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RE: Ok Ethics Police ........2 Part Question .................................................
Until you see trespassing as a crime against a specific individual and not against a society you will not see the underlying fault in your argument.
Its called private property rights and as much as you despise them they are what separates us from our European friends whom are not allowed to hunt any longer.[:-] |
RE: Ok Ethics Police ........2 Part Question .................................................
ORIGINAL: TEmbry ORIGINAL: BigJ71 ORIGINAL: TEmbry Another hypothetical question, without an emergency situation this time. Lets say you are huge into RC planes. You finally got one set-up that is top of the line, and it ran you just under $2000. Your out flying it on your land, have the same a-hole neighbor. You either mess up, run out of batteries, get caught in a wind....long story short, your $2k plane goes down 10 feet onto your neighbors land, and your borders aren't even fenced. Still going with the NEVER cross over that imaginary line? Not trying to put down your views, just trying to understand them. Personally, I'd be grabbing my plane quick, fast, and in a hurry.:D |
RE: Ok Ethics Police ........2 Part Question .................................................
ORIGINAL: Charlie P Charlie while i am getting a drink, can I hose my deer off I drug of your land too |
RE: Ok Ethics Police ........2 Part Question .................................................
ORIGINAL: TEmbry ORIGINAL: BigJ71 ORIGINAL: TEmbry Another hypothetical question, without an emergency situation this time. Lets say you are huge into RC planes. You finally got one set-up that is top of the line, and it ran you just under $2000. Your out flying it on your land, have the same a-hole neighbor. You either mess up, run out of batteries, get caught in a wind....long story short, your $2k plane goes down 10 feet onto your neighbors land, and your borders aren't even fenced. Still going with the NEVER cross over that imaginary line? Not trying to put down your views, just trying to understand them. Personally, I'd be grabbing my plane quick, fast, and in a hurry.:D I just dont understand, but its ok, that seems to happen alot:D |
RE: Ok Ethics Police ........2 Part Question .................................................
This has some good reading in it
Trespass law Although criminal and civil trespass laws vary from each jurisdiction, most have the following facets in common: [ul][*]Property owners and their agents (for example, security guards) may only use reasonable force to protect their property. For example, setting booby traps on a property to hurt trespassers or shooting at trespassers are usually strictly forbidden except in extreme circumstances.[*]Not all persons seeking access to property are trespassers. The law recognizes the rights of persons given express permission to be on the property ("invitees") and persons who have a legal right to be on the property ("licensees") not to be treated as trespassers; for example, a meter reader on the property to read the meter. A police officer or process server seeking to execute a warrant is a licensee. Someone such as a door-to-door salesman or missionary (a Jehovah's Witness or Mormon for example), would be a solicitor and not afforded the invitee exclusion to enter the private portion of the premises, and therefore be a trespasser. In a more recent case, Jehovah's Witnesses refused to get government permits to solicit door-to-door in Stratton, Ohio. In 2002, the case was heard in the U.S. Supreme Court (). The Court ruled in favor of the Jehovah's Witnesses, holding that making it a misdemeanor to engage in door-to-door advocacy without first registering with the mayor and receiving a permit violate the first Amendment as it applies to religious proselytizing, anonymous political speech, and the distribution of handbills.[1] [/ul] [ul][*]Most jurisdictions do not allow "self-help" to remove trespassers. The usual procedure is to ask the trespassing person to leave, then to call law enforcement officials if they do not. As long as the trespasser is not posing an immediate threat, they cannot be removed by force. It is usually illegal to arrest a trespasser and hold them on the property until law enforcement arrives as this defeats the purpose of allowing them to cure the trespass by leaving. A large exception to this rule are railroads in the United States and Canada, who employ their own police forces to enforce state or provincial trespassing laws. Railroad police have the ability to independently arrest and prosecute trespassers without the approval or assistance of local law enforcement. Further, in many jurisdictions, trespassing on railroad tracks is considered a very severe offense comparable to drunk driving and marijuana possession with fines that may even surpass the latter two crimes. [/ul]  [/align]A sign warning against trespassing at Mater Dei High School in New Jersey[/align][/align][/align][ul][*]Most, though not all, jurisdictions allow "Benevolent Trespassing" for extreme situations. For example, if you have a car accident and somebody is injured, you may legally force entry into an empty building to call an ambulance. Similarly, if a structure is burning, one may forcibly enter to rescue persons trapped inside. The law assumes people will make a reasonable effort to notify property owners if possible.