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RE: Opinions on Crossbows
ORIGINAL: Matt / PA Since compounds are used by roughly 90% of all bowhunters, how many would support voting to limit bow seasons to only traditional bows? Would you throw away your high tech compound and pick up a recurve or longbow to be able to hunt with 90% fewer people in the woods? A crossbow isn't a bow to me in function or spirit. Combine that with how screwed up PA really is and that's my personal stance in a nutshell. We're not creating NEW hunters in PA we're potentially transposing hundreds of thousands of them into a different season so the not wanting new hunters is not a valid argument. HOWEVER if all of a sudden 200,000 rifle hunters wanted to pick up one of the first 3 mentioned bows and join us in archery season I would just swallow that pill and welcome them in. All they have to do is pick up the weapons that are already classified as leagl for that season and have fun. |
RE: Opinions on Crossbows
I live in ohio and the facts are right on. doesnt affect deer heard like all these people say. all i am hearing is "more hunters in the woods" well where i hunt if you control your hunters like we do you dont have that. you have to have permission right?
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RE: Opinions on Crossbows
My statemade crossbow hunting legal about two years ago.
Has this new law affected my bow hunting? Not really...;) |
RE: Opinions on Crossbows
Matt / PA I hunt a lot of Arkansas public lands. I might see 1 crossbow for every 10 compound - probably 1 for every 20 to be honest. Oh sure, PA IS different, i know, but our public lands get hammered with rifle hunters too, yet even WITH crossbows in archery you see few people in archery season
if you have private lands leases, or a club, or your own land, its close to irrelevant that crossbows are now allowed to everyone anyways - right ? |
RE: Opinions on Crossbows
wow this ended in a hurry :eek:
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RE: Opinions on Crossbows
Rybo,
You fellas need to make up your minds about the status of your state. Some say too many deer, others not enough deer. Some say plenty of public ground nearby that is crowded but they hunt it because they don't want to bother with a long drive to a place where it is less crowded. Sorry dude, but it pretty much sounds like the same old public lands hunting blues. Whether or not i bowhunt is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that crossbows have been introduced in a lot of different states with differing conditions and no bad has come of it. My "dog in the fight" is that I refuse to try to tell my fellow hunters (no matter where they are) that they can't hunt with a perfectly suitable weapon that is in common use in lots of places. When you choose to hunt public land, you are pretty much resigning yourself to varying degrees of inconvenience. If that gets to be too much for you, then put some effort into finding another spot, buy or lease your own land, or take up golf. Anything but the constant whining about how the crossbow hunters are gonna pee on your parade. It just gets silly after a while and probably does more to get people to support the use of crossbows than any set of actual facts other folks could provide. |
RE: Opinions on Crossbows
Whether or not i bowhunt is irrelevant. I didn't get far on supermodels.com with my opinion on stilettos.;) |
RE: Opinions on Crossbows
I'll bet that you didn't get far if you were trying to tell them that theyCAN'T wear stiletto heels[8D]
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RE: Opinions on Crossbows
actually that he doesn't bowhunt gives him an out of the box view without anything pulling him to one side or the other
The fact of the matter is that crossbows have been introduced in a lot of different states with differing conditions and no bad has come of it. As men, I cannot fathom ya'll not looking at facts, using reasoning and making good decisions based on those things. Instead I see a bunch of selfish, emotional guys crying about "their" season, "their" public lands and its laughable, it really is. I use to be anti-crossbow when I was younger because P&Y told me to be and after being challenged to WHY I disliked crossbows, my REASONS and FACTS behind my views I changed because there are no facts to not allow them in archery season. G&F commissions are figuring this out nationwide. Welcome crossbows, they'll not do anything but good for your states archery season (allowing them for everyone, most states already allow them for certain people :) ) |
RE: Opinions on Crossbows
I think what everyone is missing is that most hunters are conservative, meaning they do not like change. I know I sure as heck don't like change in things that effect or could possibly effect me.The xbow people are using the same argument as the homosexual left with homo marriage.It is a change from the norm which is unsettling to a conservative.I am not trying to equate the two or make this political,I am just weighing in onthe perceived mindset of the people involved. I don't have a dog in this fight.
