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High Fence - Real Life Scenario
No. This isn't a re-hash of my dilemma, last year.
I JUST got a call from one of my clients. He runs a high fence operation in OH. He, again, offered me a free hunt.....and a chance to take a 150 class animal. I reiterated my reluctance.....but thought about my son. He said "OK". I told him I would only film, if we decided to come up. So....little history.... My son is 16.....and last season he hunted 0 times for deer. He did take his bow out for turkeys, this year, and even had some close encounters. He shoots "some"......but loves it. He's just had the DEAR on his mind and not the DEER. So what do I do? Off the top of my head.....I want him to take a deer, here, with his bow, first. Another part of me thinks such a hunt "might" just be the kick-start he needs to get super interested (he's interested...and has taken a deer with his rifle in the past. He's not "super" interested). Would this be OK? Would it be teaching him a bad lesson? I'd love to hear your thoughts. You all helped me with my decision, last year....and I thank you for it. |
RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
I remember this from last year. I don't remember how many acres the place is though?
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RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
Jeff, if you are opposed to hunting in that manner for yourself what kind of message is it giving your son if you say it's OK for him to do it?
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RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
I can't think of a worst case scenario thantaking your first bow buck behind a fence.:eek:
Just not the sort of thing memories are made of. |
RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
I would think that taking a high fenced trophy buck with little effort might set the bar pretty high in terms of his expectations for future hunts.
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RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
Personally I wouldn't do it Jeff. In reality the kid is a grown man and doesn't need something like this to be handed to him the easy way. Let him make his decision on hunting at home. If he wants to hunt bad enough, he'll do it around home. In my honest opinion he has to make the decision if he wants to hunt, dad should do nothing to force it upon him (specially a high fence set up).
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RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
ORIGINAL: Lanse couche couche I would think that taking a high fenced trophy buck with little effort might set the bar pretty high in terms of his expectations for future hunts. |
RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
ORIGINAL: Lanse couche couche I would think that taking a high fenced trophy buck with little effort might set the bar pretty high in terms of his expectations for future hunts. |
RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
Jeff, if you are opposed to hunting in that manner for yourself what kind of message is it giving your son if you say it's OK for him to do it? Lots of folks DON'T have a problem with this type of a hunt. Don't think we wouldn't have some serious talks before we went if we do decide to do it, though. I have to wonder if it might teach him MORE to go on the hunt. It might make for an interesting ride home.......and the conversations. He's 16.....and I'd get to spend the time going there and back with him. I'd get to spend the tree time with him. I'd get to experince the "thrill" (maybe?) with him. I'd get to give him the $$ for the mount.....that gift. He's getting old enough to have these type conversations and discuss EVERYTHING involved. I think I could bring it up while watching something similar on TV.....and feel him out......without revealing the scenario. There are positives, too. They "might" outweigh the negatives. I just don't know, yet. That's why I'm here, asking. |
RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
I didn't know Jeff was "against" it ... I always thought he said, "not for me" .... big difference ...
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RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
Hunting may not be "to him"...what it is "to me".
I wouldn't hold that against him......ever. **Edit** I just saw your post, PT...... Thanks for those words.;) That is correct. |
RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
ORIGINAL: GMMAT Jeff, if you are opposed to hunting in that manner for yourself what kind of message is it giving your son if you say it's OK for him to do it? Lots of folks DON'T have a problem with this type of a hunt. Don't think we wouldn't have some serious talks before we went if we do decide to do it, though. I have to wonder if it might teach him MORE to go on the hunt. It might make for an interesting ride home.......and the conversations. He's 16.....and I'd get to spend the time going there and back with him. I'd get to spend the tree time with him. I'd get to experince the "thrill" (maybe?) with him. I'd get to give him the $$ for the mount.....that gift. He's getting old enough to have these type conversations and discuss EVERYTHING involved. I think I could bring it up while watching something similar on TV.....and feel him out......without revealing the scenario. There are positives, too. They "might" outweigh the negatives. I just don't know, yet. That's why I'm here, asking. If you really want to give your boy a "kickstart" into hunting pony up the dough and take him on a nice outfitted hunt. Real hunting, with real opportunity at a big buck, and no chance of remorse. Just my .02. |
RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
Id say this may be a great kick start for your son and you. It would give him a chance to see what its about and taking a deer of that size wiht his bow is somn he can brag about. And it allows you to spend that time together. Although Im against highfence hunting, I would do it. Just to get him the experience. If we dont hook him now, huntings future may be at risk.
