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Muzzleloader against Centerfire Rifle!!!

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Muzzleloader against Centerfire Rifle!!!

Old 02-18-2017, 09:41 AM
  #11  
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My preferred and always attempted POI on game is a heart shot. I've flattened them on the spot with muzzleloaders, shotgun slugs, CF rifles and pistols. I've also had them with the heart blown completely in 1/2 run up to 100yds, with all the above mentioned firearms.
I do everything possible to avoid higher body shots through the lungs. I want two holes low in the body to promote, if needed, the best blood trail possible.
Place that shot correctly and you can kill them with a marble. I also believe it can depend on the alertness of the animal at the time. In general, an animal completely relaxed will drop much faster than an alert animal.
One of my earliest bucks shot with a recurve bow, was completely unaware of me or any other danger. He was feeding just outside the woods in a grass field. The arrow took him through the lungs and stuck out both is sides. He jumped straight up in the air and when he came back down, just looked around. Then he walked a short distance in circles and just laid down. Never knew he'd been shot.
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Old 02-18-2017, 09:48 AM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by cayugad View Post
The Leigh copper bullet I must admit interests me also. I always was a fan of the Barnes Copper bullets. The testing I did with them and a Black Diamond XR was to say the least spectacular in the devastation department and the hold together and deform perfect department. One reason I hunted for years with my Knight LK rifle and a Barnes MZ Expander. I just wish the deer had cooperated.

Are these new copper bullets heavy weight or light weight? I will be watching for your updates on it.

As for your topic of center fire VS muzzleloader, I have had deer drop in their tracks from Center Fires. Both the 30-06 and the 7mm Remington Magnum has planted a lot of deer. But it was all shot placement. I used to do a lot of neck shooting when young. But as the distances got longer, I changed to center mass shooting. Although I have still dropped them there too.

With a muzzleloader, I have never taken a deer yet with a sabot. Every time I hunt with one, I never see anything to shoot. But I have shot a large number of deer with round ball, and conical. And most of them were a bang flop.
Right now the Copper Lehigh bullet is Heavy. The only one I've seen right now is 265grn. I'm hoping for a lighter .452 around 240 or 245grn bullet. Mainly just for Elk. For Deer I'm hoping a .40 190 to 200grn bullet. I'm sure he will make a .40 higher BC bullet for the fast twist 45's in the 225 to 240grn weight range.

As far as Barnes in Muzzleloaders, Barnes knows themselves the MZ Expander is by far the most lethal bullet they got for a ML. The guys that use others truly do got to worry about shot placement or the ideal shot. In my hunting world, everything is far from perfect, that's why I use the best bullet I can use. But knowing what I know today, the MZ Expander would be my second choice bullet today.
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Old 02-18-2017, 09:49 AM
  #13  
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Talk Lehigh into making a .310" bullet. This is for a 7.62x54 round. A big time popular rifle, but NO aftermarket bullets for reloading unless you use a terrible fitting .308"
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Old 02-18-2017, 09:56 AM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by BarnesAddict View Post
My preferred and always attempted POI on game is a heart shot. I've flattened them on the spot with muzzleloaders, shotgun slugs, CF rifles and pistols. I've also had them with the heart blown completely in 1/2 run up to 100yds, with all the above mentioned firearms.
I do everything possible to avoid higher body shots through the lungs. I want two holes low in the body to promote, if needed, the best blood trail possible.
Place that shot correctly and you can kill them with a marble. I also believe it can depend on the alertness of the animal at the time. In general, an animal completely relaxed will drop much faster than an alert animal.
One of my earliest bucks shot with a recurve bow, was completely unaware of me or any other danger. He was feeding just outside the woods in a grass field. The arrow took him through the lungs and stuck out both is sides. He jumped straight up in the air and when he came back down, just looked around. Then he walked a short distance in circles and just laid down. Never knew he'd been shot.
Speaking of Bows I've been playing around with different broad heads. To date nothing I've tried kills like a 2 blade rage. I've not had a Deer go past 40 yards with one. I understand mechanical broadheads aren't so good for shoulder shots, but I don't shoot there.