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RE: Opinions on Crossbows
actually that he doesn't bow hunt gives him an out of the box view without anything pulling him to one side or the other Big D you knock down compounds and say there not bow hunting but you still hunt with one here and there. Practice what you preach!! |
RE: Opinions on Crossbows
As men, I cannot fathom ya'll not looking at facts, using reasoning and making good decisions based on those things. In NC.....it would be a zoo. In PA....it would be the equivalent to a war zone. These guys (and I know a few of them and have hunted, there) endure a lot, already. They're only trying to preserve what they have at present time......which is STILL overcrowded. I don't blame them for their stance, one bit. |
RE: Opinions on Crossbows
Shultzy,
Yes, my father has recently benefited from using one. However, my father and I sharply disagree on many aspects of deer hunting. Nothing would delight me more than to be able to take digs at him about his use of the thing. However, after being around him while he hunts with it, shooting the thing myself, and checking out the facts about the introduction of the crossbow in several states, I just didn't haveany ammo to use against him. |
RE: Opinions on Crossbows
Nothing wrong with that Lanse!
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RE: Opinions on Crossbows
I think what everyone is missing is that most hunters are conservative, meaning they do not like change. I know I sure as heck don't like change in things that effect or could possibly effect me. each year hunters demand MORE changes - higher letoff, faster, lighter, new scents, smells, decoys, camo, videos, dvd's, boots, broadheads, arrows, fletch ...... its AMAZING how archery has changed in the past 20 years Big D you knock down compounds and say there not bow hunting but you still hunt with one here and there. Practice what you preach!! I do not lose sight that one is vastly more difficult than the other. Im not sure you're understanding the levity of what you're proposing. On paper.....more hunters sounds great. In reality.....I'm not sure you're understanding how many more guys would take to the woods if they were legalized in PA. Does the fact that they already have a good-n-plenty not figure into the equation? Using your logic.....why not just open all seasons to all weapons.....if the limit doesn't change and they're still only allowed their one deer? lets do that - 1 season, you choose your weapon. Doing that, how dedicated are you to your bow now? how dedicated is everyone else ? Look, if the sky is going to fall letting crossbows in, why didn't it fall in AR, or OH or anywhere else ? In NC.....it would be a zoo. In PA....it would be the equivalent to a war zone. These guys (and I know a few of them and have hunted, there) endure a lot, already. They're only trying to preserve what they have at present time......which is STILL overcrowded. I don't blame them for their stance, one bit. However, after being around him while he hunts with it, shooting the thing myself, and checking out the facts about the introduction of the crossbow in several states, I just didn't haveany ammo to use against him. |
RE: Opinions on Crossbows
Big D you knock down compounds and say there not bow hunting but you still hunt with one here and there. Practice what you preach!! I was fresh out of high school when they started trying to legalize the compound in Texas. It was my very first political struggle on behalf of bowhunting. We complained that they are not bows, that they would bring in undesireable slob hunters, would damage our legal standing as being a recreational hunting sport with minimal impact on deer numbers and would open the door to crossbows. We lost. In the 38 years since, we've seen a lot more slobs than we had before. We've seen our standing change from minimal impact to being an integral part of the states' game management scheme. And, sure enough, we've watched the door open up for crossbows. They've basically spent the past 40 years slowly evolving the compound into a crossbow sans stock. In the book of Galatians, it tells us,"as ye sow, so also shall ye reap." The introduction of the compound plowed the field. The mass exodus to the compound laid the seeds. The everlasting thirst for more and more techology and easier use watered the field. The outcry against P&Y's 65% let-off rule forcing them to cave in and abandon their principles spread the fertilizer. Now it's time for harvest. Might as well open your arms and welcome your new brethren and their crossbows, because the compound mindset has brought it all about. |
RE: Opinions on Crossbows
Maybe we should only let crossbows AND traditional bows in archery season. Banish the evil compound bows!
^^^(Heavily laden with sarcasm)^^^ |
RE: Opinions on Crossbows
Banish the evil compound bows! |
RE: Opinions on Crossbows
Here's a stat I love
Long bow(compounds included) 21% succes Rate Cross Bow Succes Rate 23% This is for Ohio, look out:D This argument fight has come down to 1 thing IMO, Fear. Most fear an influx of hunters and someone shooting their deer. In MI someone has to be 80% deficient to use an Xbow. I watch my grandfather struggle for years with a compound back than. I fought for Xbow inclusion in the ArcherySeason here in MI. |
RE: Opinions on Crossbows
Our state’s bowhunting organization has not failed yet in keeping them out of the state’s general archery season, hopefully they can keep pushing back what y’all seem to feel is the inevitable.
