The Kill - Revisited .......
10-01-2008 | 07:37 PM
#81
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Giant Nontypical
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From: Heaven is my home, temporarily residing in WNY :)
RE: The Kill - Revisited .......
ORIGINAL: PatrickMc
Tony, I think you and I are on the same page here. You take an animal to eat it, as do it. You don't do it maliciously, nor do I. I don't have a problem with taking the life of an animal in order to eat it. My beef is with the people who kill an animal for the sake of killing something and then try to pass themselves off as hunters. I consider myself a hunter, as I consider you a fellow hunter. I believe that you hunt for the meat and the gratification of the experience. Taking pride in an accomplishment of what was taken is just a bonus, I don't mean that you can't celebrate or enjoy your successes. I know in all actuality we do kill every animal we take, but I just think that us real hunters kill an animal to harvest the meat, not just kill to kill.
I have read a lot of your posts Tony and I think you have a lot of good insight, I don't mean to offend you in any way. As for the politically correct thing...working for government will do that to you. lol.
Tony, I think you and I are on the same page here. You take an animal to eat it, as do it. You don't do it maliciously, nor do I. I don't have a problem with taking the life of an animal in order to eat it. My beef is with the people who kill an animal for the sake of killing something and then try to pass themselves off as hunters. I consider myself a hunter, as I consider you a fellow hunter. I believe that you hunt for the meat and the gratification of the experience. Taking pride in an accomplishment of what was taken is just a bonus, I don't mean that you can't celebrate or enjoy your successes. I know in all actuality we do kill every animal we take, but I just think that us real hunters kill an animal to harvest the meat, not just kill to kill.
I have read a lot of your posts Tony and I think you have a lot of good insight, I don't mean to offend you in any way. As for the politically correct thing...working for government will do that to you. lol.
10-01-2008 | 07:54 PM
#82
Dominant Buck
Joined: Oct 2005
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RE: The Kill - Revisited .......
You are dead wrong on that. I have taken out BOTH shoulders on a buck with a Muzzy.Dropped him on his nose. I have gone through the shoulder on others for a kill. I have abuddy that hasblown through shoulders with a fixed blade also.All this on large midwestern deer.Shoot at enough deer and someday it is going to happen. When it does, I would take a smaller fixed blade over any large mechanical EVERY time. I have tried both. Any head through the lungs will kill. Not every head on marginal hits will.IF you ever shoot as many deer as some on this board have, you will stop the snide comments about shot placement, because it will happen to you too.
I've only killed 16 with my bow.....and yeah...I've had a few bad hits, too. But I've never hit a bone with a mechanical that a fixed BH would have "blown through". Not once. In fact....the only bone I've hit (other than a rib) is eitherthat rib bone or an off-side leg. I've spinedtwo, also.....and there isn't a BH out there to go through a deer's spine. In the case of the ribs....."butter". In the case of the off side leg bone.....again....NO BH is gonna penetrate hard bone. Not one.
Nothing "snide" about my comments. It's a known fact. Hit a bone.....and you're not going to penetrate too far. Hit a bone....and you've made a bad shot. And yeah....I've had my share of bad shots. Luckily.....most have worked out, though.
10-01-2008 | 07:58 PM
#83
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2006
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RE: The Kill - Revisited .......
Absolutely no offence taken ..... and your right...we feel the same way...I am just a little more "in your face" ...being a preacher can do that to you
Preachers are not suppose to kill.J/KSeriously though, I think the killing part of hunting gets way too much attention. I like the hunt as much or more, than the kill. The kill has to be done for the meat.(Never could eat horns, give me gas) The hunt is done for the game of it all.
That said, "Rage Sucks".[:'(]
Where are the broadhead ballistic penetration tests when you need 'em? Right Jeffro?
LT
10-01-2008 | 08:00 PM
#84
Boone & Crockett
Joined: Oct 1998
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From: Hughesville, PA USA
RE: The Kill - Revisited .......
