RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

Arthur that right there is Gospel. I am not a fan of the MBH(Michigan Bowhunters). They are fighting against xbows, and also are the ones that came up with the 80% rule here in MI and got it passed.

MBH is also on the wrong side of a few other issues IMO, but it's 5000 members strong[&:]and they think they speak for 300,000+ bowhunters in our state[&:]

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

The crazy thing to me is the issue of how many folks in any given state are "pure" bow hunters. Most of the guys that I am around just think of them as deer hunters and tend to go with whatever is legal at the time that they want to go, whether it be ML, shotguns, bow and arrows, or crossbows.

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

Ok Germster.......lets use your stats that I'm not supposed to fear.

I don't know our bowhunter success rates currently but for giggles lets say PA allows crossbows into the season and another 200,000 crossbow hunters are created in a year or 2 from the ranks of the 630,000ish rifle hunters who don't currently bowhunt.

Now use your math and stats and since PA is better than Ohio anyway we'll jump the success rate for PA crossbowers up to a nice round 25%.

25% of a new population of 200,000 guys in archery season equals 50,000 more dead deer if my math is right.

We've just added a nother 50,000 harvested deer in 6 weeks which will have to be taken into account for when they set the seasons and bag limits for the following year. (Especially when they see how the BUCk harvest will go up)

So in the following year when they tell me "Sorry man we have to cut the 2 weeks of Novemeber from the archery season because of the new harvest dynamic" I'm supposed to just bend over and say "Thank you sir may I have another":eek:

It has already been written in nice dark print that if crossbows are allowed here in PA they are going to have to shorten the archery season. A season extended into November that was fought and gained by the United Bowhunters of PA and which we will most likely now lose at the hands of something we didn't want in the first place. YIPPY.[&o]

So in a wonderful state where we already cannot hunt on Sundays adding the crossbow will accomplish these wonderful things for us:
Shorter season due to an increased fall harvest, more crowding in the fall woods.
So when a state like Illinois is just starting to think about getting serious with their bows........ours will already be cased up for the season. We'll be done before Halloween just like we were before the UBP won the extension into the first 2 weeks of November.

Where can I vote yes. :eek:

Not sure how much I can say it or how many times, PA is not like Arkansas or Ohio that has been filetring crossbow hunters in for 30 years. We are too far gone here in PA in population, mentality and available land to hunt.
IF they really do fit a herd dynamic and a management plan and bowhunters can still find peace in other states like Arkansas that's great. It works for you guys but don't anyone who hunts elsewhere preach to me about what is going to work here when all your doing is spreading a false premise of good things to come.

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

Matt:

With all due respect....you're assuming these hunters wouldn't be successful in one of the gun seasons.....since you're a one and done buck state.

The amount of tags wouldn't change.....so, theoretically....the number of harvests shouldn't, either.

I'm on you guys side as far as YOUR state goes (wouldn't matter, here IMO).....but the above needs noting if we're going to look at this logically.

If my logic is way off.....I suspect someone will set me straight.:D

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

Jeff
I can see your point, and in theory I suppose it shouldn't matter, but we already get hammered in this state from the gun hunters that the bow hunters kill all the bucks before gun season comes in, up that number by 50K & they will be IRATE that we are shooting "thier" deer. Hence, the reduced season Matt talked about.

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

Don't get me wrong, Rybo......

It wouldn't bother me if you guys just came right out and said....

"Look....we're already HAMMERING the woods with over 300,000 bowhunters in PA, right now. Get a freakin clue. We don't need the woods MORE full ofhunting bodiesthan they already are."

In your special set of circumstances.....I'd say that was a valid argument against them (xbows).

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

The number of fall harvests in bow season WOULD change (Especially the buck harvest) and they've already stated in black and white that the season WILL be shortened to accomodate the new bow season harvest dynamic.
The total buck harvest per year will increase because of the higher ratio of success that will be achieved in bow season vs. gun season is the way I understand it.

That's where it gets really biology and harvest ratio oriented and why I say nobody from Arkansas has the ability to say it will not negatively affect the PA season.
How it affects North Dakota or South Carolina I couldn't give a flip but I sure care about it here.

