atlasman

Mathews has done nothing of notice for a few years now......slim limbs I guess being the significant offering

Bowtech split their riser but that quickly lost steam and isn't even the focus of their line anymore. This year they rehashed old stuff like roller cable guards and STS knock offs. They have lived on speed from day one but many bows now are as fast or faster with equal or better brace heights.

Hoyt peaked and grabbed huge attention with the cam 1/2 but have seemed to tread water the last couple being good at everything but great at nothing IMO......this year seems no different.

PSE and HCA have both made the big speed push lately and IMO are pushing the envelope with products now carrying warranties at below 5 gpp.........I HIGHLY doubt they would do that if they thought rigs would be blowing up in people's faces. They are questioning long standing archery dogma........and I'm sure others are watching VERY closely.

Elite.........as most know is the former designer of Bowtech who left and married Martin's daughter......so plenty of archery money and know how was combined with a cutting edge mind. They are putting out some amazing bows as far as speed and looks go and are the next company that will "pop" IMO......they are off to a fine start.

Ross is a great solid performing bow and it looks great........but I think they need to do more then that to stand out in the crowd today.


I guess PSE and HCA get my vote for the courage to venture out into the deep end of the pool while everyone else seems happy to stay in the shallow end and keep recycling the same old toys year after year.

GMMAT

To me it's a no-brainer. Bowtech has been around since (I think) '99. If they haven't made leaps in bounds in that time...I don't know who has. And....the design you say they went away from was a BIG deal, to me. I AGREE that they seemingly have moved away a "little" from it (with the exception of the addition of the General). But...they know the have to cater to their speed demon "base".

I agree with everything you wrote for the most part.......but I think these "other guys" have a long way to go to break the top tier of bow companies threshold. I don't see PSE in that mix. I see Mathews there on: 1. Being a good profuct and 2. name and brand recognition. Hoyt, in my opinion, is falling by the wayside. It really, to me, looks like old technology. If you're "hoyt guy"....I'm sure they're catering to you, just fine. I hope their base stays loyal.....for their sake.

But to look at what Bowtech has done in a mere 8 years.....and even with what they are doing last year (Guardian, Commander) and this year (101s and 82nd speed bows)....and saying they're hanging out in the shallow end........

I just disagree (respectfully).

Perception. We just have a different perception.

Hunter Dan7

i have to say that Mathews makes some outstanding bows but what have they changed. PSE made the X-Force with those really curved limbs that look tarible(IMO). Ross has just got the standared compound bow with the string catcher buty it really is a nice bow. If you look at the last 8 like gmmat said, i would think that bowtech has (went out on a edge) to try to find newer and better things. My vote is for bowtech.

atlasman

If I wanted to know about the last 8 years I would have asked that.


They are moving away from the split riser already and this year they offered nothing but rehashed old technology (roller guard and STS copy). If anything they took a step backwards and recreated a 2008 version of the Patriot (which was the speed burner of its day).

I love my Bowtech (2003 Patriot)........so much so that IMO they have yet to make a better bow. They USED to be untouchable in the speed department but now many bows have caught and/or passed them..........with their speed no longer unmatched I don't see anything else in the 2008 lineup that could even be considered "new" technology...........let alone the leading edge.


I wonder if R+D departments are finding out that it's more profitable to follow rather then lead...........because most companies seem to be on idle right now.

GMMAT

Hey...this is just a discussion....but I don't see this. They introduced a new bow (along the lines of this technology) in the General, this year....that will (in my opinion) take over a HUGE chunk of the hunting market in a just a few years. I've seen it happen in the shop I shoot at.....someone comes in to shoot the "new" bows.....shoots a (_________) brand and then the General.....and whetehr they buy one or not, the General gets their attention.

PSE has gotten to the speeds at a price. Have you shot one?

You may have a point.....but where do you go from 340fps+? And the Guardian/Commander split limb technology is still new (IMO)....and still "fresh". The difference in the HCA and the Bowtech isn't that the HCA is a faster bow. It's that they're willing to warrant their limbs for a lighter arrow.

I am also one (admittedly) who doesn't need to have an earth-shattering technological breakthrough to pull the buying trigger. Hell....I buy 'em because it's fun to have a new bow.

I thin all the big name bow companies have probably done wonders for each other. I just see one doing more (all-around).

