RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
 

I'll 2nd that one LT!!

Bigcountry, you and Shadow are pretty much saying the same things but in a different language. You both are good guys, let it go.

RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
 

"I think part of it, come from growing in up Eastern Ky for me. Killing animals was no big deal. We had farms around us, you butchered the animals, you eat the animals. Everybody hunted, everybody killed deer. You thanked God for it after the kill, you eat.Then a whole crop of metrosexual hunters came to the scene from the cities. They had to make it into a magical, spirit of the wild adventure. Or in my words, new age fufu crap."

What about a merging of your thoughts...maybe some people thank God each time by recognizing the grace and beauty of the animals they kill? Your experience growing up is just that, yours. "Metrosexual" hunters...real nice from a God fearing man. So what is it to you if people having a different understanding of the woods and their place in it? How does that affect you, or are you really that self-righteous?

"Well, you keep on being one with the tree. You know what they way about opinions. Everyone's got em"

I will big, I will. I will also be one with God via being one with his beautiful creations. If you want to call that new age fufu crap, then so be it.

RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
 

Goodness, you are one sensitive feller.:D Your the one who posted to me. So what is it to me that you that you want to be one in the woods? Nothing, have at it.Go crazy with it.:D You posted asking me questions. Not the other way around. I never asked you anything. Now, its, "are you self righteous". What does this have to do with anything in the post??? I mean your really going off on some wierd new age tangent here.

RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
 

Wrong again. The question was possed by GMMAT. I gave him my opinion. You made a wild assed statement out of context and I called you on it. GMMAT as usual stuck up for you. I pointed out his error in not reading what was said. You jumped in and I pointed out YOUR errror. Where did I interrupt a conversation. I'm just pointing out slams with no context. This is not YOUR's and GMMAT's personnal forum. It's the same old Groupie thing. If you catch someone putting out crap or slamming someone for something they didn't say... you get Groupieized. You're wrong... Jeff was wrong and your only recourse was to slam me and have the group chime in with be nice to old folks. The brain still works. Give it up. I can read and understand what's written. Some folks should read what the write before they push the OK button. You seem to have taken it upon yourself to be the EXPERT in everything when you've actually had little experience at it.

RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
 

No, absolutely not. High fence hunting is basically buying a deer. It is not hunthing. Go ahead and hate me for saying that if you really want to but it is the truth and I speak the truth. I like the Fred Bear song at the end when Fred is speaking about if they really want to go and get a thrill. Find an area where there is not all that much pressure for you and your son to explore that has a better than average chance of killing deer, they are out there. I found one myself but I am not sharing. [8D]

Good luck

RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
 

Jeff

Let's make sure I am getting this right. You might take your son to a 200 acrehigh fenced huntin a big buck state???

Dude... you are taking this... "It's all about location" way too serious ?????? [8D][8D][8D] ;););):D:D:D:D:D:D

Sorry, I couldn't resist. What ever youand your son decide... I hope it works outs for the best.

Tim

RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
 

Very bad idea.

I've said it 10000 times and I will say it again. I think that all forms of high fence hunting should be banned. There is not one single way that hunting animals in cages helps the image of TRUE hunting.

RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
 

this topic got way out of hand

RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
 

Just a quick response, valor....because I feel the need to educate you. My son knows what I put into this. He watches me live it (through my yearly efforts and seasonal regiments). He understands scouting (insomuch as we "have" to, here....knowing the herd as we do). He understands hunting. He's my son;). To even question "ethics" is kinda out of line, IMO. We work hard and sent him to Christian school (private) until HE wanted to go to the public HS. His choice. His ethics (and mine) are beyond reproach. I think the board would back me on that assertion. if this type endeavor isn't your cup of tea, fine. But I'd rather ethics be left out of this. It doesn't apply. And...our father/son bond is wonderful. My heart is full.;)

Dan...Apprciate those words. We fish, shoot, shoot skeet, and bond, regularly. This is just (possibly) "an" avenue we haven't explored. It would simply be a way to (again, "possibly") enhance our bonding....not define it.

RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
 

LOL!!!!!!!!!! David....."ME"...sticking up for BC????