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RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
I'd have to say no. I started deer hunting when I was 12 and waited until I was 17 to shoot my first deer. My dad had a few spots that he could have taken me to shoot and easy deer but decided not to. I wanted a deer as a kid so bad but never had the right opportunity until I was 17. I'll tell you what, Im a better person for it today. I had to earn my first deer in rough conditions and when I look back, I wouldn't change a thing about it. I think not taking a deer for those first few years makes me enjoy my hunting experience and the thrill of harvesting an animal that much better.An easy kill handed to him on a plate with those canned hunts isn't even hunting, I believe its more along the lines of killing IMO.
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RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
To clarify, by a high bar in terms of expectations, I mean that if one takes a trophy buck very easily, then they may expect to do that every time in the future. When they don't they will be disappointed. Kind of like encouraging one's son to date by hiring a very hot, very expensive call girl for him. May be a great experience, but that means he may be less content with dating the plain Jane next door in the future.
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RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
Wow jeff this is a tuff question. I do think that it would be great father son time spent alone not just hunting but the time spent at camp and on the drive and sharing the hunt and the kill. I would just be nervous about him getting the wrong idea about hunting but then again he has hunted before and knows what its about. He knows that hunts like this are offered and its not something that we do everyday! So therefor with some guideance on what the high fence is all about I say go for it, but explain to him why your doing it! your doing it for him #1 and to share a special moment/bond with him that you hope will grow upon him and will help you to share many more memories togethor! Good luck!
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RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
.... does he know the offer is there?
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RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
I really don't see anything wrong with it. Let's face it:this canned deer hunt isn't going to be a life-altering event that leads the child into a downward spiral of drugs, prostitution and welfare. It's a deer hunt for chrissakes. He goes out and shoots a deer. So what? Maybe it's half-tame. Maybe it's not the "ideal" set of circumstances. Rarely in life are circumstances truly "ideal." Let's be real here.
Look at it for what it is: A chance to go hang out with the boy and maybe bond a little bit. Maybe he gets one, maybe he doesn't. Maybe he backs off the trigger at the last second. Maybe he gets there and realizes right away that it's not for him. Making your own decisions is part of becoming an adult. By putting him in a situation to make a decision and live with it - you're giving him an opportunity to grow as a human. For the sake of argument, let's say thathe shootsa deer inside the pen, then feels a little bit of remorse about it later. This willeither re-affirm his zeal and desire to hunt truly "wild" game in the future. At worst, he may discover that hunting isn't for him.That's his decision to make. In sum, I don't think it will "make or break" him as a hunter. I think it will give him an opportunity to make his own choice as an independent adultand live with it. It will give him the opportunity to experience compassion for his quarry and maybe open his eyes to the brutal beauty ofour game. Hunting isn't all butterflies and rainbows, whether it's inside a fence or 100% fair chase. Part of being a hunter, and more importantly, an adult, is making your own choices with regard to setting a heading on your own moral compass. As a father and a guide, you can present the opportunity to find himself as a man and a hunter. All too often, hunters make a consciencious effort to try to get their family "into hunting"by putting them in a position to have a good time.Sooner or later, the honeymoon ends, andFather Time puts these people in a position where they fail. In hunting, you fail more often than you succeed. Some people just can't swallow failure, or lack the discipline to put in the actual effort necessary,so they just throw in the towel. I don't agree with that at all. I think you're setting them up for failure. Let people make their own decisions. You've said it before - hunting is very personal - and I agree 100%. Let him make the call. |
RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
Im 15 right now and I wouldnt accept a High Fence Hunt, I also have not taken a single deer yet, well 1 year trying. Think of much better his first real deer will feel.