ORIGINAL: GMMAT
You mean that cartilage bladed shoulder? Mince meat for ANY BH.
I've only killed 16 with my bow.....and yeah...I've had a few bad hits, too. But I've never hit a bone with a mechanical that a fixed BH would have "blown through". Not once. In fact....the only bone I've hit (other than a rib) is eitherthat rib bone or an off-side leg. I've spinedtwo, also.....and there isn't a BH out there to go through a deer's spine. In the case of the ribs....."butter". In the case of the off side leg bone.....again....NO BH is gonna penetrate hard bone. Not one.
Nothing "snide" about my comments. It's a known fact. Hit a bone.....and you're not going to penetrate too far. Hit a bone....and you've made a bad shot. And yeah....I've had my share of bad shots. Luckily.....most have worked out, though.
You are dead wrong on that. I have taken out BOTH shoulders on a buck with a Muzzy.Dropped him on his nose. I have gone through the shoulder on others for a kill. I have abuddy that hasblown through shoulders with a fixed blade also.All this on large midwestern deer.Shoot at enough deer and someday it is going to happen. When it does, I would take a smaller fixed blade over any large mechanical EVERY time. I have tried both. Any head through the lungs will kill. Not every head on marginal hits will.IF you ever shoot as many deer as some on this board have, you will stop the snide comments about shot placement, because it will happen to you too.
I've only killed 16 with my bow.....and yeah...I've had a few bad hits, too. But I've never hit a bone with a mechanical that a fixed BH would have "blown through". Not once. In fact....the only bone I've hit (other than a rib) is eitherthat rib bone or an off-side leg. I've spinedtwo, also.....and there isn't a BH out there to go through a deer's spine. In the case of the ribs....."butter". In the case of the off side leg bone.....again....NO BH is gonna penetrate hard bone. Not one.
Nothing "snide" about my comments. It's a known fact. Hit a bone.....and you're not going to penetrate too far. Hit a bone....and you've made a bad shot. And yeah....I've had my share of bad shots. Luckily.....most have worked out, though.
10-01-2008 | 08:10 PM
#85
Dominant Buck
Joined: Oct 2005
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From:
RE: The Kill - Revisited .......
Out of your setup......with your current BH.....would you expect anything different?
If I shot 250fps .....I wouldn't shoot the head I do. If I wasn't pushing 70+Fp's/KE I wouldn't shoot it.
Rob I'm not disputing the bear's leg was broken. But your BH blew through it? interesting.
I broke my leg by jumping on it wrong. Any chance your BH hit the bone and the bear did the rest of the damage when he bolted? How would one ever know?
If I shot 250fps .....I wouldn't shoot the head I do. If I wasn't pushing 70+Fp's/KE I wouldn't shoot it.
Rob I'm not disputing the bear's leg was broken. But your BH blew through it? interesting.
I broke my leg by jumping on it wrong. Any chance your BH hit the bone and the bear did the rest of the damage when he bolted? How would one ever know?
10-01-2008 | 08:11 PM
#86
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Giant Nontypical
Joined: Dec 2006
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From: Heaven is my home, temporarily residing in WNY :)
RE: The Kill - Revisited .......
ORIGINAL: LouisianaTomkat
Stop stereotyping yourself PT. You just said you liked to kill. Preachers are not suppose to kill.J/K
Absolutely no offence taken ..... and your right...we feel the same way...I am just a little more "in your face" ...being a preacher can do that to you
Preachers are not suppose to kill.J/K
Seriously though, I think the killing part of hunting gets way too much attention. I like the hunt as much or more, than the kill. The kill has to be done for the meat.(Never could eat horns, give me gas) The hunt is done for the game of it all.
10-01-2008 | 08:14 PM
#88
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Wilmington NC
RE: The Kill - Revisited .......