[*]Similarly "Good Samaritan" laws take precedent over property laws where applicable. Civilians are afforded certain protection in emergencies - people cannot generally sue their would-be rescuers for breaking ribs attempting CPR, or damaging property while helping a person in need. Obviously, professionals (EMT, Doctors, etc) are held to a higher standard, even when they're not "on the clock."[*]Marking property as private property can be done in a variety of ways. The most obvious way is to put up a sign saying "No Trespassing" or "Private Property". However, a continuous fence has the same effect in most places. Many jurisdictions allow the use of markers when fencing would be impractical or expensive. For example, Ontario, Canada allows the use of red paint on landmarks such as trees to mark the boundaries of private property.[*]Property owners may allow some trespasses while excluding others. For example a sign saying just "No Hunting" could conceivably allow hiking, snowmobiling, or bird-watching, but would give notice to hunters that they would be trespassing if they entered onto the property.[*]Trespass is not limited to human beings. For example, the owner of cattle or dogs may be responsible for an animal's trespass in some jurisdictions. Further by causing an object to enter a property one can committ an act of trespass, whether it be earthworks, flood water, or objects thrown onto the property or allowed to travel onto the property.[/ul] |
RE: Situation Ethics????........2 Part Question .................................................
ORIGINAL: PreacherTony [align=left]Ok .... let's hear what you think ..... also, has either happened to you?[/align][align=left][/align][align=left][/align][align=left][/align][align=left]Scenario 1.[/align][align=left][/align][align=left]You found a great spot just 30 yards from someone else's property that you DON'T have permission to hunt ..... the biggest buck you have ever seen walks the fence line on HIS property ... he is walking slowly, stopping for 10 seconds at a time ... it is obvious he is just going to follow the fence line away from the property you hunt ..... do you shoot?[/align][align=left][/align][align=left]Scenario 2.[/align][align=left][/align][align=left]You are hunting from the same stand, the previous scenario has not happened, the same buck comes by on the property you are hunting, you drill him at 20 yards ... he runs, jumps the fence, then dies 10 yards on the other property ... again. you have been told that you will be prosecuted if the landowner ever found you on his property ...... do you get the buck? In the area you are hunting, the neighbor is great friends with the CO and there is not a law stating that he has to let you recover your deer.....[/align][align=left][/align] "– Hunt without landowners’ permission including power line, gas line, railroad and other rights-of-way. Written permission must be obtained if land is so posted." then a little later this: "– Kill or cripple game without reasonable efforts to retrieve." So, I guess I'm shooting if the deer is on my side of the fence, if the deer jumps the "fence" I'll give the old "mistermay I please getthe deer that I shot on my land andhas died on yours" routine. Kind of like when we were kids and our ball went into the "crabby old ladies" backyard, you know the one you swore was a witch. |
RE: Situation Ethics????........2 Part Question .................................................
ORIGINAL: Madjac20 ORIGINAL: PreacherTony [align=left]Ok .... let's hear what you think ..... also, has either happened to you?[/align][align=left][/align][align=left][/align][align=left][/align][align=left]Scenario 1.[/align][align=left][/align][align=left]You found a great spot just 30 yards from someone else's property that you DON'T have permission to hunt ..... the biggest buck you have ever seen walks the fence line on HIS property ... he is walking slowly, stopping for 10 seconds at a time ... it is obvious he is just going to follow the fence line away from the property you hunt ..... do you shoot?[/align][align=left][/align][align=left]Scenario 2.[/align][align=left][/align][align=left]You are hunting from the same stand, the previous scenario has not happened, the same buck comes by on the property you are hunting, you drill him at 20 yards ... he runs, jumps the fence, then dies 10 yards on the other property ... again. you have been told that you will be prosecuted if the landowner ever found you on his property ...... do you get the buck? In the area you are hunting, the neighbor is great friends with the CO and there is not a law stating that he has to let you recover your deer.....[/align][align=left][/align] [align=left]"– Hunt without landowners’ permission[/align][align=left]including power line, gas line, railroad and[/align][align=left]other rights-of-way. Written permission must[/align][align=left]be obtained if land is so posted."[/align][align=left]then a little later this:[/align][align=left]"– Kill or cripple game without reasonable[/align][align=left]efforts to retrieve."[/align][align=left][/align][align=left]So, I guess I'm shooting if the deer is on my side of the fence, if the deer jumps the "fence" I'll give the old "mistermay I please getthe deer that I shot on my land andhas died on yours" routine. Kind of like when we were kids and our ball went into the "crabby old ladies" backyard, you know the one you swore was a witch.[/align] |
RE: Situation Ethics????........2 Part Question .................................................