Unless someone sees a 2 week shorter season in a state where we can't hunt Sundays as a POSITIVE thing? then I'M missing something .........because that's what has already been stated by the Pennsylvania Game Commission as the likely scenario if they are adopted HERE.

So the one and only thing we canput down as a FACT for what crossbows will do for us here in PA is a shorter season, because it's already been laid out.
To me that's a negative and I don't want any part of it.

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

Don't get this twisted. I'm not coming tobat for CB user's, buthere are somefacts reguarding this subject as far as Pa goes. There has been no significant change in numbers of hunters afield, or any real change in the number of deer killed as a result of CB's being made legal to hunt with in Special Regs WMU's, or state wide (firearms season). In fact,in certain WMU's they have extended the season (antlerless only)by two weeks, are currently in the process of making it legal to kill a second deer before tagging the first one, and allowing bait to be used on private land only.
There is also an unlimited number of antlerless tags available in WMU 5-D, and they even increased the total number of these tags by 2000. I also should mention there has been a steady decline in most all types of hunting license salesthroughout the state of Pa. Even though I've put my CB away, because I like more of achallenge, CB's have made little difference in Pa hunting.

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

I will pretty much disagree and that is cool. Your assuming a lot about seasons and how succesful people will be.

Why we fight to keep folks out of the woods I will never understand

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

My feeling on SRA's is that they are an entirely different world compared to the rest of the state. You could make the rifle/shotgun season 4 months long, issue 10 million tags and you will still have problems knocking down the numbers because of access, not weapon/hutner efficiency.

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

This is true. However, the fact remains that even where there are a ton more deer, which there is, there hasn't been any real change in deer kill/hunter numbers. Hencethe increase in allotted tags. I should also mention I hunt public land and am amazed by the low number of hunters, reguardless ofthe weapon of choice.

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

MAtt MI is close to PA and we are just about ready to pass xbows in Archery.

Two main differnces

1 PA has more hunters
2 MI has two buck tags

I think it's about a wash. I disagree with all your numbers. I don't think as many hunters are going to convert as you stated. I am guessing(only gusssing) less than half. Of the half I am guessing the success rate the first two years is less than 10%. Being these guys hunt like they have a gun, being you still have to get close to kill one, I just don't see it happing. Of the 100,000 that do convert, at least half will be done in 5 years. It will be too hard;)

I see compound hunters converting to become the majority of xbow hunters. We know they will be about 2% better than with a bow.

We just see it differnet, and there is nothing wrong with that;)

Just think where bowhunting would be today without compounds? Would some states even have a season?

For those who state it's about money, well it is and always will be. Hunting is the 12th biggest industry in the USA when put together. Without money no bowhunting;)

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

Matt / PA

Quote:

It has already been written in nice dark print that if crossbows are allowed here in PA they are going to have to shorten the archery season.

you could dark print that PA will blow up too when crossbows are allowed, that doesn't mean it will happen

PROOF it will happen, FACTS to back your belief it will happen ....... give me something besides a side affect of P&Y fear tactics.



most likely now? I thought you just said they will HAVE TO do it? you mean you don't know now, its just specualtion on your part ?


speculation on both, theory and not fact and ever other states that have allowed crossbows to everyone ver very few people if anyone complains now

funny that huh ?



no its not the same, but what happened when compounds were allowed in PA archery season ? hunters numbers went up 1000% and seasons actually probably increased too didn't they ? when compounds went to 80% letoff, and 300 fps, with mechanical releases, carbon arrows .......... all of that INCREASED hunters in the woods.

where are all the threads complaining about THAT Matt / PA ?

fiction, wives tale, P&Yscare tactics, fables


Sorry, those fears are unfounded and the G&F of PA knows it and they're doing what they're suppose to do - maximize huning opportunities and make money and getting more people into archery season by way of crossbows is a GOOD THING. Heck, maybe you'll triple your bowhunting numbers, and by sheer number of bowhunters petition the G&F to ADD 4 weeks to your season and reduce gun by 1 week.