ORIGINAL: RackLuster
gmmat - my point was, for a marginal shot (they do happen, even to you) rage may not the best option. yes, they blow the deer wide open when you hit the rib cage. But any head is going to do the job in those cases. my concern is that rage may underperform on marginal shots.
blaming me and saying i need to practice more - is a cop out.
marginal shots happen to the best of us. if they haven't happened to someone yet, then they haven't hunted long enough. i believe 100% that if i was using my old muzzy broadhead the arrow would have penetrated through the bone and out the other side of the deer. creating a much better blood trail then the rage did.
i don't mean to cause an argument. I'm simply saying that it's not all about the size of the entrance hole for me. cripes - the last thing i want to do is start another rage argument. that's a dead horse that needs to be left alone
ORIGINAL: GMMAT
I think I'd just spend more spare time practicing my shooting. Blaming the BH (BH choice is unimportant for this exercise) is a cop out.
I don't admit it. [:-] I've used rage broadheads the last two years and i am not impressed.
yes, they make a huge entrance hole but it does you no good when the deer is hit high and there's no exit hole. I much prefer a broadhead that will blast through the bone (and come out the other side).
It happened to me last night. i hit a doe high in the shoulder with muzzy 2 blade. not a good shot, but my penetration was absolutely, flat out terrible. I've had muzzy's blow through shoulders at 170 fps, now i shoot 270 fps and I can't? When that deer was running away I thought the arrow was going to fall out, that's how little of it penetrated. i'm going back to muzzy.
I had a hard time recovering 2 of the 3 deer i've shot with rage.
yes, they make a huge entrance hole but it does you no good when the deer is hit high and there's no exit hole. I much prefer a broadhead that will blast through the bone (and come out the other side).
It happened to me last night. i hit a doe high in the shoulder with muzzy 2 blade. not a good shot, but my penetration was absolutely, flat out terrible. I've had muzzy's blow through shoulders at 170 fps, now i shoot 270 fps and I can't? When that deer was running away I thought the arrow was going to fall out, that's how little of it penetrated. i'm going back to muzzy.
I had a hard time recovering 2 of the 3 deer i've shot with rage.
Blaming the BH (BH choice is unimportant for this exercise) is a cop out.
) rage may not the best option. yes, they blow the deer wide open when you hit the rib cage. But any head is going to do the job in those cases. my concern is that rage may underperform on marginal shots.blaming me and saying i need to practice more - is a cop out.
marginal shots happen to the best of us. if they haven't happened to someone yet, then they haven't hunted long enough. i believe 100% that if i was using my old muzzy broadhead the arrow would have penetrated through the bone and out the other side of the deer. creating a much better blood trail then the rage did.
i don't mean to cause an argument. I'm simply saying that it's not all about the size of the entrance hole for me. cripes - the last thing i want to do is start another rage argument. that's a dead horse that needs to be left alone
, was that the broadheads fault......Nope mine
10-01-2008 | 08:14 PM
#89
Dominant Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,199
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From: Blossvale, New York
RE: The Kill - Revisited .......
Me personnally, I love to hear the TWACK. It's just a comforting feeling that comes over me when I hear TWACK. All is well in the universe. Survey your terrain and the scene and just replay it in your head.... TWACK>>> TWACK..... TWACK. Nothing like it. I can't get all wrapped up in the hype of this broadhead or that broadhead. There are so many that do the job. And all of them say TWACK.
I can't get all wrapped up in the hype of this broadhead or that broadhead. There are so many that do the job. And all of them say TWACK.
10-01-2008 | 08:16 PM
#90
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Giant Nontypical
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From: Heaven is my home, temporarily residing in WNY :)
RE: The Kill - Revisited .......
ORIGINAL: TEmbry
Why no takers? Why not tote this bow...
rather than this one...
ORIGINAL: TEmbry
if it doesnthave anythingto do with the killing, then why take a weapon in the first place?
if it doesnthave anythingto do with the killing, then why take a weapon in the first place?
rather than this one...