ORIGINAL: PreacherTony ORIGINAL: Madjac20 ORIGINAL: PreacherTony [align=left]Ok .... let's hear what you think ..... also, has either happened to you?[/align][align=left][/align][align=left][/align][align=left][/align][align=left]Scenario 1.[/align][align=left][/align][align=left]You found a great spot just 30 yards from someone else's property that you DON'T have permission to hunt ..... the biggest buck you have ever seen walks the fence line on HIS property ... he is walking slowly, stopping for 10 seconds at a time ... it is obvious he is just going to follow the fence line away from the property you hunt ..... do you shoot?[/align][align=left][/align][align=left]Scenario 2.[/align][align=left][/align][align=left]You are hunting from the same stand, the previous scenario has not happened, the same buck comes by on the property you are hunting, you drill him at 20 yards ... he runs, jumps the fence, then dies 10 yards on the other property ... again. you have been told that you will be prosecuted if the landowner ever found you on his property ...... do you get the buck? In the area you are hunting, the neighbor is great friends with the CO and there is not a law stating that he has to let you recover your deer.....[/align][align=left][/align] [align=left]"– Hunt without landowners’ permission[/align][align=left]including power line, gas line, railroad and[/align][align=left]other rights-of-way. Written permission must[/align][align=left]be obtained if land is so posted."[/align][align=left]then a little later this:[/align][align=left]"– Kill or cripple game without reasonable[/align][align=left]efforts to retrieve."[/align][align=left][/align][align=left]So, I guess I'm shooting if the deer is on my side of the fence, if the deer jumps the "fence" I'll give the old "mistermay I please getthe deer that I shot on my land andhas died on yours" routine. Kind of like when we were kids and our ball went into the "crabby old ladies" backyard, you know the one you swore was a witch.[/align] |
RE: Ok Ethics Police ........2 Part Question .................................................
ORIGINAL: PreacherTony This has some good reading in it Trespass law Although criminal and civil trespass laws vary from each jurisdiction, most have the following facets in common: [ul][*]Property owners and their agents (for example, security guards) may only use reasonable force to protect their property. For example, setting booby traps on a property to hurt trespassers or shooting at trespassers are usually strictly forbidden except in extreme circumstances.[*]Not all persons seeking access to property are trespassers. The law recognizes the rights of persons given express permission to be on the property ("invitees") and persons who have a legal right to be on the property ("licensees") not to be treated as trespassers; for example, a meter reader on the property to read the meter. A police officer or process server seeking to execute a warrant is a licensee. Someone such as a door-to-door salesman or missionary (a Jehovah's Witness or Mormon for example), would be a solicitor and not afforded the invitee exclusion to enter the private portion of the premises, and therefore be a trespasser. In a more recent case, Jehovah's Witnesses refused to get government permits to solicit door-to-door in Stratton, Ohio. In 2002, the case was heard in the U.S. Supreme Court (). The Court ruled in favor of the Jehovah's Witnesses, holding that making it a misdemeanor to engage in door-to-door advocacy without first registering with the mayor and receiving a permit violate the first Amendment as it applies to religious proselytizing, anonymous political speech, and the distribution of handbills.[1] [/ul] [ul][*]Most jurisdictions do not allow "self-help" to remove trespassers. The usual procedure is to ask the trespassing person to leave, then to call law enforcement officials if they do not. As long as the trespasser is not posing an immediate threat, they cannot be removed by force. It is usually illegal to arrest a trespasser and hold them on the property until law enforcement arrives as this defeats the purpose of allowing them to cure the trespass by leaving. A large exception to this rule are railroads in the United States and Canada, who employ their own police forces to enforce state or provincial trespassing laws. Railroad police have the ability to independently arrest and prosecute trespassers without the approval or assistance of local law enforcement. Further, in many jurisdictions, trespassing on railroad tracks is considered a very severe offense comparable to drunk driving and marijuana possession with fines that may even surpass the latter two crimes. [/ul] [/align]A sign warning against trespassing at Mater Dei High School in New Jersey [/align][/align][/align][ul][*]Most, though not all, jurisdictions allow "Benevolent Trespassing" for extreme situations. For example, if you have a car accident and somebody is injured, you may legally force entry into an empty building to call an ambulance. Similarly, if a structure is burning, one may forcibly enter to rescue persons trapped inside. The law assumes people will make a reasonable effort to notify property owners if possible.