now....to have seen perfect hits with both.....and not so perfect hits with both (mech's and fixed blade BH's). I picked my current BH based on my past experiences with both.
When I heara hunter exclaim he's against mechanicals....because they won't blow through bone like his fixed blades......let's just say my radar bleeps.
The moment I start basing my BH choice on my poor shots......and start touting my BH for it's poor shot capabilites......is a sad day. Ditto the day I start blaming my BH for MY ineptness.
If I was gonna do that (pick a BH based on its poor shot capabilities).....I'd just shoot at anything "brown".....pick my head based on the worst case scenario......and hope for the best.
I've killed enough deer, now....to have seen perfect hits with both.....and not so perfect hits with both (mech's and fixed blade BH's). I picked my current BH based on my past experiences with both.
When I heara hunter exclaim he's against mechanicals....because they won't blow through bone like his fixed blades......let's just say my radar bleeps.
10-01-2008, 09:18 PM
#102
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Isle, MN
Posts: 1,469
RE: The Kill - Revisited .......
i went to cabelas tonight and picked up some good ole muzzy 100 grain 3 blade heads. by the way, i've blasted through front legs too. on more occasions then i should probably admit.
rob - i hope there's no difference in them. i'll have to look through my collection. i have 90 grain, 115 grain, 125 grain, 100 grain (3 and 4 blade)...some are 12 years old.
rob - i hope there's no difference in them. i'll have to look through my collection. i have 90 grain, 115 grain, 125 grain, 100 grain (3 and 4 blade)...some are 12 years old.
10-01-2008, 09:23 PM
#103
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Hughesville, PA USA
Posts: 18,322
RE: The Kill - Revisited .......
Honestly Jeff I doubt like I said, that Snypers would have blown through that bone like that Muzzy did but I still use Snypers. Like I said too, that bear would have been just as dead and there is no reason why a broadhead needs to go through a rear femur. In my case, it's the way the bear was laying. Deer don't lay the same way as their joints don't bend the same as bears which is the same as ours.
If someone is hitting solid bone in a deer, it's poor shot placement. Judging broadheads like Rage or Snypers or others for that matter for perhaps not having that capability is hogwash. Hitting solid bone via the front leg, a person is too high, too low or too far forward or shooting at a poor shot angle and it's likely no broadhead would make that kill.
I also believe that no broadhead will make it through the spine but all of them will drop the deer by busting the spine.
All I said is I've seen a broadhead blow through a solid bone. BUT that particular outcome was irrelevant, the bear was dead regardless had the broadhead stopped at the bone or gone through it like was the case.
But there I go hijacking PT's thread. [8D]
If someone is hitting solid bone in a deer, it's poor shot placement. Judging broadheads like Rage or Snypers or others for that matter for perhaps not having that capability is hogwash. Hitting solid bone via the front leg, a person is too high, too low or too far forward or shooting at a poor shot angle and it's likely no broadhead would make that kill.
I also believe that no broadhead will make it through the spine but all of them will drop the deer by busting the spine.
All I said is I've seen a broadhead blow through a solid bone. BUT that particular outcome was irrelevant, the bear was dead regardless had the broadhead stopped at the bone or gone through it like was the case.
But there I go hijacking PT's thread. [8D]
10-01-2008, 09:34 PM
#104
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dover, PA USA
Posts: 5,497
RE: The Kill - Revisited .......
That's a kick ass graphic!
And clearly illustrates what you just said about evaluating a broadhead for bone crushing as hogwash.
There is one small obstacle that is bone that would need 'Smashed" and its the shoulder blade ..........if you're hitting that you're taking a shot you probably shouldn't be and the percentage of body mass that that single bone covers and the amount of vitals it covers is so small compared to the rest of the animal that like I always say.........I'll take the most damage I can inflict with the set up I am using. Bone be damned. It means nothing to me.
I've shot going on 50 deer in my life and NOT ONE in the shoulder blade. Not a single one..........but I sure have hit a few in the liver, liver one lung etc through the natural movement of an animal. You aim at the vitals, and they don't typically move BACKWARDS>
And clearly illustrates what you just said about evaluating a broadhead for bone crushing as hogwash.
