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bawanajim is right guys......For ONE SECOND put hunting aside...This is basic human rights set up by the framers of this country we're talking about here! Holy cow!!! I can't believe what I'm reading!

A lot of GREAT men and women gave their lives (and still do) so we can live free as out forefathers designed it to be.........Please don't lessen their sacrifice because of an animal. [:'(]

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BJ and bawana - you may be the minority here, but I'm with you 110%.

ANYONE setting up where a wounded deer may run off the property onto one where recovery is not allowed should be accepting thepossibility ahead of time that a deer they shoot may go unrecovered. Fact is nothing goes to waste in the natural order of things. And playing the "God" card as reson to disrespect a persons rights should be embarrising to a real believer - using religion as an excuse to pursue their recreational activity illegally. I don't see how the use of "Gods creatures" other then the thinking, reasoning human that shot it would be disrespectful to that animal. If you truly feel that way, you could easily avoid it by not shooting to start with.

Steve - comfortable minority

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Why is that Jim, because I do not own land anymore? Or is it because I owned a measly 35 acres?

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Why would you chose to publicly belittle the owner of 35 acres? Many here proudly, and should ,own far less.

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Jim ... what are you talking about????? I was asking YOU if that was YOUR thoughts ...... dude, you have a serious chip on your shoulder ...... now just answer the question ..... quit deflecting .......

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If anyone has a problem here.....let me say it quite possibly might be .....ah............you.
As every person answered your posted question ,you squrmed and twisted it so as everyone that did not admit to breaking one of Americas most outstanding rights,that being private property rights. as some how unethical.

You sir are wrong, and anyone that forgoes others the same basic rights you demand are also wrong.
Many a good mans has given more than should have been asked to defend the very things you willinglywalk on.

RE: Ok Ethics Police ........2 Part Question .................................................
 

Jim .... because I would walk a few yards on someone elses property to grab a deer that I shot on mine?

Or is it because this thread has shown that 93% of hunters would do the same?

Or maybe because37% would actually shoot a deer on another guys property they knew did not allow hunting on?

Jim ... would YOU ever deny a guy permission to get his deer that died on your property?

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Wow.

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no one that asked , And since when does a majorities viewmake a wrong equal to acivil right?

And your proud to point out that 37% of responders are admitted poachers. Or that 93% would willingly deny their neighbors civil rights.

Are there any others of the bill of rights you are so willing to over look? Freedom of speech comes to mind?

I find it a sorry time in our country's history that so many are so willing to deny the most basic of their neighbors civil rights for that of a dead deer. Pathetic is all I can say.

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Well there was a time Jim when this question did not even need to be ask, now that is pathetic. Some how and I am just guessing. Someone stepping on your land, mine or any others for less than 5 seconds is not going to harm the bill of rights, I am just guessing.

With the new eminant domain ruling that have passed in the supreme court the past year I find more damaging to the bill of rights; than anyone here taking 3 steps to retrieve a deer.

There use to be a time when neighbors were friends, now they may shoot your big deer:eek: We have fallen and learned one great thing in America. How to protect our own interest, and only our own.

I remember helping my uncle a WW II vet when he broke down in his car. He just laughed he had to call me, "20 years ago 4 guys would have stoppedto help me"

You're right Jim the Bill of Rights is being stepped on, with the boot of selfisness:eek:

There I feel better:D

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The Bill of rights was written to protect us from our selves, and As hunters being in the minority we should embrace it whole heartedly,our future depends on it.

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Ok Jim you and I are neighbors. You think I am a young arrogant punk, I think you're an old mean SOB. You and I do not talk, we don't ask to go on each others land.

I shoot deer on my land that is 3 steps over the line there is no fence, I take a 2 steps and drag the deer back across. What of these 10 did I just break? Will the earth stop rotating? Will it rain fire and brimstone? Will Micheal Jackson make a come back? Again if I cannot see the deer I am calling, if I cannot go than the deer is alost. I will say your daughter finds me charming and attractive and we end up getting married. You die and i get your land:D I have to pay the death tax which I fine nuts and against the bill of rights[8D]

There is no ill intent or disrepect, and all are Neighbors know if you can see it, go get it;)

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How the hell did you miss this one?[:-]


daughter finds me charming and attractive and we end up getting married.