[*]Similarly "Good Samaritan" laws take precedent over property laws where applicable. Civilians are afforded certain protection in emergencies - people cannot generally sue their would-be rescuers for breaking ribs attempting CPR, or damaging property while helping a person in need. Obviously, professionals (EMT, Doctors, etc) are held to a higher standard, even when they're not "on the clock."[*]Marking property as private property can be done in a variety of ways. The most obvious way is to put up a sign saying "No Trespassing" or "Private Property". However, a continuous fence has the same effect in most places. Many jurisdictions allow the use of markers when fencing would be impractical or expensive. For example, Ontario, Canada allows the use of red paint on landmarks such as trees to mark the boundaries of private property.[*]Property owners may allow some trespasses while excluding others. For example a sign saying just "No Hunting" could conceivably allow hiking, snowmobiling, or bird-watching, but would give notice to hunters that they would be trespassing if they entered onto the property.[*]Trespass is not limited to human beings. For example, the owner of cattle or dogs may be responsible for an animal's trespass in some jurisdictions. Further by causing an object to enter a property one can committ an act of trespass, whether it be earthworks, flood water, or objects thrown onto the property or allowed to travel onto the property.[/ul] "exterior" outlet for a hour or so while I was at work, to run a drill. When I came home, he told me about it and offered 20 bucks. With that same wave of a hand, I said naw thats ok but thanks for saying you did! I didn't feel violated, I didn't think he stole from me either. Just kinda felt neighborly. Not for nuth'n, but what is the penalty for tresspess anyway, and how do you think they came to that figure? |
RE: Ok Ethics Police ........2 Part Question .................................................
Ok,
I've got a question for all of those who think it's ok to jump a fence and grab your deer even though the property is posted and you know full well the owner doesn't want you on the property..........how far is too far? I really want to know. Where do YOU draw the line? If 3 feet is ok then how about 10 yards? Where isthe point when you say "I shouldn't go there"? I really want to know. To me if your willing to go 3 yards then you might as well go all the way into the property. Do you believe the last 3 feet, 10 yards (or whatever your threshold is) of a persons property is less theirs because it just happens to butt up against the property you can be on? I really want to know where you guys draw the line and how you justify that part of the property less important or less privatethan the parts you won't go..........enlighten me. |
RE: Ok Ethics Police ........2 Part Question .................................................
BigJ71....You wrote that as a reply to me? I never said I would hop a fence, I also said, I wouldn't shoot. I did say "I" would recover that deer. It would not be left to rot, no way!
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RE: Ok Ethics Police ........2 Part Question .................................................
ORIGINAL: Goodgrief BigJ71....You wrote that as a reply to me? I never said I would hop a fence, I also said, I wouldn't shoot. I did say "I" would recover that deer. It would not be left to rot, no way! |
RE: Ok Ethics Police ........2 Part Question .................................................
I don't think it was ever stated just how far that dern thing hopped.
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RE: Ok Ethics Police ........2 Part Question .................................................
I asked a similar question back a few pages.
If you get 2 responces it will at least double mine:D Steve |
RE: Ok Ethics Police ........2 Part Question .................................................