Theory - it COULD happen, just like ya'lls theory- based on nothing



ok, WHO is saying this ?


because if you can show me crossbows are a NEGATIVE to archery season, I'll JOIN you in being against them

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

From the UBP Website outlining the source of hoopla concerning crossbows in PA:

The crossbow industry and the various and numerous trade and commerce associations which support them, long recognizing a potential market share in Pennsylvania worth multiple millions of dollars, has finally succeeded in convincing at least 55 members of the Pennsylvania House of Representatives that by merely ‘legally’ changing the Title 34 definition of ‘bow’, currently defined as hand held, hand drawn and held in place by hand or with a hand held mechanical trigger to now also include the crossbow in that definition of what is a bow. This legislation changes the definition of a bow from a hand held, hand drawn, in the presence of game hunting implement, to ‘include’ a device that is hand held, but actually in the condition of and as a fully loaded, locked, and cocked device, requiring no concern for physical movement or mental training to accomplish the task at hand, much like a firearm; the crossbow.
If this legislation that will re-define the legal definition of what constitutes a vertical bow and that of a crossbow to be one and the same, all existing and future archery seasons would be understood to include the crossbow.
There is little data available to either substantiate or disprove the crossbow industry’s documented claims that there will be no significant biological impact on the deer management plan in Pennsylvania, or any possible effect on the duration of the presently long-existing and well-tested successful archery seasons in the state. There is; only rampant commercial speculation as to how many crossbows may be sold in Pennsylvania if the Legislation passes. There has been no consideration by either the crossbow industry’s commercial interests nor the 55 members of the House of Representatives currently signed as co-sponsors to House Bill 2653, for the possibly significant social ramifications on the already severely stressed relationships between Pennsylvania’s already existing many special interest hunting factions. There is, or was also, no consideration by either party, of the extremely difficult to predict overall effects to wildlife management in a state that historically fielded nearly a million sportsmen per year, or for that matter, in a state which has more acres of public lands shared by more varied outdoor enthusiasts than nearly any other state in the nation.


Hopefully Mr. Frye wouldn't object to me postingthe following here also.......concerning what was talked about above: House bill 2653

By Bob Frye
TRIBUNE-REVIEW OUTDOORS EDITOR
Sunday, June 29, 2008

Could hunters who use crossbows to take deer in places like Allegheny County get the opportunity to lug them off to deer camp someday soon?
Maybe so. The Pennsylvania Game Commission will look into the possibility of allowing hunters to use crossbows for big game in all seasons.
Hunters can already use crossbows in Pennsylvania in certain situations. Anyone who can get a doctor to say they're physically incapable of drawing a conventional bow can get a permit to use them in any big game season. More able-bodied hunters can also use them to hunt elk, bears, and even deer in special regulations areas.
They've been off limits in other situations, though -- most noticeably the statewide archery deer season.

At last week's Game Commission meeting in Harrisburg, however, commissioner Russ Schleiden of Centre County asked agency staff to investigate the pros and cons of introducing crossbows to all seasons in time for the 2009-2010 hunting seasons.
He asked for a report to be presented at the agency's October meeting, which will be held in Washington County.
"The crossbow has been approved for just about every season but one," said Schleiden, of Centre County. "I feel it's been long overdue."
The idea is sure to generate lots of debate.
The United Bowhunters of Pennsylvania -- the group representing the state's organized archers -- has long opposed the legalization of crossbows for the archery season.
In a report on the organization's web site, UBP president Wes Waldron said the group opposes "the use of crossbows in the general archery season by those fully capable of drawing and holding a conventional bow."
The previous three attempts at legalizing crossbows for Pennsylvnaia's archery deer seasons were all sparked by requests from crossbow manufacturers, dealers, and state lawmakers, Waldron added.

Commissioner Tom Boop of Northumberland County believes that is the case again this time.
Typically, he said, commissioners make changes to game laws based on "a perceived need, or a perceived desire," expressed by the agency's constituents. But he said he's heard from no hunters asking for crossbows.
"I think it's fair to say that this is being driven by manufacturers and lobbyists and not from our stakeholder groups," Boop said.
Indeed, the only person to testify in support of crossbows at the agency's June meeting was a representative of a crossbow manufacturer.
Schleiden -- who said he does not own a crossbow and has no plans to get one -- hinted that there is broader support for the tool, though he did not specify who that might be.
"I think you'll find out once we introduce it," he said.
Schleiden did admit that introducing crossbows to archery season could have ramifications. If too many hunters take up crossbows and shoot too many deer, the commission might have to consider shortening archery season or bag limits, he said.