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed," nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted. "

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Lets add this to the mix for fun, hey I am bored.

Again you and I hate each other, you have made it clear I am not to step foot on your property. We are both near the lines in the back forty cutting wood. Again I am young and you are old:D. While cutting wood you have a heart attack, you keel over and cannotcall anyone. If I rush over to help am I breaking the bill of rights? Disrespecting your owner rights?


Again intent plays a key IMO.

I end up saving your life with a little mouth to mouth. Your daughter find me to be her hero for saving Dad. We get married and I get your land again:D

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Whats all this old stuff about? ;) Wanna compare hair?

I've read about your intent.

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Hit me where i am bald:D

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I was talkin about azz hair[:-] you know cligon fiber.;)

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Good night Jim, btw I just went outside and took two steps on my neighbors land, be prepared for the end of the world:D

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Don't fret it he just emailed me a picture of himself and mister mass,floating down river to his house, he says yer even.;)

Sweet dreams.;)

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Germ,
We're talking about Civil rights and not necessarily the "Bill of Rights" there is a difference, but both areimportant and the foundry of this country none the less.......you don't agree with that?

Guys.....

Do I think stepping a few feet on someones property will be the end of the world?.......No, BUT does that make it right? Would I ever stop someone from retrieving their deer on my families property in a situation like that? No. Do I think those who do are jerks? Yep. But they still have that right.

If someone doesn't want you on their land why in the world wouldn't you honor that?....because of a deer????:eek:Since when doyou get to choose what is worthy of trespassing? Maybe the next guy will think grabbing an apple off of one of your trees is equally as important as retrieving a deer.....is it ok for that person to trespass? Where does it end?

You see, what's important to you may not mean a hill of beans to another person. Private property is private property and the fact that so many obviously think it's ok to trespass because of a deer leads me to think some folks have their priorities screwed up.

The only time you should be able to trespass is when your, or someone else's life is in threat of death or great bodily harm or some other type of emergency, other than that what else is more important than civil rights????? a deer?:eek:

Now I can see where this situation would be a test of ones will (I even said it's not an easy decision) and I can see where one might think...."what will it hurt, it's just a couple of feet" It's these times that you must stop, think and realize that there is MORE to life and the quality of life that a damn deer.

Societal evolution is tantamount to turning a large ship.....it starts out slow and small but once in motion, it's extremely difficult to stop it. The Soviet Union was destroyed not by one fell swoop....but brick by brick. You may not think it's hurting anyone to but it's another brick being removed.

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Huh...

Who knew that by tresspassing on someone's property to retrive an animal we shot on our property we'd be tearing down the very foundation of our society.

GD guys, some of y'all make me laugh. Seriosuly? Is it that heinous of a crime?

This year, if I shoot a booner and he happens to hop my neighbor's fence I'll just let him rot. I'll be sure to post that I can see the buck ten feet away, but because I don't want to take part in the destruction of the fabric of our society, I'm just going to let the coyotes have at him. Yup, killing that deer and letting him rot will be ok on my conscience. At least I'll lay my head down at night knowing that I honored my neighbor's wishes by not stepping foot onto his side of the fence.

Give me a break. :eek:

I shoot a buck (or doe)I'm damn well going to get him. 'Nuff said.

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Don't misquote me, Jim .... that reeks of a lack of belief in your stance [:'(]I NEVER said I was proud ... I asked you if that's what you were angry at .... I am not for what the 37% would do ...... keep it real Jimbo

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You guys with the "RIGHTS" etc, are WAY OUT OF TOUCH!!! Do I respect the animal over the multi-millionaire who "inherited a piece of land," hasn't seen it in 3 yrs, yet paid someone to put a bunch of NO TRESPASSING signs on it, won't even let their own family hunt on it, because they are treehugging, card-carrying PETA and HSUS members??? HELL YES, I DO!!! If someone asks to come onto my land to retrieve an animal, he's got my tractor of atv at his disposal if he needs them, or I'll help him drag it out if I'm here. So I'm overstepping the bounds, so to speak, that another wouldn't grant me of retrieving my animal even though that person doesn't want me coming onto their land to get it. Am I violating their RIGHTS??? Sorry, I just can't quite see it that way. If I sneak up on the house and take pictures of them, I'm violating there rights, if I walk across an invisible line to retrieve an animal, leaving no trace I was ever there, out of respect for the animal, I am a HUNTER who respects the animal he's hunting. Sure, TECHNICALLY you could call me a poacher, but if I LEAVE THE ANIMAL to rot, doesn't that make me a SLOB HUNTER??? [:'(] [>:] [:@]