Answer me this fairly though….. If the is little to NO hunter outcry that wants X-bows made legal for the general archery season and the push is coming almost entirely from the X-bow manufacturers…..don’t you think that is a little naïve to make something legal, just because those who manufacture it want it to be that way? |
RE: Opinions on Crossbows
As men, I cannot fathom ya'll not looking at facts, using reasoning and making good decisions based on those things. no, it won't, your fears are unfounded Nevermind;) |
RE: Opinions on Crossbows
Nothing surprises me about contemporary deer hunting. It started becoming all about the allmighty dollar and the big racks years ago.
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RE: Opinions on Crossbows
Rybo the guys who have fought for xbows in MI are guys who used to bowhunt, but no longer canpull a bow back.
One bad back One a bad hip, etc There just guys who want to hunt. Yes guys will pick it up who think it's "easy" to kill a deer with one. Having played with my Grandfathers Xbow now that he meets the 80% rule, I find them terrible for archery hunting. Too heavy and clumspy IMO. Even if legal here I would never use one if I can shoot a bow;) |
RE: Opinions on Crossbows
Nothing surprises me about contemporary deer hunting. It started becoming all about the allmighty dollar and the big racks years ago. |
RE: Opinions on Crossbows
Operative term there is "yet," rybo. When your legislature sees they can increase revenue with no additional expense - since the bureacratic infrastructure is already in place to administer it - they'll do it. Along with managing state wildlife resources and enforcing game laws, one of the fish and games prime directives is to provide opportunity and promote more recreational hours in the outdoors. When they see an easy chance to make themselves look good on that point, they'll recommend it. When they look across your border and see what's been done in Ohio, they won't see any reason to not do it.
As for whether or not there is any popular support for it in your state, you won't find it if you only look for information from your state bowhunting org. I don't know a flippin' thing about hunting in PA except the horror stories I've read in this thread, so I wouldn't have a clue about crossbow support there. I'll leave it to you to do your own research. |
RE: Opinions on Crossbows
I would assume that the most vocal folks against the crossbow may be getting more than a little enouragement from the compound bow companies. At least I am gonna assume that you won't find a single compound bow company rep saying anything other than bad things about expanding use of he crossbow.
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RE: Opinions on Crossbows
When my Father-in-Law's cancer returned and the realization hit him that he would not beat it this time....Hewas dying(and he knew it) he wanted nothing more than to hunt with me one more time. I bought a Ten Point crossbow for him, set it up (never owned or even shot a crossbow before) and read the directions on how to crank the string back load and un-load it etc... Sighted it in for him and let him practice with ita few times. He was a natural marksmanso it didn't take him long to hit where he was aiming. I then bought him aground blind because he was too weak to climb, bundled him up nice and warm and even bought one of those little propane heaters to help keep him warm in the cold late season (January). We went together and hunted a small tract of land close by that I've bow hunted before. He was too tired to make the trip to his own hunting property down in southern Illinois. The property we hunted was loaded with deer and I ended up killing a doe, I had already taken two bucks that year so I didn't have a tag but I'd seen some nice ones that day. When I made my way back to him to help him out of the woods, I asked him if he'd seen anything and told him about my kill. I didn't even need to tell him because he saw the blood on my clothes (from field dressing) and new I had made a kill, he just sat their and smiled. He said he'd seen a couple does and a nice buck just out of range. I asked why he didn't shoot the doe(s) and he answered he was holding out for a buck. He was so happy to be hunting and in the woods that he literally cried a little while explaining the close doe encounters he'd had and the excitement of the possibility that she (the doe) might of had a buck in tow. For a short time, he didn't think about his situation, all that disappeared and he was hunting, with me again..........He died three months later.