If I can find the other source where I read the PGC reiterating the likelihood of shortening the season or bag limits I'll post it.

Like I said.......even commissioners have stated that this not something that is being driven by the bowhunters or even HUNTERS in general of this state.

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

There were no commercial interests driving the traditional bow and compound bow movements in the past and present?

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

Good question.

Just how many years ago were compounds legalized during the archery season? Were they ever "illegal"?

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

One thing we know about history, were doomed to repeat it:D

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

UPB is hardly a good source for an unbiased source Matt / PA

that first quote is ALL speculation, with a nice twist of fear added

ok, you need to stop saying it WILL happen and replace it withits your opinoion, or there is apossibility that balks what every other states seasons have went through etc etc

Quote:

Like I said.......even commissioners have stated that this not something that is being driven by the bowhunters or even HUNTERS in general of this state.

you seriously don't understand that EVERYTHING is driven that way. People didn't ASK for compounds, or carbons, or mechanical heads ....... manufacturers gave them to us when seeing a way to "improve" and i use that word loosley.

and we, as consumers, bought into it all and we do every fall with new gadgets and equipment that pushed the fringes of legal and ethical




facts and proof Matt / PA 24 pages, and I can offer you my proof by way of whats happened in states that HAVE allowed crossbows. Theres my proof, its all I have to offer from stats from those states showing no decrease in archery seasons, or tags, and no massive increase in bowhunter numbers

in other words, no negative impact

if you cannot provide even one little fact to say they shouldn't be allowed, then what you're doing is opposing something without a factual reason. now, your true reason might be selfish (you want the woods to yourself) but sir, that is a terrible thing if you really want that I think

Quote:

Just how many years ago were compounds legalized during the archery season? Were they ever "illegal"?

Yes, archery laws had to be ammended to include compounds, >50% letoff, >65% letoff, >80% letoff, mechanical releases, mechanical broadheads, baiting, arrow rests ........ the rules change EVERY YEAR to include/allow new technology into the sport of bowhunting.

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

Yes Jeff, I remember when I first started bowhunting in Pa, compounds were not legal at the time, only recurves. I think they became legal somewhere around 1977 or 1978. I'm sure someone can be more specific on this though.

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

Surely commercial crossbows were around in the late 70's too........if they were so close in technology to compounds(probably more so then than now?), then why weren't they just adopted at the same time. Surely they aren't justNOW all of a sudden archery tackle?
If they are being argued as bows now ,why weren't they consideredequal then?

Crossbows are successful in a state like Ohio because Ohio has grown over that same time period WITH crossbows, they haven't just been shoved down their throats in the last year or so.

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

Know one is shoving a crossbow down your throat.;)
You do not have to use one(if passed).

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

I cannot believe how long this one is going on! Dang I just helped move it up the list again.

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

I could be wrong, but I think perhapsMatt's paranoiastems from the fact he's a traditional shooter? Again, I could be wrong. Alot of the information he has provided, I read in the Pa OutdoorNews(July 4th edition) as well as from the PGC's web site. Much of this info is "pure speculation", and the "push" is indeed being headed by CB manufacturer's.
I personally hope they keep things the way they are also. CB's don't belong in the woods with compounds and recurves/long bows, but I can live with them in Special Regs WMU's.[&:]

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

LOL........almost until you consider that I've owned (I think) 28 different compounds in the last 6 years alone. :Dand the fact that I have extreme first hand knowledge of what todays top end crossbows are capable of.

My paranoia stems from even the THOUGHT or chance that we as bowhunters are going to lose the hard fought November part of our bowseason.
You PA guys remember what it was like to hunt until Oct 28th and then put your bows away for the season? (and until sunset, not a 1/2 after to boot)
Thank the evil UBP for changing that for you.

If you're OK with potentially losing that and adding more bodies into the archery season with things that aren't what I at least consider bows..........not sure what to tell ya.

Would you proponents be as quick to allow flintlock muzzleloaders for everyone in the archery season too?

I shoot both a very accurate flintlock religiously and a top end crossbow and I can tell you for a FACT that the crossbow will do EVERYTHING that my flintlock will do accuracy and effectiveness wise except flipping them over with a shoulder shot.
If I could kill it with my flintlock I could kill it with a crossbow to the same ranges.