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RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
ORIGINAL: quiksilver I really don't see anything wrong with it. Let's face it:this canned deer hunt isn't going to be a life-altering event that leads the child into a downward spiral of drugs, prostitution and welfare. It's a deer hunt for chrissakes. He goes out and shoots a deer. So what? Maybe it's half-tame. Maybe it's not the "ideal" set of circumstances. Rarely in life are circumstances truly "ideal." Let's be real here. Look at it for what it is: A chance to go hang out with the boy and maybe bond a little bit. Maybe he gets one, maybe he doesn't. Maybe he backs off the trigger at the last second. Maybe he gets there and realizes right away that it's not for him. Making your own decisions is part of becoming an adult. By putting him in a situation to make a decision and live with it - you're giving him an opportunity to grow as a human. For the sake of argument, let's say thathe shootsa deer inside the pen, then feels a little bit of remorse about it later. This willeither re-affirm his zeal and desire to hunt truly "wild" game in the future. At worst, he may discover that hunting isn't for him.That's his decision to make. In sum, I don't think it will "make or break" him as a hunter. I think it will give him an opportunity to make his own choice as an independent adultand live with it. All too often, hunters make a consciencious effort to try to get their family "into hunting"by putting them in a position to have a good time.Sooner or later, the honeymoon ends, andFather Time puts these people in a position where they fail. In hunting, you fail more often than you succeed. Some people just can't swallow failure, or lack the discipline to put in the actual effort necessary,so they just throw in the towel. I don't agree with that at all. I think you're setting them up for failure. Let people make their own decisions. You've said it before - hunting is very personal - and I agree 100%. Let him make the call. WOW! .... Post of the year!!! Well said, Fran!!!!:) |
RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
ORIGINAL: quiksilver I really don't see anything wrong with it. Let's face it:this canned deer hunt isn't going to be a life-altering event that leads the child into a downward spiral of drugs, prostitution and welfare. It's a deer hunt for chrissakes. He goes out and shoots a deer. So what? Maybe it's half-tame. Maybe it's not the "ideal" set of circumstances. Rarely in life are circumstances truly "ideal." Let's be real here. Look at it for what it is: A chance to go hang out with the boy and maybe bond a little bit. Maybe he gets one, maybe he doesn't. Maybe he backs off the trigger at the last second. Maybe he gets there and realizes right away that it's not for him. Making your own decisions is part of becoming an adult. By putting him in a situation to make a decision and live with it - you're giving him an opportunity to grow as a human. For the sake of argument, let's say thathe shootsa deer inside the pen, then feels a little bit of remorse about it later. This willeither re-affirm his zeal and desire to hunt truly "wild" game in the future. At worst, he may discover that hunting isn't for him.That's his decision to make. In sum, I don't think it will "make or break" him as a hunter. I think it will give him an opportunity to make his own choice as an independent adultand live with it. It will give him the opportunity to experience compassion for his quarry and maybe open his eyes to the brutal beauty ofour game. Hunting isn't all butterflies and rainbows, whether it's inside a fence or 100% fair chase. Part of being a hunter, and more importantly, an adult, is making your own choices with regard to setting a heading on your own moral compass. As a father and a guide, you can present the opportunity to find himself as a man and a hunter. All too often, hunters make a consciencious effort to try to get their family "into hunting"by putting them in a position to have a good time.Sooner or later, the honeymoon ends, andFather Time puts these people in a position where they fail. In hunting, you fail more often than you succeed. Some people just can't swallow failure, or lack the discipline to put in the actual effort necessary,so they just throw in the towel. I don't agree with that at all. I think you're setting them up for failure. Let people make their own decisions. You've said it before - hunting is very personal - and I agree 100%. Let him make the call. |
RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
I would say it could taint his idea of hunting in general. Maybe not though, dont know your son. My thoughts areit could really ignite the passion as you mentioned on one hand, on the other it may make him not want to sit patiently for hours, or even days waiting for an opportunity at a shot.I know I was so determined to hunt, I rode my bike to local farms and propeties with my bow when I was only 14. I only wish I had a father to take me hunting, Vietnam spolied those ideas : ) Good luck with your decision, thats a really tough call buddy.