I gave the brand new crossbow to a charity that helps other hunters with the hopes it might bring someone else that same joy it did my Father-in-Law. A joy he would have never experienced had crossbows not been considered archery tackle. Personally, I don't care where they put crossbow hunters, gun season, bow season, their own season, I'm just glad Illinois sees them as archery tackle, it allowed one more day in the woods for a proud hunter. |
RE: Opinions on Crossbows
ORIGINAL: BigJ71 When my Father-in-Law's cancer returned and the realization hit him that he would not beat it this time....Hewas dying(and he knew it) he wanted nothing more than to hunt with me one more time. I bought a Ten Point crossbow for him, set it up (never owned or even shot a crossbow before) and read the directions on how to crank the string back load and un-load it etc... Sighted it in for him and let him practice with ita few times. He was a natural marksmanso it didn't take him long to hit where he was aiming. I then bought him aground blind because he was too weak to climb, bundled him up nice and warm and even bought one of those little propane heaters to help keep him warm in the cold late season (January). We went together and hunted a small tract of land close by that I've bow hunted before. He was too tired to make the trip to his own hunting property down in southern Illinois. The property we hunted was loaded with deer and I ended up killing a doe, I had already taken two bucks that year so I didn't have a tag but I'd seen some nice ones that day. When I made my way back to him to help him out of the woods, I asked him if he'd seen anything and told him about my kill. I didn't even need to tell him because he saw the blood on my clothes (from field dressing) and new I had made a kill, he just sat their and smiled. He said he'd seen a couple does and a nice buck just out of range. I asked why he didn't shoot the doe and he answered he was holding out for a buck. He was so happy to be hunting and in the woods that he literally cried a little while explaining the close doe encounters he'd had the the excitement of the possibility that she might of had a buck in tow. For a short time, he didn't think about his situation, all that disappeared and he was hunting, with me again..........He died three months later. I gave the brand new crossbow to a charity that helps other hunters with the hopes it might bring someone else that same joy it did my Father-in-Law. A joy he would have never experienced had crossbows not been considered archery tackle. Personally, I don't care where they put crossbow hunters, gun season, bow season, their own season, I'm just glad Illinois sees them as archery tackle, it allowed one more day in the woods for a proud hunter. We got the same Ten Point for Gramps a few years back.;) We are all hunters;) |
RE: Opinions on Crossbows
I DO practice what I preach. I realize compounds destroyed what bowhunting and archery was, evolving the entire sport into something entirely different. I don't see compounds are true bows, I hunt with one even so because they're legal in archery season. I have a better chance at killing animals with one, but then other times I shoot my recurve, taking on that challenge I do not lose sight that one is vastly more difficult than the other. It makes no sense to me Big D. Do what you gotta do though, whatever turns your crank. Each to there own weather we all agree or not. |
RE: Opinions on Crossbows
Cool stuff BigJ!! Well done!!:)
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RE: Opinions on Crossbows
At least I am gonna assume that you won't find a single compound bow company rep saying anything other than bad things about expanding use of he crossbow. |
RE: Opinions on Crossbows
Mea Culpa. I should have been more specific in terms of referencing companies that do not market crossbows.
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RE: Opinions on Crossbows
Arthur Pspeaks much truth
If the is little to NO hunter outcry that wants X-bows made legal for the general archery season and the push is coming almost entirely from the X-bow manufacturers…..don’t you think that is a little naïve to make something legal, just because those who manufacture it want it to be that way? If I could manufacture a bow that would gaurantee you would not miss, I'd sell millions on them by Oct 1st. If I could make a compound that would shoot 500fps and "feel" like a Q2 shooting 310 I'd sell millions of them. crossbows are another choice in your weapon to use to fill your tags. thats it, nothing more, nothing less Why is it you can rip compound shooters but at the same time your using one? I don't get it, your ripping yourself as well! You say its not true bow hunting but yet you do it because its legal. Thats a bunch of BS!! If you don't believe in something you shouldn't do it period. Trying to impress someone? I suppose you would shoot a gun out of a car too at deer just because it would be legal. most people don't get that Schultzythey're all wrapped up in their choices of weapons they can't see straight on issues like this. I don't know if I'd shoot out of a car or not - I will hunt every legal way possible if I choose too, and realize the full way that a rifle IS easier than a compound, baiting DOES make it easier, trailcams make it EASIER, tree stands make it EASIER. Dont mean I won't hunt all of those ways, but realizing that HOW you hunt is what makes the challenges and how it all changes is very very important to how you look at others. It makes no sense to me Big D. Do what you gotta do though, whatever turns your crank. Each to there own weather we all agree or not. hunt however you want to Schultzybut I'll always argue on the difficulties of weapons vs weapons and hutning style vs hunting style etc etc because THAT is what seperates challenges in hunts and accolades and admirations of accomplishments etc self bowyer shooting a doe with his own stuff > that a rifle hunting shooting a 150" buck on a big buck farm |
RE: Opinions on Crossbows
I’ve done my research, people freely admit it in the forums I browse and the articles read, etc. The X-bow companies are the ones making the big push. There is no organized group of hunting citizens fighting to get it done. I could all well and understand it if there were, but such is not the case. Yea a lot of people may like the idea and will use one if it passes, but not enough to fight to get it passed.