I'm also playing around with 22 shells. Really trying to get a handle on sonic and sub sonic ammo. Just haven't came to a good conclusion yet. But sonic 22 ammo dropping to sub sonic doesn't make sense to me. Right now I'm leaning towards sub sonic but still playing around with them.
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Old 02-18-2017, 09:59 AM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by MountainDevil54 View Post
Talk Lehigh into making a .310" bullet. This is for a 7.62x54 round. A big time popular rifle, but NO aftermarket bullets for reloading unless you use a terrible fitting .308"
http://www.lehighdefense.com/collections/bullets/products/311-high-velocity-controlled-chaos-copper-123gr-bullet?variant=17037720260
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Old 02-18-2017, 10:12 AM
  #16  
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not sure if that 123gr bullet would do well in the 7.62x54 especially for larger game like elk. Right now, factory russian FMJ is 147 grain.

That's perfect for the AK47s however.
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Old 02-18-2017, 10:21 AM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by MountainDevil54 View Post
Talk Lehigh into making a .310" bullet. This is for a 7.62x54 round. A big time popular rifle, but NO aftermarket bullets for reloading unless you use a terrible fitting .308"
????? All kinds of .310 bullets out there. You use the same bullet in the x54 that you do for the x39, .310. I am assuming by popular you mean those with Mosins? x39 is vastly more popular than the x54's. Same bullet just different case length. Hornady and Barnes both make several versions of the .310 bullet. Sierra has a few.

Try slugging your barrel MD and see what you come up with. You may be surprised to find your barrel may be as much as .312! Lotta Mosins out there that just don't have consistent sizing of the barrels. Lehigh does make a .311 Controlled Fracturing 123 grain bullet. A .311 may just tighten your groups up as well.
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Old 02-18-2017, 10:28 AM
  #18  
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.311 would be tight in both mosins. The 123gr bullet is a little on the light side for elk hunting.
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Old 02-18-2017, 12:35 PM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by Grouse45 View Post
Thanks for the replys guys. But shame on me for not being more specific. I'm not talking about neck or shoulder shots. I'm talking strictly behind the shoulders and back.
So am I Grouse. I never shoot for the shoulder and rarely in the neck. I'm talking behind the shoulder taking out both lungs. The hydrostatic shock from the .243 (100 gr bullet) and the 270 (130 gr) causes dramatic tissue damage. I hit a buck coming straight on with the 270 once and drove him straight back on his butt and he never got up.
I guess you can say I've been extremely lucky. My friend, who swears by his 30-06 and shoulder shots, almost always has his deer run off, even if only for a short distance. I make fun of him too because we hunt a lot in the strip mines and his deer usually find their way to the bottom of one nearby.

Last edited by bronko22000; 02-18-2017 at 12:40 PM.
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Old 02-22-2017, 03:25 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by Grouse45 View Post
Speaking of Bows I've been playing around with different broad heads. To date nothing I've tried kills like a 2 blade rage. I've not had a Deer go past 40 yards with one. I understand mechanical broadheads aren't so good for shoulder shots, but I don't shoot there.

.
Same here, when I first started bow hunting I shot a little deer with a schwacker and it worked good. Then I tried Montec CS, horrible blood trail and didn't like the opening, switched to Rage chisel tip 2 blade and only one Doe did I have to do a follow up shot on and it was my fault for shooting at 40 yards and I didn't stop her but it opened her up and she would have died from 1 lung and liver if she wouldn't have walked back to me. I switched last year to Magnus buzz cut 2 blade and I shot 2 deer with them but with horrible blood trails, so its back to 2 blade rage. I'm not sure how it will do on a shoulder shot as I haven't hit one there but I'm impressed with them. I'm shooting 70lbs at 27" draw with 27" Aluminum arrows.

The two deer I shot with my muzzleloader this year one dropped in sight but I spined and must have gotten lung as he dropped and tried to get up then expired within 30 seconds from the shot. The next one I shot was shoulder shot, slight quartering to me and she ran off about 50 yards and died. Bullet went in her left front shoulder and didn't exit, but made it under her hide behind her shoulder but the bullet was just a copper base with one petal. The exit was about a 1 inch long gash about the size of a pencil. Hornady SST 300 grain

All my cf kills have dropped them in their tracks .300 winmag shooting either SST 180 grain or 180?? Nosler partition. I did shoot one with a Barnes 200 grain bullet. All hand loads though.
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