Not guessing..........I shoot them all, recurves , longbows, compounds, crossbows, flintlocks, inlines, revolvers, pistols, shotguns, "assault" weapons you name it.

I simply don't want ANY gambles being made at this point with a season where we already get to hunt IMO too few days of the season. I sure hope I don't get to say "I told ya so" when your casing your bow up at teh end of October and listening to everyone else in surrounding states talking about sweet Novemeber.:eek:

Some of you guys in other states, I don't know what your season dates are or what days of the week you get to hunt but keep in mind:
In PA our bow season runs Oct3rd through November 15th and then IT'S OVER. No straight season through November, December or January.
At one time in the not too distant past our season ended the last weekend in Oct..........AND we still can't hunt on Sundays.

You getting what I'm saying? I don't want some half baked other state driven biology or manufacturers lobbying risking in any way shape or form 2 weeks of our already short ass season.

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

the P&Y club I'm guessing


P&Y club

several other states have recently added them - tell me Matt / PAhow are those state's seasons ? Down? Bag limits down? Tens of thousands of converted gun hunters flooding archery seasons?

facts are that none of those fears have happened, ever, not once



crossbows are being pushed more now because of the money it will generate, because it'll bring more people into archery season, give more opportunity, help keep the herds in check ...... all positives, no negative





tell me how many ADIITIONAL bowhunters came into archery season in the past 10 years because of compounds? are you suggesting that just at this very moment your bowhunting has become near a saturation point ?

c'mon man



the very silliest of arguments Matt - you can do better




your flintlock shoots 325 fps? and broadheads ? and no gun powder?

again c'mon man, the very, VERY basic differences of a bow and gun you are trying to ignore, because you're painted into a very very tight corner




you're trying to compare accuracies vs types of weapons - you can likely outshoot most handgun hunters with your compound, many of us can ....... they will NEVER be a bow, nor ever allowed in a bow only season



then never, ever EVER allow a change in archery tackle because of what it MIGHT do.

remember every fall when you got giddy with all the new compounds and upgraded and technology? those things you LOVED because it suited you - and it brought many bowhunters into archery season too didn't it ?

compounds have MADE modern bowhunting - they evolved bowhunting just like crossbows can :)






you're losing hunters Matt - aren't you? every year fewer and fewer people hunt in PA - true of false ?

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

I'm not against Matt's thinking. I don't want archery season jeopardized either, but it is a FACT (look at the PGC's web site) that total number ofhunting license numbers have continously declined over the last 10 years. As far as Pa's archery season goes, I hunt from the beginning of Oct, on and off, through Jan. I hunt through all of the rifle seasons as well. I can't say I have any shortage of hunting time at all. Special Reg's area's are more liberal, no doubt.

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

The main deal behind P&Y's 65% rule was to provide 'a clear and demonstrable difference' between compounds and crossbows. That clear and demonstrable difference has been erased, at the overwhelming insistence of bowhunters. If you go back through bowhunting history, back to 1970, and analyze bowhunter success rates, you see a 4-6 point jump every few years. Each of those jumps, every single one, coincides perfectly with a new advance in compound technology.

Now, the technology is so good that there is no statistical difference between bowhunter succes rates and crossbow hunter success rates. So, if allowing the crossbow is going to cut your season, beware the next advance in compound technology. It will put compounds over the top and will be more of a threat to your season than the crossbow would be.

Oddly, I never see a whole lot of comments about what we've got being darn well good enough and encouraging manufacturers to put on the brakes.

I've taken a whole lot of grief over the years on this forum because of warning about the runaway train we've been riding and where technology is taking us. With many states reviewing crossbows' legal status and allowing their unrestricted use in their archery seasons, I find my long held stance to be finally and fully vindicated.

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

I see it that we're losing hunters because the quality of the experience and the current direction of the deer managment plan is driving people away. Lets make that experience WORSE and drive MORE away huh?