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RE: Opinions on Crossbows
So history repeats itself.
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RE: Opinions on Crossbows
ORIGINAL: rybohunter I’ve done my research, people freely admit it in the forums I browse and the articles read, etc. The X-bow companies are the ones making the big push. There is no organized group of hunting citizens fighting to get it done. I could all well and understand it if there were, but such is not the case. Yea a lot of people may like the idea and will use one if it passes, but not enough to fight to get it passed. Friends, As many of you know you are receiving this email because you have expressed, in one way or another, support for crossbow inclusion into Michigan's archery hunting season. I have just done a major updating of the list and there are now 146 names and email addresses such as yourself in this email address file. To update you as to news of what is happening in the State Legislature HB5741-H2 passed the House of Representatives by the overwhelming vote of 94 Yeas.......14 Nays......2 Abstentions. The bill has moved onto the Michigan Senate where it has been assigned to the Senate Committee on Natural Resources & Environmental Affairs. Due to the summer recess and election season recess that will be upcoming in the fall and then a lameduck session after the November election the bill will probably not be taken up until next year. That does not mean that we need to rest on the laurels of the victory.......and that REALLY felt good....in the House of Representatives. I will be getting back to you soon about contacting the senators who are on the senate committee that will be considering this bill. As an aside, perhaps I should tell you something about me. My name is (Blank it out). I live in Manistee County and am a retired teacher, married for 42 years with four grown children and ten grandchildren (my wife and I spoil them at every opportunity as the rules of grandparenthoodness allows us to do...LOL!). My interest in this crossbow issue stems from my position as a moderator in a site called Michigan-Sportsman.com. Over the years I read posts by MS members on the issue of crossbows being included (crossbow inclusion) into the State's archery season. Claims and counterclaims were made and I decided to do some research on my own in order to find out where the facts and truth rested. Simply put this search convinced me that the extravagant claims by those opposed to crossbow inclusion where based on emotion, opinions, and a serious amount of misinformation. I am a former bowhunter who used a compound bow. Six years ago I had my left hip replaced and upon the advice of my surgeon..."If you climb up into trees you take the chance of falling and ruining a perfectly good hip replacement"....I decided to no longer get up into trees in order to bowhunt. For a bit I considered hunting from the ground until I realized that one of the greatest thrills I derived from bowhunting was sitting in a tree for a month and a half watching all that nature offers unfold around me and from the ground much of this would be missing. I am not interested in hunting with a crossbow in the least although a bit of inborn stubbornness still leads me to think of taking one up just for spite which, in the long run, isn't a valid reason for doing things. Life is too short to step into the morass of spiteful actions. If you receive this email and are not interested in the issue of crossbow inclusion please reply to it and tell me to remove you from this email file. It will be done. For those of you who are willing to work for crossbow inclusion you will be notified about what you can do. It will entail keeping in contact with your state senator for the most part. The names on this list will not be shared and all emails will be sent out as blind copies/bcc. Regards, Yes I am one of the 146;) |
RE: Opinions on Crossbows
Amen! :D
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RE: Opinions on Crossbows
Yea a lot of people may like the idea and will use one if it passes, but not enough to fight to get it passed. The same is undoubtedly true on the crossbow side. |
RE: Opinions on Crossbows
I agree completely, but that is just one of the sad facts of life.
Like that Tostitos(I believe) commercial where they are talking about the construction workers.:D |
RE: Opinions on Crossbows
The X-bow companies are the ones making the big push. There is no organized group of hunting citizens fighting to get it done. I could all well and understand it if there were, but such is not the case. Yea a lot of people may like the idea and will use one if it passes, but not enough to fight to get it passed. compounds are of the same birth, didn't you know that? nobody wanted them, they were pushed/shoved/marketed and the rest is history |
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