There is one small obstacle that is bone that would need 'Smashed" and its the shoulder blade ..........if you're hitting that you're taking a shot you probably shouldn't be and the percentage of body mass that that single bone covers and the amount of vitals it covers is so small compared to the rest of the animal that like I always say.........I'll take the most damage I can inflict with the set up I am using. Bone be damned. It means nothing to me.
I've shot going on 50 deer in my life and NOT ONE in the shoulder blade. Not a single one..........but I sure have hit a few in the liver, liver one lung etc through the natural movement of an animal. You aim at the vitals, and they don't typically move BACKWARDS>
10-01-2008, 09:38 PM
#105
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Hughesville, PA USA
Posts: 18,322
RE: The Kill - Revisited .......
That's a kick ass graphic!
http://www.fallingpixel.com/product.php/5484
And many more.
10-01-2008, 09:42 PM
#107
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dover, PA USA
Posts: 5,497
RE: The Kill - Revisited .......
The only thing I think they have a bit wrong is the height of the esopahgus, windpipe and the major vessels alongside (corotid artery and jugular vein) I think these ride lower as they enter the body.
I've taken out windpipes from a deer's neck and they dont' sit that deep..........and I've seen some of Frank's patented low neck shots that hit that artery and they aren't where they show in the graphic. LOL
I've taken out windpipes from a deer's neck and they dont' sit that deep..........and I've seen some of Frank's patented low neck shots that hit that artery and they aren't where they show in the graphic. LOL
10-01-2008, 09:48 PM
#109
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Hughesville, PA USA
Posts: 18,322
RE: The Kill - Revisited .......
ORIGINAL: Matt / PA
The only thing I think they have a bit wrong is the height of the esopahgus, windpipe and the major vessels alongside (corotid artery and jugular vein) I think these ride lower as they enter the body.
I've taken out windpipes from a deer's neck and they dont' sit that deep..........and I've seen some of Frank's patented low neck shots that hit that artery and they aren't where they show in the graphic. LOL
The only thing I think they have a bit wrong is the height of the esopahgus, windpipe and the major vessels alongside (corotid artery and jugular vein) I think these ride lower as they enter the body.
I've taken out windpipes from a deer's neck and they dont' sit that deep..........and I've seen some of Frank's patented low neck shots that hit that artery and they aren't where they show in the graphic. LOL
Here's another one I found and added.
And this one, shows the more realistic esophagus.
10-01-2008, 09:49 PM
#110
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central Minnesota
Posts: 9,445
RE: The Kill - Revisited .......
ORIGINAL: Rob/PA Bowyer
I believe that too with the former Muzzy's but I really have to question the same heads today. I think they've cheapened their product but hell, what do I know I've only bowhunted for nearly 30 years using Muzzy's for probably 20 of them.
ORIGINAL: Schultzy
I'm not trying to say one BH Is better then the other here but I gotta agree with Rob here. I've seen It myself where Muzzy's have broken the front leg (not the knuckle) of a few different doe's. It's no lie either!! I seen It with my own eye's when we found the deer. Muzzy's are known for this. The hard sharpened chisel point on them Is really something else If they hit the bone perfect.
ORIGINAL: Rob/PA Bowyer
I know exactly because there was a perfect 3 blade Muzzy hole through the leg, the broadhead stopped under the hide of the rear ham where it shattered on the rock the bear was laying against. Doesn't matter to me if the Muzzy broke it or the bear broke it because it still stands true that the broadhead went through it solid dead center. (We deboned the meat and I purposely showed this to the outfitter as he was not a fan of bows). I should have kept the bone as a keep sake.
I know exactly because there was a perfect 3 blade Muzzy hole through the leg, the broadhead stopped under the hide of the rear ham where it shattered on the rock the bear was laying against. Doesn't matter to me if the Muzzy broke it or the bear broke it because it still stands true that the broadhead went through it solid dead center. (We deboned the meat and I purposely showed this to the outfitter as he was not a fan of bows). I should have kept the bone as a keep sake.