Who cares if license numbers are dwindling in this argument?........We won't be creating NEW licensed hunters so the point is MOOT. We'll be transposing them to the archery season where it is gonna screw the whole kettle of fish up for those of us who already BOWhunt here and have never asked for crossbows. If anything I'll argue that we'll lose MORE bowhunters because of further encroachments on the season, and more rifle hunters because they will see crossbows and regular bows as further taking away THEIR opportunities and will quit.
If you can speculate one way then I can speculate the other just as easily.


Ok all you armchair out of state PA deer management biologists........tell me this since you are all so familiar with our deer management plan:

If our archery season can handle the influx of crossbow hunters and increased harvest then why aren't we currently allowing the exisiting archers to hunt right up until rifle season like a State like West Virginia or a number of others that neighbor us??

We shut the season down Nov 15th and then no deer are hunted again by any weapon until the Monday after Thanksgiving when the general firearms season opens. That's 2 full weeks in the prime of the fall where NOBODY can hunt deer.
Wouldn't it just make sense to increase the existing opportunities for the current bowhunters approved bows and see if THAT brings in more hunters?

Give us an honest increased opportunity, not an imaginary one by simply including a weapon that doesn't belong or work here.
I would say more days to hunt under the current structure would go further to actually INCREASE new hunter numbers and new license sales than allowing crossbows which will just steal from the exisiting pool with no new REAL opportunities to be afield.

OF course that's all just educated speculation and I'm the only one not allowed to speculate on what will happen here. My arguments are silly and unfounded as analyzed by hundreds and thousands of miles away.

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

The funny thing is that some folks act like everybody is gonna go out and spend 1000 bucks (or whatever itcost)on the most powerful, cutting edge crossbow out there. Hell, my dad bought one for less than two hundred dollars out of a catalog. The thing is accurate as hell at short range, but then reaches the point where you could probably outshoot it with his 80lbs drawBear fiberglass recurve bow.

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

says YOU........what isn't to compare? They are both held and aimed the same (But the crossbow actuallyhas the advantage of a good scope) they can both be ready to go all day long with no need to draw or hold in the presence of game........you simply put the sights on the target in any opening out to much further than I can shoot with my compound and wait for a broadside shot and pull the trigger. Oh yeah feel free to rest them on your shooting rail if you so choose.
And quite frankly if there was even the hint of rain and I just wanted a deer dead I would take the crossbow over a flintlock or conventional bow.

At any range I would shoot my flintlock which is HELL on deer at ranges I wouldn't dream of shooting my compound, I could get the exact same dead deer result with a crossbow. For all intents and purposes their effectiveness is identical.

And don't quote me the usual crossbow proponent LOWER end crossbow performance to somehow keep crossbows and compound painted with the same brush.......if you let the cheapy 300fps model in you let the 405fps, 155ft lbs of kinetic energy model in too. The one that has more energy at 100yds than an 80lb 30" compound does off the bow........and is more inherently accurate than an open sighted rifle out to that 100 yard mark.

You can THINK you have me painted in to a corner BD but you shouldknow after too many years here that youknow your right, Iknow I'm right and neither of us is EVER gonna change that no matter what we say to each other. The difference is that I LIVE HERE.
So you might as well quit all the fancy quote quote quote this state that state crap because I know what I believe is right for THIS state just like you do so it's a stalemate with us two.........it always has been.

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

Matt, I know where you're coming from, but I have a question for you. As I already said,the state land that I hunt has seen (by me)no real increase in hunting pressure worth mentioning since they made crossbows legal. It's still almost all compound hunters. What makes you believe this would change state wide if they allowed CB's during regular archery season? The fact that gun hunters will pick up a CB?Again, I'm not in favor of them allowing CB's during regular archery, and don't think they're going to, but I don't think it will bring about the major changes in the existing seasons the way you portray. JMHO

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

Above is the most telling statements of all ..... that is the entire argument..... Matt does not consider them bows, and wants them left out..... that is it....... AMAZING...... and elietist ......

And I can say with fair certainty that very few of the new crossbow hunters will be ploping down 1500 + $$$ for a stryker ...... more likely a 500 Horton or something like that.... which is not a top of the line 400+ FPS crossbow.


BTW crossbows have decimated the season in Arkansas sooooo badly that our bow season runs from Oct.1 - Feb. 28 , and we have a total of 4 deer available no more than 2 being bucks by any method combined. And crossbows are allowed during the entire bow season..... not a special season.