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RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
I completely agree with Fran.
The boy is 16. When I was 16 the ONLY thing that kept me close to my father was hunting..... In two years he will likely be off to college and chasing the "dears" will become even more intense...... I'd look at it as maybe one last chance to really make some memories together that will be talked about for years to come..... And that my friend is much, much more important than our personal views on what may or may not be fair chase, ethical hunting. |
RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
I can understand how you want you son to have the interest and love of hunting that you have. I was and still am the same way toward my sons. And I understand that it is possible that this hunt might spark that interest in hunting you wish for, thus your dilema for something you may not really support for you.
You know your son better than anyone and only you can make this decision. But I would argue that no matter what you do, you probably will not instill the love of hunting into your son viaone hunt. At his age, it's his choices, interests,and his decisions that will lead him down that path...or not! He may not have your love for it for years to come, if at all! Time will tell! Allow time to work in him and just continue to put those positive outdoor experiences in his memory that will one day be his influence! Hopefully! Good luck in your decision! |
RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
If my son came to me and said he wanted to do something like that after finding it, researching it, etc, for himselfthen I would take him and hope he enjoys it. However, I honestly do not think I could be very supportive of him in his venture. Ifind these hunts a disgrace. Right or wrong that is how I feel, and I could not fake it with my son or myself. I would be more proud of my son for takinga fawn in the wild and I would let him know that.
Although there are a number of monster bucks behind those fences there are no trophies. Simply my opinion. |
RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
I'd look at it as maybe one last chance to really make some memories together that will be talked about for years to come..... And that my friend is much, much more important than our personal views on what may or may not be fair chase, ethical hunting. |
RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
Who kidnapped Fran?! And why are they posting under his username[8D]
I see why is is the undisputed KING. Humor & brains. :D Heck of a response, makes perfect sense. One of the best written posts I've read in a VERY long time. |
RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
What if he decides "High Fence" is the way to go, instead of actually hunting? Doesnt sound like he puts a lot of time into huntinglike other 16yr olds, maybe he'll decide thathigh fence is the easy was to kill a monster every year. How will that change things?
Zach |
RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
once he is 18 he can do as he pleases;) While under my roof, no fence hunting.
If I could not put him on deer, well than shame on me |
RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
If a man puts forth a set of standards for himself, but sets aside those standards for his children when it's convenient that doesn't send a good message IMO. This isn't something illegal. If it were even "immoral" in the eyes of the world (not just 'some' of the hunting world), then I wouldn't consider it.I think he's old enough, given ALL the information,to make this decision on his own. Part of learning life's lessons and forming one's OWN (;)) opinions.....is through just living them all. Again....this isn't about ME. .... does he know the offer is there? Making your own decisions is part of becoming an adult. By putting him in a situation to make a decision and live with it - you're giving him an opportunity to grow as a human. As a father and a guide, you can present the opportunity to find himself as a man and a hunter. You've said it before - hunting is very personal - and I agree 100%. Let him make the call. Bowtech....he already has his first deer. |
RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
I think sometimes we let our emotions blind us to what being together in the outdoors is all about...... No, high fence hunting is not the "real thing", but neither is fishing in a stocked pond yet somehow we deem some animals as much holier than others....... and I'm just as quilty as the next man!