I do wonder what the next "breakthrough" will be

loogout1

In just about every industry, there comes a point when everyone is saying,"How much better could it get?" I pretty much am at that point right now with archery. I would think, because of its primitiveness, that it would have a point where it cant get any better. How much faster can we get a specific weight arrow to go? How much lighter do you want your arrows to be(hunting situations)? How much smoother and shock free can you make a bow? There will be a point where we will have topped out. The question to ourselves is,"How much easier do you want it for yourself." And I'm not saying its easy, so dont jump all over me. I'm just saying we bowhunt because we like the challenge, when do we start cheating ourselves out of that challenge?

Buck Magnet

I know where you are comming from Atlas and I agree. I am a diehard BowTech fan (have been since I first layed my hands on Big Johns personal Patriot SC), but they really didn't come out with anything "innovative" this year, last year...yes, this year... not so much. They pretty much just refined their line-up, but if you look around at the rest of the bow companies, nobody really did anything that was ground breaking this year. HCA has been pushing the speed aspect for a few years now and them warranting their bows to less than 5 gpp isn't new, they have been trying this for a few years. PSE did move into a new direction, but their major set-back is that their design isn't what is typically associated with the parrallel limb bows. The major set-back that I see for them is simply their name. They have and probably always will be known as a "cheap" bow company, and the prices that they expect for their top end bows is around $100-$150 more than bows that have more marketable names (BowTech, Hoyt, Mathews, ect). If somebody asked you what type of bow you had and you said a PSE, then they asked you what you paid for it and you said, $949.99 bare bow, that person will probablly laugh at you.

Elite really isn't innovative either, yes they are a new company, but their design is going to be associated with the BowTechs simply because of the owner and the fact that he is using the same ideas he did for BowTech to make Elite. Take a Elite and a BowTech, spray paint them flat black and ask 50 regular archers what type of bow they are andI would be willing to bet that 45 of them would answer BowTech.

Ross could possibly be the next company to break out with a "must have" bow, but IMO they would have to inscrease the speed compared to what they have now.

Hoyt and Mathews are both treading the water but neither company really is endanger of loosing any business. Their fan base is large and so well established that they really don't need to spend the extra money trying to make some ground breaking product every year. For the most part, Hoyt owners will always buy new Hoyts and Mathews owners will always buy new Mathews no matter just how much or little of an improvement their is in the product!

It seems that all bow companies have hit a wall for now. They have hit the point where they have maximized their designs to get the most performance while still maintaining the great shootability of the bow. This has happened before, take a look at some of the bows before Hoyt came out with the Tec Riser and Cam and a Half, and before Mathews came out with the parrallel limb bows, the market was in more of a standstill each year. The past 5 or 6 years companies have been pumping out new idea after new idea and it seems as though they are start to run out of ways to revolutionize the compound bow. Give it a few years and something will come out that will truly rock the bow market and all these designs will change again.

Rob/PA Bowyer

What else can be done that would be "acceptable" in the archery industry. If too much is "innovated" it's shunned. Take that little bow (Liberty) without a riser, not setting the world on fire in sales but truly innovated.

Arthur P

I kinda think the technology leader would be the one who's doing the technology I like. And that would be BowTech, specifically the center pivot limb design.

Frankly, there isn't much room for 'innovation' that hasn't been tried before. Single cams had been around long before Mathews, for instance. Mathews is using old Bear technology like the roller guide and string stops. Hoyt is using old Darton cams on a spin-off of an old Martin riser. Even the hot 'new' parallel limb designs harken back to the old 34" a-t-abow from Rigid in the 70's.

The old designs usually didn't work with the materials available at the time, or were ideas that archers of the day looked at and called 'BS' on 'em. Now we have improved materials that make those old innovations feasible.Also there isa younger generation of shooters that don't remember those old designs, have a thirst for stuff that's new and different and aren't so careful with how they spend their money as the old timers were. So the companies can recycle the old ideas with new materials and market them as fresh new innovations. They make money, the shooters have their new toys and everybody's happy.

All the while there is someone sitting back, thinking to themselves... SUCKERS! [8D]

Germ

Arthur

The exact reason I shoot a ROSS, I know they are not the "in" bow. They are well built, fast enough, accurate(very), quiet, and tough as hell.

I could care less if my arrow goes 260 fps or 300 fps. As long as it hits where I Aim. Looks is another one I love. My bow "looks" mean, LOL