MET

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

YES.

All they need to do now to participate is pick up a regular compound, recurve or other approved bow. The argument is we'll be creating NEW hunters with this change. WE WON'T we'll be simply driving more rifle hunters to the archery season with an easier to use than a conventional bow weapon so they can finally compete "with all the archery hunters getting the first crack at all the big bucks"

We're gonnaMOVE hunters into the archery season, kill more bucks in the archery season with an easier to use weapon and then we're all gonan be crying in our cereal bowls the morning of Oct 29th 2011 when we are done archery hunting for the year.

They can move now, the argument by crossbow proponents is that the evil compound is so easy to use.......so the rifle hunters already have an 'Easy" to use option if they want to participate.
But they won't they'll wait for the one that they can cock, load and use like a long gun.

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

I can't believe this thread is still going strong.

In fact.. I am thinking of taking up crossbows to spite all of you.

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

I can't wait to post the picture of me and my crossbow and a dead deer taken in the rifle season.............

Think I'm kidding? ;)

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

I do see your point Matt. Truth be known, they shouldprobably just put the CB's in with the Muzzle Loader season.;)

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

Stolen from a 2003 edition of Arkansas Fish and Game......


[align=center]THE STORY IS IN THE NUMBERS[/align]According to Alice Browning, assistant chief of fiscal services for the Arkansas Game and Fish Commission, 288,517 hunting licenses were sold between July 1, 2003, and Jan. 1, 2004. Of those, 241,310 went to resident hunters.



I figure about 20 percent of those buyers, or about 48,262 outdoorsmen, carry archery gear afield at some point. Of that number, about 15 percent are the really "serious" bowyers who hunt more than a few days a year. So that number would be 7,239, give or take a few.
Within that 7,239 will be found that special core group to whom bowhunting is a passion - a way of life. I figure a maximum of 10 to 15 percent fall into this select category, giving you maybe 1,085 who truly go the extra mile when it comes to bowhunting.


According to AGFC statistics, bowhunters accounted for 6,060 deer this past season, down slightly from the 6,445 taken in 2002-03. Of that number, 3,208 were bucks, making the past season the first one in quite a while that saw archers take more males than females.


LOL.........Arkansas. Are you guys honestly serious comparing that state to PA? We have 30,000 more resident BOWHUNTERS than you have TOTAL hunters, and 750,000 more total hunters period.
How on EARTH do you think those numbers can be used as a model for what is going on in this state?
Do you guys know the breakdown of private, vs public, vs state gamelands in PA and how we accomodate that many more hunters?
If I hear 'It works for Arkansas" one more time I may stroke out..........LOL :D

HERE ARE THE FACTS ARKANSAS:

You have 241,000+/- resident HUNTERS
You have 48,000 +/- "archery" hunters

You live in a state with a total size of 53,179 sq, miles with a population 2,673,400 people which = 51.34 people per square mile

PENNSYLVANIA

We have 1,000,000 resident hunters +/-
We have 278,000 bowhunters +/-

We live in a state with a total size of 46,055 sq miles with a total population of 12,281,054 people which = 274.02 people per square mile

SO ARKANSAS...............Officially feel free toTHINK you're educatedabout what will work here in PA as far as our seasons and deer management are concerned.

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

Sorry, just had to post that again!

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

SO ARKANSAS...............Officially feel free toTHINK you're educated


That line had me snickering

RE: Opinions on Crossbows
 

The point of my input is ....... that percentage wise, when crossbows came into the picture, we did not double the total number of hunters..... we did not add to it by 50% even..... we did not even add 50% of the total number of bowhunters........ to the total number of hunters....... you just made our point for us..... There was not some God awful explosion of crossbow hunters that raped the state, and there was NOT a significant number of gun hunters who decided to then bow hunt with a bow of any kind.....

So I believe all of your purported scare numbers are overestimated ...... and what you think is laughable here in Arkansas is fine by me, cause we are managing our resources well, we are not over hunted , we don't have tons of slob hunters in any season, and we still welcome the additional hunters in any season or catagory..... so who is really doing the better job here...... 4 tags a year AND we have crossbows..... maybe your state should be listening to us....

You don't hear we Arkansans crying out loud do ya??? bye the way, heres a tissue.....

MET