I'd say within sight. But like I said, I would ALWAYS call before hand, and if I get rejected, call the DNR and see if he can help me. Then maybe the Local Sheriff's Office....If no one can legally help me, I would return and retrieve the deer on my own, facing the consequences if I am caught. If I couldn't see the deer from my property, I don'tknow ifI would take up after it. I'm not sure, I guess I would have to be in the situation to know for sure.
All your points are valid, andI agree with them,but they are also stretching it IMO. I see it as no different than speeding. By speeding, you are endagering the lives of others on the road, which in a way, is worse than walking onto someone's farm and retrieving a deer you shot. |
RE: Ok Ethics Police ........2 Part Question .................................................
ORIGINAL: TEmbry I'd say within sight. |
RE: Ok Ethics Police ........2 Part Question .................................................
ORIGINAL: BigJ71 ORIGINAL: TEmbry I'd say within sight. (before I get taken out back and beat, that was a joke[8D]. Some comic relief, if you will) |
RE: Ok Ethics Police ........2 Part Question .................................................
No difference, I'd just feel more comfortable about trespassing to get my deer if I KNEW it was down and where it was. I know it is legally wrong, but I would loose more sleep by leaving a deer to rot than walking across some guy's farm.
I speed, dont use crosswalks, and if the need arises, would trespass to put a dead deer to good use. Another random question, Do you have a problem with someone keeping a deer to clean it if they hit it with their truck? Against the law here, but nothing wrong with it in my eyes. I know people who have done this, and got a LOT of good meat,and kudos to them IMO. I guess I just don't view all laws and infractions as being equal, call me a hypocrit.[&:] |
RE: Ok Ethics Police ........2 Part Question .................................................
TEmbry, I don't want you to think I wasn't going to answer the rest of your question, I just wanted to keep the two points separate.
As far as the speeding is concerned, I believe (and the law does too) there is a difference. In one instance you're going a few MPH over the posted limit and you get a ticket. You're not putting anyone else in danger, you're just going over the limit. The other instance you are speeding down the road at a high rate of speed. This carries a much stiffer penalty because you are at this point putting others lives in danger. It's serious, it's stupid,it's reckless and I have no sympathy for those who get punished for doing it. Trespassing on the other hand can't be measured by a number (part of why I asked the question you so graciously answered) because there is no "scale" to go by. These laws were put into place to secure our basic rights to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness and I take them very seriously because unlike speeding there is no way to determine it's extent. If someone issnooping aroundon the fringe of your property, you have no IDEA why they're there, theycouldbe looking for a dead deer....they could be looking to do you harm.Trespassing laws protect an INDIVIDUAL person and allows them the right to take as many measures as the law allows to be secure on their property and dwelling. Big difference. |
RE: Ok Ethics Police ........2 Part Question .................................................
ORIGINAL: BigJ71 Trespassing laws protect an INDIVIDUAL person Im out, you make solid points, half of whichI agree with,but I personally dont see it the exact same way. Idk if I could deal with leaving a deer to rot that I can see laying within sight.[&:] |
RE: Ok Ethics Police ........2 Part Question .................................................
ORIGINAL: TEmbry Another random question, Do you have a problem with someone keeping a deer to clean it if they hit it with their truck? Against the law here, but nothing wrong with it in my eyes. I know people who have done this, and got a LOT of good meat,and kudos to them IMO. I guess I just don't view all laws and infractions as being equal, call me a hypocrit.[&:] I can tell you one thing for sure.....if I was in a state that didn't allow it (like yours) I sure as hell wouldn't keep it anyway. Again, if you don't like the laws, do something about it, don't just break them. BTW, I don't think you're a hypocrite, I just think you need to put some serious thought to a law that up until now you felt wasn't as important as it is. Trespassing is serious, it cuts to the core of our civil rights we cherish as a free nation. |
RE: Ok Ethics Police ........2 Part Question .................................................
ORIGINAL: TEmbry ORIGINAL: BigJ71 Trespassing laws protect an INDIVIDUAL person Im out, you make solid points, half of whichI agree with,but I personally dont see it the exact same way. Idk if I could deal with leaving a deer to rot that I can see laying within sight.[&:] |
RE: Ok Ethics Police ........2 Part Question .................................................