Some of you guys sound like "Do-Gooders," that used to bring you teacher and apple on test day to me. I still hunt a piece of land that the owners do not allow hunting, only because I'd hunted it for 15 yrs before they owned it, and by default, they ended up inheriting it, after the late owner, who'd lived in a Nursing home the last 12 yrs of her life with severe dementia and alzhiemer's left it to them. The owners of the property all around this piece are family as well who allow hunting, welcome hunting, and like myself, would make their equipment available to you if you needed it to retrieve an animal. Suddenly after a woman dies, it's realized that a long lost daughter and son-in-law ARE still in the will, and still inherit the middle block of a couple hundred acres. The don't attend a funeral, but upon finding out they've inherited the land, they pay someone to come and survey it and post no trespassing signs all over it, then enter it into some Federal Treefarmers conservation program that is making them money for owning the land and having trees on it. They also are rewarded with the $$$ coming from a Natural Gas/Oil well on the property, and though they haven't laid eyes on it in years, they choose to take away the hunting rights of family that had hunted the land for more than 50yrs, the same family that owns the land on either side of this parcel. I suppose I sort of practice "what they don't know won't hurt them." Any different than speeding, or rolling a stop sign, because you can see at night no one is coming???

Now if I was riding an atv all over their land, tearing it up, and growing marijuana on it, I could see where someone might say I was "violating" their rights. If they lived local, decided to actually show any interest in the land, I'd be honoring their wishes, but when the situation is as it is, I see right through the No Trespassing signs. Sorry if that make me sound like a "Slob Hunter," but it is what I do in this specific situaiton.

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It's just a deer.

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OK - you are a poacher.

Where they live and the fact you do not agree with how they wish to use THEIR property is no justification for you to trespass and ignore their rights. The willingness of some to decide that they can do what they wish because it feels right to their own moral code is disturbing. Youv'e hunted it for 15 years and have somehow earned the right to continue so reeks of socialistic welfare entitlement. They did not earn the rights to the property in your mind and you hunt it - therefore you are entitled to continued use? Amazing!

No, you became a slob hunter when you decided to shot an animal you might not legally recover because you are willing to trespass while pursuing a recreational hobby.

I have always thought that ethics where based on what you would do when no one but you would know.
Obviously to many, ethics are what you can get away with.

If you truly respect the animal more then the person - fine.
Show it by not not being willing to break the laws you don't like in the pursuit of them.
Putting the "respect" of an animal over the rights of humans is the plank that ARA's stand on - and apparently a convenient excuse for many hunters to not limit themselves where it does not suit them.

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Bigj I do respect all land owners, I doubt I will ever be in the situation. But until you or I are standing 5 steps from a deer on land we are not allowed; none of us really know what we would do.

It stops with common sense.

And my only wish to those who say they would not, is when or if it happens, it's a booner;) Like i said talk is cheap.

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Wow Jeff ... hit and run! :D Wanna expand on that ..... if ya come back on ... by the way .... I miss ya!!!

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If I lived somewhere that didn't allow me to retreive my game I would do something to get the law changed then this isn't an issue. I don't have that problem in Wis but if I was hunting somewhere else I wouldn't let any deer rot in the woods. Even if I was breaking the law. Thats how strongly I feel about not using the game I harvest. The anti hunting people should agree to letting you retrieve game because leaving game go to waste goes against everything they believe. I wonder if the jerk that won't let you retrieve your deer would be opposed to you entering to put out a fire or to rescuethem if they were laying under atree they just cut down?

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I ask that same question;) BTW my Grandfather of my step Dads and his uncle were the owners who did not let a soul on their land.

So I see both sides here.