Dang, BC....I'm sure you'd find that hilarious, too!:D

Seriously, David....if you'll go back and read it, agian....with an open mind.....that quote you cited....it was BC speaking to ME. I was joking about the "nevermind" stuff, HONESTLY. If you read it in that context....ALL he was saying is....if any of you guys did a high fence hunt...."I" would have nothing bad to say to you about it. I'd have my opinion of what "I" thought it would or wouldn't mean to ME....but I won't project that onto what YOU might or might not take from the experience.

If I interpreted that wrong or said anything BC doesn't agree with.....I would hope he'd set me straight.

And I have the UTMOST respect for you, David. Always have. We butt heads from time to time...but I've also gotten your back when I saw others WEREN'T giving you the respect you deserve....as a veteran, a good husband, a patriot and someone who's beena round the woodlots a few times. Respect.

RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
 

i do not think a 3000 to 5000 acre fence ranch would be a issue to me to me. when you on 5000 acres you still have to hunt. i think the fence is there to keep the good deer in the bad out.

RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
 

I think if that is all true you should give him some room.
When i started hunting at 18 i did not worry so much about scent control. got a little better my second year and last year i became anal about it.
you should let him have some room to do it how he wan
t we all need to learn the hard way on somethings
give him some of his own stand tell him to find a spot he likes hang them and hunt how he wants.

RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
 

hey you could put a feeder anywhere and deer will show up when it goes off thats why they call it baiting and thats why people spend 1000s on feeders.
i have also seen my fair high fence shows where thet hunt a clover feed no corn or any bait and they kill a deer just like you or me

RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
 

Yep, and I gave him my opinion. Same as you.

No, your dead wrong. I wrote something to Jeff, that he clearly understands. And clearly, you do not. He has pointed it out to you twice, and you still don't understand. Don't worry dave, I have lived in MD for 10 years. And it happens all the time. Just different cultures.


No, your free to post, but don't expect everyone to hide and not post back when your dead wrong and its pointed out to you by me and the person I was talking too.

Honsestly David, your post to me and him really doesn't make sense. Litterly whatsoever. So again, what am I am an expert on and have very little experience with??? With an opinion on high fense hunting???? How many times do I have to high fense hunt to decide I hate it do not like it and give my opinion???

RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
 

Jeff, I haven't read all of the posts due to time restrictions(work and sleep related). Anyways here is my response: I agree that he should make the decision but based on what I have gone through with my son, I seriously doubt that the fenced hunt will ignite the "fire" anymore so than a regular hunt. Now I say this based on what I know about my son and our experiences together. Of course your son and mine may think differently. All I know is this..........it took several years for the fire to be kindled in my son, he is now 26 and shows much more enthusiasm for hunting now than when he was younger. He was also into the "dear" instead of the "deer" along with being involved into athletics.

RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
 

Thanks, Coug....but I'm not even sure the above would (or should, even) matter to ME, or not. If he chooses to do it and it still doesn't ignite his fire.....and he is content with just that expereince......who got hurt?;)

RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
 

Wonderwhy some on here refer to it as a high fenced "hunt"???

RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
 

And I wonder why people think it's OK to saw the antlers off of a wild elk .....to make him less desireable to hunters.

To each their own, I guess.

RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
 

So has 18 pages of back and forth bickering helped you with your decision...LOL

RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
 

MC...I made my decision a long time ago....lol.

The opinions are "interesting reading", though;)

RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
 

I hear ya...LOL
I think you should go. What the heck.
Good bonding!

RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
 

I would guess with thatPARTICULAR Elk, it would be to improve fair chase. Much unlike the caged critters.

I'd say though that horn porn is involved in both scenarios, just differently.

RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
 

Let me get this straight.....lol...

Is that elk not being hunted "fair chase"?

The main topic of this thread is an afterthought. I'm NOW curious about this issue.:)

RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
 

Utah elk?

RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
 

Yes, Schultzy.

RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
 

How does removing the elk's antlers make hunting it any more or less fair chase?

This ought to be interesting...

RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
 

Badger....I'm with you. I just wanna know how some human minds think (their "logic").

Sawing off an elk's antlers is "OK". Putting a case of doughnuts in a barrel and then shooting a bear that comes to eat themis "OK"....but hunting in a high fence "isn't"????

RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
 

I think what hillbilly is saying is that everyone and there cousin knows about this particular elk in Utah including a bunch of outfitters. Some say it would be better to cut his antlers and give the elk a chance being no one would recognize him. I could be wrong but I think thats the story behind that elk.

RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
 

i think that it could possibly mess up his expectations or hunting...he goes out in a high fence and sees piles of deer and probably a couple BIG bucks and will likely get a shot at a BIG buck...all this in a days of hunting...then he goes back home and never sees a buck like that again...

to me, thats spoiling the kids(i always feel bad for the 12yo on TV that whacks a 160" beast..) they just dont realize what that means and what work goes into killing a deer like that in the wild...they just dont get it...dont appriciate it..and will likely look at hunting differently...kids are much more likely to enjoy hunting where there is action and chances to shoot and kill stuff...

my advice, hes 16...i believe i was able to think and talk by that age...ask him his opinion on the matter explain your feelings, expain the differences between fair chase and high fence etc etc and let him decide...sounds to me like he isnt much interested in hunting right now...face it..not too many 16yos theses days are...the ones that are are usually born and raised hunters..

also, offer take him small game hunting, water fowl, dove, something where you can shoot alot and see alot of game...have a ball...THAT might hook him...i can get anyone to go small game hunting where we will burn a pile of shells in an afternoon and have a great time talkin and BSing and being guys....but i tell someone i'll be at the farm at 0400hrs to go sit in the deer stand and its 12 degrees and snowing out and chances are pretty good that we wont see much of anything let alone a good buck and noone wants to come...

different strokes for different folks...i know when i was starting out it took me a year or 2 to "get it" and understand that theres more to hunting than shooting and killing...i still enjoy the shooting and bringing home game...but i caught on quickly that maybe dad and i didnt bring home a turkey that day...but the hour ride there, the half hour hike back in, the hike out, lunch, the ride home...we had fun...we saw some cool stuff..we talked about life..we came up with game plans and strategies...dad let me practice calling...we saw a fox and i never saw a fox before...we saw a fawn from 3 feet away...dad told a REAL funny joke...it just didnt take me long to "get it"now i enjoy the peace and quiet and relaxation i get etc etc...some people NEVER 'get it' its not for everyone....and hunting is something different for everyone...just because i enjoy sunrises doesnt mean EVERY hunter will appriciate a sunrise like i do...

RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
 

Thanks, Mauser....that was a good read.

I wonder how everyone's take on that big elk would change if it was a world record deer? An albino (legal) 12-point buck?

RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
 

http://www.mossback.com/


Here is the elk in question. Obviously these mossback guys feel like they have him in the bag already as he's all over there website.


Let's get it straight so everyone can see what I'm talking about:

This according to everything I've heard is a wild elk on public land.....so, is it "fair chase"??

Technically, how could anyone say no? I said to "improve fair chase".

From what I've gathered from some Utah boys, and it seems very reasonable,this ol' boy has a whole army of guides/outfitters camped out on him every day...just waiting for the season to start.

Again, is this fair chase??? We could get into a whole 'nother descussion (which used to go dozens of pages around here regarding the use of guides and stuff...not that I'm personally against them).

Still it would be hard to say this is not "fair chase"

All that being said, just does not seem very sporting. I'd personally like to see him break half his antlers off, but I doubt it. However that would probably only solve the problem until next year. Probably the best thing that could happen would be for the state of Utah to dart and transplant him to anther wilderness area.

Is it fair chase??Technically yes. Is it sporting??? You decide. I say no.

RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
 

I only read the initial post but here is my response to that only -

Fencing animals is anti-hunting

www.m-w.com

anti means opposed to, opposite to, and fencing takes away a big part of what hunting is. WHY are the fences there? WHY are the animals stocked/bred/fed like they are ?

we all know the reason GMAT - to take much of the "hunt" out of hunting, to make the kill almost guaranteed or in most cases for sure guaranteed, to remove everything that is pre-hunting that you should be doing with your son, to make the kill bigger horns, more exotic ..... especially the small fenced places that are shoot and kills.


if you want to teach your son that, thats your choice and animals are here for us to use. take him there, let him kill an animal, eat it ..... but there is no hunting there, you've taught him NOTHING about hunting as a sport, as a heritage.

instead what you've taught him is that money and high fences can bypass hard work and the time/effort that really is suppose to go into hunting.


you can argue you want him to become interested in hunting more, the have success blah blah blah all you want to, but bottom line, you can't shortcut hunting, you can't take most of what hunting is OUT and still call it hunting.