ORIGINAL: BigJ71 Trespassing is serious, it cuts to the core of our civil rights we cherish as a free nation. |
RE: Ok Ethics Police ........2 Part Question .................................................
ORIGINAL: PreacherTony ORIGINAL: SteveBNy PT - thank you - discussions go much further when kept civil. Little Chief pretty much mirrored my thoughts. Just playin LC [:-] [blockquote]quote: ORIGINAL: BigJ71 Trespassing is serious, it cuts to the core of our civil rights we cherish as a free nation. [/blockquote] How so, John ... please elaborate. :eek:...... I'm not for trespassing .. but I'm not for being a douche bag land owner, either..... he is stopping my right for liberty and the pursuit of hapiness by not letting me get my deer that ran on his land ;)..... Sorry. I can't go there. Since when does a "deer" deserve more respect than our fellow man?Since when do our "wants" or "desires" make it right to violate the rights of our neighbors? You may not agree with the views of your neighbor,... they may even offend you.... but does he not still deserve your respect? Some might argue that with the current state of humanity, a "deer" just may deserve more respect than a human. I disagree... wholeheartedly.If we can't learn to respect each other, treat each other in a dignified manner and respect, and for some of us, even fight for the rights of others, what hope is there for us? Well, my opinions don't amount to much, I suppose. There's just too much selfishness in the world. Too much me, me, me and mine, mine, mine. Too much of an "I'll take what I want because I can" attitude. Folks, you wanna know what's wrong with the world? All we have to do is take a good hard look at ourselves. |
RE: Ok Ethics Police ........2 Part Question .................................................
Just so some of you don't get in over your heads most trespass laws seem lax but here in PA you can really regret a moment of hast.
Trespassing is a civil case brought to court by one man against another. If land is posted and you go ask permission to enter and are told no do not enter, and you say piss on that guy and go any way.now you have committed aggravated trespass in this case you now are prosecuted as a criminal.And if in your state of rage you say some thing foolish about harmingsaid land owner you will also be charged with making terroristic threats. You are now into class 3 felony's ,and for you slow learners that means you will,never vote again,forfeit your right to ever own a gun,forfeit the guns you presently own,forfeit any military service,federal school loan programs and those are just a few of the things that your moments of foolishness will cost you. Is it worth it to you? |
RE: Ok Ethics Police ........2 Part Question .................................................
ORIGINAL: LittleChief Well, my opinions don't amount to much, I suppose. There's just too much selfishness in the world. Too much me, me, me and mine, mine, mine. Too much of an "I'll take what I want because I can" attitude. Folks, you wanna know what's wrong with the world? All we have to do is take a good hard look at ourselves. I agree humans are far more important than a deer, but you aren't harming humans in this process and you are in a way harming or doing a disservice to the deer.Honestly, what is it really hurting if you do go get that deer? but i don't like this last statement quoted above...How is the hunter in this situation being any more selfish than the a-hole neighbor? Both are in the wrong, IMO. Just a note, I've never even hita deer with mytruck BigJ...but i was thinking about it, and I believe you could take one out if simply riding a bicycle.:D[8D] |
RE: Ok Ethics Police ........2 Part Question .................................................
ORIGINAL: bawanajim Just so some of you don't get in over your heads most trespass laws seem lax but here in PA you can really regret a moment of hast. Trespassing is a civil case brought to court by one man against another. If land is posted and you go ask permission to enter and are told no do not enter, and you say piss on that guy and go any way.now you have committed aggravated trespass in this case you now are prosecuted as a criminal.And if in your state of rage you say some thing foolish about harmingsaid land owner you will also be charged with making terroristic threats. You are now into class 3 felony's ,and for you slow learners that means you will,never vote again,forfeit your right to ever own a gun,forfeit the guns you presently own,forfeit any military service,federal school loan programs and those are just a few of the things that your moments of foolishness will cost you. Is it worth it to you? Say your speeding down the road. The cop pulls you over, but you say piss on him and keep speeding anyway. You eventually get stopped, and in your state of rage you say something foolish about harming said police officer. Now your charged with alot more than just a speeding ticket as well. Any minor infraction can turn into a huge ordeal, if you allow/cause it to. |
RE: Ok Ethics Police ........2 Part Question .................................................