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RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
I'd look at it as maybe one last chance to really make some memories together that will be talked about for years to come..... And that my friend is much, much more important than our personal views on what may or may not be fair chase, ethical hunting. Formula, huntingson, Diesel....respect. I don't know what I'm gonna do, yet. What if he decides "High Fence" is the way to go, instead of actually hunting? Off the top of my head....I think I want him to show enough interest this year to hunt with me and take one, here, first (if we decide to do this). Also.....I'm not the most successful hunter in the world....but I've come into it really quickly and have had some limited success at it. If I were him....I'd be intimidated by that, a little. I don't push him into hunting at all. Not in the least. I give him the avenue....and he makes his decisions. At 15 (last year) I would have likely made the same ones. He says he wants to hunt this fall....and I believe him. If he shows and interest here.....and hear sof and understands (with my help) exactly what the offer entails...... ...........then he can decide. I'll take him, GLADLY.....or he'll decline. And he'll still be my son.;) |
RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
ORIGINAL: huntingson If my son came to me and said he wanted to do something like that after finding it, researching it, etc, for himselfthen I would take him and hope he enjoys it. However, I honestly do not think I could be very supportive of him in his venture. Ifind these hunts a disgrace. Right or wrong that is how I feel, and I could not fake it with my son or myself. I would be more proud of my son for takinga fawn in the wild and I would let him know that. Although there are a number of monster bucks behind those fences there are no trophies. Simply my opinion. I'd be more proud of him taking one of those doe that need taken than any buck out of a pen. Whatever the decision, that's between you and your son. |
RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
If I could not put him on deer, well than shame on me |
RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
Jeff, im just a few years older then your son. My advice to you is to ask him what he thinks about it and go from there.
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RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
If my son came to me and said he wanted to do something like that after finding it, researching it, etc, for himselfthen I would take him and hope he enjoys it. This won't be MY decision. I've read enough, so far, to know that I won't DENY him this if he wants to do it, though. These posts are getting way beyond hunting.....and that's fine. I'd be more proud of him taking one of those doe that need taken than any buck out of a pen. Whatever the decision, that's between you and your son. Jeff, im just a few years older then your son. My advice to you is to ask him what he thinks about it and go from there. |
RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
ORIGINAL: GMMAT If I could not put him on deer, well than shame on me Every Grandkid was put on deer their first time out on public land, it's not rocket science[8D] |
RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
The problem I see is, you take him and he arrows a great buck (150 class) and then he hits the "real" world where you have to hunt for a buck like that and it he does not succeed right away, that could discourage him from hunting the "real" world. The other problem I see is, he takes a great buck, but what kind of trophy is it? Is it something that HE would be proud of? IMO, you need to start this discussion with your son and find out how HE would feel about hunting/killing inside a fense. Be sure to explain to him what all it envolves and then let HIM make this discission.
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RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
quote: If my son came to me and said he wanted to do something like that after finding it, researching it, etc, for himself then I would take him and hope he enjoys it. You agree with this part, too, Rob? I guess I'll stay and should have stayed the hell out of the thread then. |
RE: High Fence - Real Life Scenario
You definately don't need a canned hunt as an excuse to spend time with your son.
If you really want to give your boy a "kickstart" into hunting pony up the dough and take him on a nice outfitted hunt. Real hunting, with real opportunity at a big buck, and no chance of remorse. and taking a deer of that size wiht his bow is somn he can brag about. I could understand it a little more if he was disabled or something. If he is intrigued by the outdoors, you could foster that into a "love" without resorting to something like this. If he's not then how will this help at all. It would probably make him less inclined to appreciate what hunting is really all about. Lots of folks DON'T have a problem with this type of a hunt. Don't think we wouldn't have some serious talks before we went if we do decide to do it, though. I have to wonder if it might teach him MORE to go on the hunt. It might make for an interesting ride home.......and the conversations Questioning if he thinks what you just got him to do was right??? What if the deer are so tame that it's embarrasing??? Either way it's wrong |
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