[:o]

RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
 

this attitude really gets me - the whole "you decide" thing

it aint about personal decisions and personal choice - its not. its about what is and isn't hunting, because you will NEVER separate fenced shooting and hunting in the eyes of non-hunters - EVER

hey if people want to dog fight, they decide, right?
hey, if people want to beat their wives, their choice, right?
child porn? awe if they want to - right?

we draw lines in life EVERY DAY on what is and isn't right and your obligated to do that as a person, as a US citizen, even as a Christian.

ya'll stand up for (against) many many things in life, but your passion of hunting you'll stand aside and let it be bastardized into a horn porn blood sport ?



Animal Rights Activists are right you know - a lot of people, more than I ever imagined, are just in it for the kill [:o]

RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
 

The argument can be made (and sometimes IS) that the fence is there to protect the investor's investment from poachers (read: anti-hunting;)).

So people can charge money to other people who find them desireable?

Illegal = Bad analogy.

Illegal = Bad analogy.

Illegal = Bad analogy

And the line greys from person to person (i.e. HF, Baiting, Baiting certain animals, etc...). The law, doesn't.

High fence hunting isn't the sole cause of this.

Between you and I....here's where we find common ground. My talks would not be about the Red Sox or the latest Bruce Willis movie. Give me a "little";)credit.

RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
 

god help me my head hurts i thought the girls i went to high school with where bad.
come on guys your shooting a dead deer to death.

RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
 

bingo why is it ok to bait a deer with corn cemeere deer. and not do so with in a 5000 acre fenced area.
In a 5000 acre area not sure how the fence would matter.
I would not hunt where i was sitting on a feeder waiting for it to go off. with a cup of hot choclate and a TV.
i keep coming back to the king of the hill eps. where hank takes bobby to a fence opt. and they leave when they figure it is not hunting.

Now i would hunt a place where they had 5000 acres used a fence to do the best they can to keep deer with good genetics in and deer with bad genetics out.



So people can charge money to other people who find them desireable?

RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
 

Those fences are there to insure that the person "hunting" has a stacked decked to shoot something. Fences are not there to protect against poaching - who're you trying to kid ? If they REALLY were, make them 6' - the deer can jump that, poachers still stay out - .... but no, they're made escape proof and for a reason.


that's fine, go shoot a angus bull or a quarter horse for all I care - do NOT call it hunting, because it isn't

canned hunting is illegal - good analogy because the two are hard to argue/distinguish (fenced hunting vs small fenced are hunting)



whatever people want to do, right ?



laws change - abortion is legal but very few people think its right. prostitution is legal, drug use is legal, you can go across the globe and find things that are legal that will make you PUKE -

what is good, and right, ethical and moral ... those things have solid bases



its becoming that way FAST - its all a part of horn porn and the selfishness to kill the biggest horns at any cost



then why would you even consider it ?




bigtim6656 its one of the biggest issues that the heritage of hunting has ever faced.




if it doesn't matter - take down the fence



why would genetics matter ? why a fenced area ?


ahhhhhhh so you can be more guaranteed to kill a big racked buck - horn porn, selfish "look at the big rack I killed" kinda thing huh ?

the world's biggest bucks from Jordan to Zaft to Johnson to the Hole in the Horn and MN Monarch .... they were pretty good genetics and didn't have fences ...




and it aint hunting - ever

RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
 

RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
 

My take is that if you have doubts about it I dont think you should do it. Clearly your having doubts because this post. What eveyone has said in this post is thier opinion. We can give you our opinion but it will be you that will have to make the choice. This is my opinion, I dont think it will make as good of a hunting story as oppsed to a real hunt. For example, "Thats a nice deer you got there" "Ya got him in one of those high fence hunting areas, only place I can get a real deer."

Just my own $.02

RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
 

who are you to say what is moral right ethical or good. heck one day having black slaves was the right thing moral and ok. but not know.
Morals and wether or not something is ethical is someone opionon.
i have issues of high fence hunting. but i am not going to look down on someone doing it.

laws change - abortion is legal but very few people think its right. prostitution is legal, drug use is legal, you can go across the globe and find things that are legal that will make you PUKE -

what is good, and right, ethical and moral ... those things have solid bases