Go back and read how many said they would go anyway.
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RE: Ok Ethics Police ........2 Part Question .................................................
ORIGINAL: bawanajim Go back and read how many said they would go anyway. Your points are right, i just dont think that ours are wrong. |
RE: Ok Ethics Police ........2 Part Question .................................................
ORIGINAL: bawanajim Go back and read how many said they would go anyway. |
RE: Ok Ethics Police ........2 Part Question .................................................
23 pages of debate, who has changed their minds, really curious.
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RE: Ok Ethics Police ........2 Part Question .................................................
but leaving a case of Milwaukee Best for you:D |
RE: Ok Ethics Police ........2 Part Question .................................................
ORIGINAL: MN/Kyle 23 pages of debate, who has changed their minds, really curious. |
RE: Ok Ethics Police ........2 Part Question .................................................
who has changed their minds, really curious. Now I want to invent a hover craft that can pick up a deer.;) |
RE: Ok Ethics Police ........2 Part Question .................................................
ORIGINAL: Germ ORIGINAL: bawanajim Go back and read how many said they would go anyway. |
RE: Ok Ethics Police ........2 Part Question .................................................
ORIGINAL: bawanajim ORIGINAL: Germ ORIGINAL: bawanajim Go back and read how many said they would go anyway. I am currently re-thinking my position |
RE: Ok Ethics Police ........2 Part Question .................................................
ORIGINAL: TEmbry I agree humans are far more important than a deer, but you aren't harming humans in this process and you are in a way harming or doing a disservice to the deer.Honestly, what is it really hurting if you do go get that deer? but i don't like this last statement quoted above...How is the hunter in this situation being any more selfish than the a-hole neighbor? Both are in the wrong, IMO. Just to clarify, the lastlittle paragraphI wrotewasn't aimed at hunters who would cross a fence. I ended my thoughts on this specific topic in the paragraph above that.The last statmentwas aimed at what seems to be becoming the main-stream train of thought.... at Americain general. I'm only 44, but I remember a time and a place where you could count on a total stranger to render assistance to someone in need. People waved "hello" to total strangers they met on the highway. I joined the Navy in 1981 when I was 17. Now, I've seen more of the world than I haven't seen, and I've never seen anything to change my feelings thatwe, as Americans, are the luckiest people in the world. We have rights and freedoms that people in so many other countries can't begin to fathom, and so many Americans take them for granted,take advantage of them or just generally spit on them. In direct response to your question, the "a-hole" neighbor may be just that, but he has the "right" to do as he chooses. He has the "right" to just be an "a-hole" if he wants. Neo-Nazi's demonstrate and spread a message of hate and intolerance, but the Supreme court says it's their "right". Groups burn our flag, but somehow, it's thier "right" I could go on and on, but there's no need.These views, like many others, turn my stomach. There are thousands who wouldn't agree with the land-owner who is enough of a jerk to refuse access in this case, but who are willing to die fighting to protect his right to do so. What's the hunter in this case hurting? In my opinion, he's only hurting himself. If you can reason that out, good. If you can't, well, that's good too. It's just my opinion. It's not right or wrong. |
RE: Ok Ethics Police ........2 Part Question .................................................
Actually, the second situation is not tresspassing. A hunter has the legal right to recover their game. The landowner has no legal right to prevent them from doing that...call the cops, I will wait. haha.
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RE: Ok Ethics Police ........2 Part Question .................................................
Just out of curisoity, how many folks know of specific cases where someone was arrested and really had the book thrown at them for going ten feet onto someone else's property to retrieve a deer? Not trying to start an argument, I would just like to know how often something like that actually happens.
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RE: Ok Ethics Police ........2 Part Question .................................................
ORIGINAL: huntbigb Actually, the second situation is not tresspassing. A hunter has the legal right to recover their game. The landowner has no legal right to prevent them from doing that...call the cops, I will wait. haha. |
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