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Ha! A well placed hit and run, though. PT, did you mean "expand" or "expound"?:D

Reading some of the responses on here, I'm thinking we really need September to roll around.

I really hope that I don't ever find myself in your "hypothetical" sitatuation, Tony.It's been said by others, but I don't think we know for certain what action we'll take until we're standing at that exact place at that exact time.I do everything in my power to ensure that I don't end up there. When I'm hunting private land, I've always made sure that I have the adjacent land-owners permission, in advance, to cross to retrieve a deer... even if it's not posted. It's not mine and I don't have any business there without permission. I had to cross the line twice this year to retrieve deer, and even though I had permission, I still called them to let them know I was crossing the line.

I haven't encountered a land-owner yet who said "no" to the request in advance. I know there are some out there, and when I do find one, I may not like the answer, but that's his right. I'll just hunt far enough away from the line and avoid the problem.

On a side note.... I love the way some folks seem to think that someone who doesn't thinkor feel the way that they do MUST be wrong. One comment somewhere back in the pages of this thread mentioned "card carrying tree huggers" or something like that. Funny... my wife has a sticker in her back window that says "I'm an official Card Carrying Tree Hugger", and it stays parked right next to my pickup with a Mathews decal on the left, a Rath Buck decal on the right and the words "Nock 'em Dead" in the middle. She loves venison. Not all "tree huggers" are against us.

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Shoot brotha, I hug a tree everytime I climb one to hunt, or get down. There isn't anything wrong with tree huggers. As a matter of fact, it brings a tear to my eye whenever I see a construction company clearing large tracks of land to "build our future".

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Steve .. do you Ever go 1 mile over the speed limit? I am not trying to be a wise guy, but depending on the topic, ALL people's ethics in certain areas may change due to the situation ...... BTW, I appreciate and respect your stand on this ... even if I don't take the same one ... you have been repectful on this thread as well .... and that will get people to listen to you instead of dismissing you ....

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I think intent is the mitigating factor,location is probably second & then greed rears its ugly head.

My neighbors are like a majority of todays hunters, aging is the term I'll use. Pa's rifle deer season starts on the Monday following Thanksgiving. over that weekend I can count on seeing the locals some time for beer and bragging, deer sightings and the sons & daughters that are home for the hunt.It is a great time. Thy all Talk about the same things, where their hunting,who's with them & when the chili will be done.
From the tractor sounds you can tell who has scored and from where,Hunting hereisagreat thing that I truly live for.I have the greatest of neighbors and hunting is what brings us together it certainly doesn't divide us.

For those of you that feel the need to prostitute your morals ,ethics & any little bit of self esteem you once had for a few moments of fleeting glory now called horn porn, I truly feel for you.
Maybe hunting is just not suited for you.
It really isn't very hard to see why some guyshave such a hard time finding a place to hunt.

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PT,
The only time I go 1 mile over the speed limit is when I'm accelerating to a higher-priced ticket bracket.:D I'm sure this point has been made before. I see it's application to "ethics", but in this case, it "sorta" doesn't fit. If I choose to run 75 mph in a 65 mph zone, yes, I'm breaking the law. That part is simple. I'm not, however, infringing on the rights of anyone else when Iblow bythem, am I?

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yes you're sucking to much gas[8D]
The law is the law[8D]

It just a tough call until you are standing 5 yds from your deer.

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I should have added a note to say that was a joke. Actually, I'm a slow driver... unless I'm headed to the woods or headed to the lake with the boat in tow...:D

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Doe or buck does not matter, and is bold is the way it should be, but in reality it's not.

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Some of these guys have horns screwed on old chestnut plaques that would make those at a cabala's store look like misfits. I'm not in their league yet.;)

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It does have an application here .... it's all about situation ethics ..... the guys on here that are adamant against ANYform oftresspassing at all ... I bet you could spend a few hours with them and see the situational ethics in their life ...... speeding is a good example, as most people go at least a few miles over the limit .... os breaking THAT law is ok ... but not another...

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Well then, I guess you are OK with a little stealing now and then too?

There is a big difference in actively trying to stay within legal boundaries (you try to stay the speed limit but drift over by a couple ofMPH)and knowingly ignoring the speed limit (racing your buddy at speeds over 100MPH).